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Posted: 5/7/2013 9:54:52 AM EDT
Sometimes mil-spec isnt always the greatest. These pins came from a parts kit I had installed in a rifle since 2007. Probably about 3000 round through this receiver. I bought a set of KNS anti-walk pins and during the swap, the original pins came out like this. The broken pin was from the trigger location. I am pretty sure the new KNS pins will not do this. $25 insurance.
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| Costa Class two weeks ago I witnessed pins fall out of a brand new BCM "Jack" rifle after about 2 hours of shooting (whoever installed the aftermarket trigger didnt have the hammer spring placed properly) and one pin fall our of a Timmeny drop in trigger in a POF. |
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Costa Class two weeks ago I witnessed pins fall out of a brand new BCM "Jack" rifle after about 2 hours of shooting (whoever installed the aftermarket trigger didnt have the hammer spring placed properly) and one pin fall our of a Timmeny drop in trigger in a POF. The rifle was working perfectly and the pins would only walk ever so often. I am surprised it held up and it makes me wonder how long they were like that. |
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Costa Class two weeks ago I witnessed pins fall out of a brand new BCM "Jack" rifle after about 2 hours of shooting (whoever installed the aftermarket trigger didnt have the hammer spring placed properly) and one pin fall our of a Timmeny drop in trigger in a POF. The rifle was working perfectly and the pins would only walk ever so often. I am surprised it held up and it makes me wonder how long they were like that. Pins CANNOT walk when properly installed. If they would "walk ever so often" then they weren't installed correctly or something else is broken. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Costa Class two weeks ago I witnessed pins fall out of a brand new BCM "Jack" rifle after about 2 hours of shooting (whoever installed the aftermarket trigger didnt have the hammer spring placed properly) and one pin fall our of a Timmeny drop in trigger in a POF. The rifle was working perfectly and the pins would only walk ever so often. I am surprised it held up and it makes me wonder how long they were like that. Pins CANNOT walk when properly installed. If they would "walk ever so often" then they weren't installed correctly or something else is broken. |
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I use those slightly oversized anti-walk pins. Cant remember who makes them, never have and issue holding the Timney in place. I just stick with Geissele triggers, I dont need to worry about an inferior/out of spec trigger or trigger pins Exactly. |
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I had a 9mm hammer pin break. It started to intermittently double, triple, and then went full auto for a half magazine of fun. Then it stopped. It took over 10000 rounds for that to happen.
I installed KNS pins, after first poo-pooing the need for them. 
If you run a rimfire conversion, you should consider the KNS pins too. |
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Quoted: I had a 9mm hammer pin break. It started to intermittently double, triple, and then went full auto for a half magazine of fun. Then it stopped. It took over 10000 rounds for that to happen. I installed KNS pins, after first poo-pooing the need for them. If you run a rimfire conversion, you should consider the KNS pins too. Rimfire and blowback pistol conversions wreak havoc on any types of triggers, keep spares if youre running them |
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Just to clarify - just because they "look" like "milspec" pins doesn't mean they are. They could have been improperly treated or made of the wrong materials to begin with. What brand was the LPK?
SS pins are supposed to be "standard" for factory 9MM SMGs, though to be honest I'm not sure if they're installed in commercial semi-auto variants. Someone with more 9MM experience may know. Both .22lr and 9MM are blowback and harder on the FCG pins. ~Augee |
| I hate to be "that guy".....but considering how many rifles out there are being used in militarys across the globe, and none of them have aftermarket pins or triggers. I have a hard time seeing how its a recommended upgrade. Unless of course you're trying to upgrade your trigger for performance reasons. Other than that, IMO the standard mil spec versions seem to hold up pretty well. Seems to me anyway....... |
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Costa Class two weeks ago I witnessed pins fall out of a brand new BCM "Jack" rifle after about 2 hours of shooting (whoever installed the aftermarket trigger didnt have the hammer spring placed properly) and one pin fall our of a Timmeny drop in trigger in a POF. The rifle was working perfectly and the pins would only walk ever so often. I am surprised it held up and it makes me wonder how long they were like that. Pins CANNOT walk when properly installed. If they would "walk ever so often" then they weren't installed correctly or something else is broken. These were properly installed. They did not "walk", they pivoted and settled leaving a nub sticking out of one side of the receiver and flush with the receiver on the other side. The "walking" you may be referring to is when a hammer spring is improperly installed upside down not leaving enough spring tension on the trigger when the hammer is forward. |
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These were properly installed. They did not "walk", they pivoted and settled leaving a nub sticking out of one side of the receiver and flush with the receiver on the other side. The "walking" you may be referring to is when a hammer spring is improperly installed upside down not leaving enough spring tension on the trigger when the hammer is forward. Sounds like the pin was out of spec |
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I use those slightly oversized anti-walk pins. Cant remember who makes them, never have and issue holding the Timney in place. JP Rifles makes them. I have used them and they're great, they only cost $10 a set, but they require you to remove the J-spring from the hammer. |
| That is not an uncommon failure for those style pins. I've seen it a bunch on this site. I know Spikes actually uses pins that are specific to the hammer and trigger, and have never heard of them failing. I would imagine Spikes isn't the only one doing it, so I'd start looking