AR Sponsor
Posted: 11/27/2008 10:08:13 AM EDT
| I went out shooting today with some family. They all wanted to shoot my AR so I let them. One of the guys seemed pretty competent and knew what he was doing so I let him shoot it. I had just finished a mag and the bolt was in the back position ready for another mag to be inserted. I assumed (yeah, I know) that he knew what he was doing but before I could stop him he put the mag in, and then went to pull back on the charging handle. I guess he didn't know about the bolt release on the side. (I know I know, my bad) So, I watched in horror as he pulled the charging handle back and it kinda slid out very awkwardly because it was obviously not pulling the bolt back with it. Is that something kinda minor or should I crap myself about it? |
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No harm done.
If the bolt is locked to the rear, and you insert a mag, then pull back on the CH, it will simply release the bolt. If the CH is then released, the weapon will load the first round. Not the standard way to load the weapon, but it won’t hurt anything either. |
| I don't know if i'm making my self completely clear. The bolt was locked in back position. Everything normal there. He went to pull the CH and it almost felt as though it was going to come sliding all the way off. (I know it felt weird because I did it again myself to see what was going on mechanically.) Anyways, the bolt stayed in the same exact place the whole time. The charging handle was able to move in and out and it felt loose. |
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I don't know if i'm making my self completely clear. The bolt was locked in back position. Everything normal there. He went to pull the CH and it almost felt as though it was going to come sliding all the way off. (I know it felt weird because I did it again myself to see what was going on mechanically.) Anyways, the bolt stayed in the same exact place the whole time. The charging handle was able to move in and out and it felt loose. Thats the way it will feel untill you get to the bcg. Like QUIB said you didn't pull it far enough back to release the bcg. |
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I don't know if i'm making my self completely clear. The bolt was locked in back position. Everything normal there. He went to pull the CH and it almost felt as though it was going to come sliding all the way off. (I know it felt weird because I did it again myself to see what was going on mechanically.) Anyways, the bolt stayed in the same exact place the whole time. The charging handle was able to move in and out and it felt loose. How many times do you have to be told the same thing? Normal. Not under spring tension. Its like that. Pull all the way back till there is tension then another fraction of an inch oce you get spring pressure. This drops the bolt release as its held up by tension/friction. Release bolt and it is just like manually charging on the first round. If you pull back far enough you get the tension of the bolt pressing on the carrier and action spring. Untill you reach that point you get no resistance... it does not have its own spring. |
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I don't know if i'm making my self completely clear. The bolt was locked in back position. Everything normal there. He went to pull the CH and it almost felt as though it was going to come sliding all the way off. (I know it felt weird because I did it again myself to see what was going on mechanically.) Anyways, the bolt stayed in the same exact place the whole time. The charging handle was able to move in and out and it felt loose. This is normal. If the bolt is locked to the rear, and you release the CH it will slide out and wobble around. This is perfectly normal. Take your empty rifle right now and pull back on the charging handle and hold it to the rear. Now push in on the bolt catch, locking the bolt to the rear. The condition the CH is in right now, is normal. Now pull back on the CH and hold it to the rear. Observe the bolt catch, it should have dropped down out of the way, allowing you to ride the bolt forward into battery. |
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I understand what you are asking, and all is well.
When the bolt is locked back, and you release the latch on the charging handle, it will be loose and feel wobbly. That is completely normal. If you pull it back completely, until you compress the recoil spring slightly, and you have a loaded mag in the well or no mag at all, the bolt catch will release, and you can ease the bolt forward. Not recommended for chambering a new cartridge unless you want to get a feel for the forward assist, but completely normal. |
| To reitterate how the bolt hold open works. After the last round is fired the carrier cycles back and the follower comes up. It presses on the bolt hold open/bolt release and lifts it while the carrier is back and out of the way. The carrier comes forward and holds the bolt release under tension friction. You can now remove the mag and it wont fall because of the friction held by the carrier holding it in place with pressure from the action spring. If you push the bolt release you are manually overcoming the friction. If you pull back AT ALL on the charging handle (enough to actually get that loop on the handle to grab the gas key) you remove the friction and if you have a loaded mag or no mag it will let the bolt relase fall down. It will ONLY stay in place if the empty mags follwer is manually pushing it up at that time. |
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Is this a joke?  I don’t think so. We’ve seen a large boost in new memberships here since the news of Obama. Many folks are buying their first AR in anticipation of a future ban. With this boost in new memberships we’ll also see a boost in basic questions that we’ve all seen hundreds of times over in the past. We must have patience with these new members and their questions. It’s easy to forget, whether you received your initial weapons training through the military, or are trying to learn from others here on ARFCOM, we ALL had to start out somewhere at sometime. 
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I know. At least the Stag came with the -10 manual. Kept it in the bathroom for a few days before going to the range for the first time and it probably kept me from typing 100 help threads... 
Still makes me nuts all the threads that would never happen if somoene actually read their manuals or made a single effort to read an FAQ or search first. |
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I know. At least the Stag came with the -10 manual. Kept it in the bathroom for a few days before going to the range for the first time and it probably kept me from typing 100 help threads... 
Well now’s your time to pass that info along. Next time you see a similar thread, suggest getting an Operators Manual to the OP, as I did above. 
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Still makes me nuts all the threads that would never happen if somoene actually read their manuals or made a single effort to read an FAQ or search first. Well, you have two options: 1) Ignore the post and scroll on to something else. Or...... 2) Offer to help out regardless of how mundane and redundant it becomes. |
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.he put the mag in, and then went to pull back on the charging handle. .? IMHO that's the preffered method as it's a gross motor skill and the same motion you use when loading on a closed bolt or clearing a malfunction. Pull the charging handle all the way to the rear and let it go. |
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.he put the mag in, and then went to pull back on the charging handle. .? IMHO that's the preffered method as it's a gross motor skill and the same motion you use when loading on a closed bolt or clearing a malfunction. Pull the charging handle all the way to the rear and let it go. |
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Well I learned tons. Thank you all so much for your help. I appreciate your patience and all of your help. Yes, Quib was right, I am pretty new to all of this. I don't have a manual or I would have gone straight to that. My friend helped me build the rifle a few months back cuz i knew that Obama was going to get into office. I'm been around guns my whole life but didn't have any experience with the AR platform until now. I always wanted one but could never afford one. Since my friend helped me build it, I got a pretty sweet deal.
Once again. Thanks for all your help and thanks to those that were patient with me. |
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Quoted: I don't have a manual or I would have gone straight to that. You do now. Go to the link below, and download: FM 23-9 TM 9-1005-319-10 TM 9-1005-319-23 http://www.ar15.com/content/index.html#manuals |
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I don't know if i'm making my self completely clear. The bolt was locked in back position. Everything normal there. He went to pull the CH and it almost felt as though it was going to come sliding all the way off. (I know it felt weird because I did it again myself to see what was going on mechanically.) Anyways, the bolt stayed in the same exact place the whole time. The charging handle was able to move in and out and it felt loose. Ok, when the bolt is locked into the rear position, the charging handle has no spring tension on it, so to speak. When the bolt is foward, and you pull the charging handle rearward, the tension on the charging handle is due to the tension from the buffer spring. The front of the charging handle is coupled to the carrier gas key. So as the BCG moves rearward the spring tension increases. So if the bolt is locked to the rear, the charging handle can now move arround freely. There is nothing for the charging handle to grab onto so to speak. Your friend did nothing wrong, nor is anything wrong or is broken on your AR15. Some people actually prefer to use the CH to load the weapon vs the bolt catch " slap " method. Kinda like a handgun with a slide stop, pulling the charging handle gives you more spring tension ensuring more reliable loading. YMMV |
| I suggest taking your rifle apart and looking at how all the parts work together and interact with each other. After playing with my rifle for about 2 days, I had learned alot and gained a very good understanding of how the rifle functions. Its really interesting too! Good luck and welcome. |
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I don't know if i'm making my self completely clear. The bolt was locked in back position. Everything normal there. He went to pull the CH and it almost felt as though it was going to come sliding all the way off. (I know it felt weird because I did it again myself to see what was going on mechanically.) Anyways, the bolt stayed in the same exact place the whole time. The charging handle was able to move in and out and it felt loose. Ok, when the bolt is locked into the rear position, the charging handle has no spring tension on it, so to speak. When the bolt is foward, and you pull the charging handle rearward, the tension on the charging handle is due to the tension from the buffer spring. The front of the charging handle is coupled to the carrier gas key. So as the BCG moves rearward the spring tension increases. So if the bolt is locked to the rear, the charging handle can now move arround freely. There is nothing for the charging handle to grab onto so to speak. Your friend did nothing wrong, nor is anything wrong or is broken on your AR15. Some people actually prefer to use the CH to load the weapon vs the bolt catch " slap " method. Kinda like a handgun with a slide stop, pulling the charging handle gives you more spring tension ensuring more reliable loading. YMMV +1 ....nothing at all wrong with your gun...As previously mentioned per Stonerriflefan and QUIB, with the bolt locked back, if you pull the CH it WILL feel loose and if you pull it back far enough it WILL release the bolt......THAT BEING SAID, I WILL TAKE THE GUN OFF YOUR HANDS AND PAY SHIPPING IF YOU DON'T FEEL IT'S SAFE
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Is this a joke? I don’t think so. We’ve seen a large boost in new memberships here since the news of Obama. Many folks are buying their first AR in anticipation of a future ban. With this boost in new memberships we’ll also see a boost in basic questions that we’ve all seen hundreds of times over in the past. We must have patience with these new members and their questions. It’s easy to forget, whether you received your initial weapons training through the military, or are trying to learn from others here on ARFCOM, we ALL had to start out somewhere at sometime. Good post, Quib....and a reminder to us all that we were newbies once ourselves. |
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.he put the mag in, and then went to pull back on the charging handle. .? IMHO that's the preffered method as it's a gross motor skill and the same motion you use when loading on a closed bolt or clearing a malfunction. Pull the charging handle all the way to the rear and let it go. It's also easier if your a lefty. |
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I don't know if i'm making my self completely clear. The bolt was locked in back position. Everything normal there. He went to pull the CH and it almost felt as though it was going to come sliding all the way off. (I know it felt weird because I did it again myself to see what was going on mechanically.) Anyways, the bolt stayed in the same exact place the whole time. The charging handle was able to move in and out and it felt loose. Ok, when the bolt is locked into the rear position, the charging handle has no spring tension on it, so to speak. When the bolt is foward, and you pull the charging handle rearward, the tension on the charging handle is due to the tension from the buffer spring. The front of the charging handle is coupled to the carrier gas key. So as the BCG moves rearward the spring tension increases. So if the bolt is locked to the rear, the charging handle can now move arround freely. There is nothing for the charging handle to grab onto so to speak. Your friend did nothing wrong, nor is anything wrong or is broken on your AR15. Some people actually prefer to use the CH to load the weapon vs the bolt catch " slap " method. Kinda like a handgun with a slide stop, pulling the charging handle gives you more spring tension ensuring more reliable loading. YMMV I went to a 2 day tactical carbine class that tought to use that method. One guy on the line next to me broke a charging handle, with this method. The front part of the CH that contacts the bolt carrier started to bend away from the CH and accually started to rip the metal. Which made his rifle inoperable untill the CH was replaced. I was using a steel CH which was bent in the same place. I did not notice untill after the class and was cleaning my rifle. I think what happens is when you pull the CH to the rear with the bolt locked back it moves freely, so during a tactical reload the CH is pulled back with alot of force and no tension, it slams into the bolt carrier violently. After repeated hits it over stresses the metal of the CH. But this is just my theory. I wish I had Pics to illustrate but I don't. |
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.he put the mag in, and then went to pull back on the charging handle. .? IMHO that's the preffered method as it's a gross motor skill and the same motion you use when loading on a closed bolt or clearing a malfunction. Pull the charging handle all the way to the rear and let it go. True, but I prefer to push the bolt catch in to reduce the wear the charging handle creates on the upper. In fact, I rarely use the charging handle for that reason. |
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.he put the mag in, and then went to pull back on the charging handle. .? IMHO that's the preffered method as it's a gross motor skill and the same motion you use when loading on a closed bolt or clearing a malfunction. Pull the charging handle all the way to the rear and let it go. True, but I prefer to push the bolt catch in to reduce the wear the charging handle creates on the upper. In fact, I rarely use the charging handle for that reason. the only excessive wear I've ever noticed is in the area around the latch and the CH where it contacts the upper receiver. I've never bent a CH or ever had to replace one. I load the rifle both ways, from prone or bench shooting I will use the bolt catch, as I will try to minimize my movements as to keep the same cheek weld and keep my eye on the target getting ready for the next group. When practicig speed drills I will use the CH method and the bolt catch just depends where my hands are and what I'm practicing. |
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.he put the mag in, and then went to pull back on the charging handle. .? IMHO that's the preffered method as it's a gross motor skill and the same motion you use when loading on a closed bolt or clearing a malfunction. Pull the charging handle all the way to the rear and let it go. I dunno. I personally prefer slapping the bolt catch/release with the palm of my hand. Quick and a lot easier than grabbing the CH. |
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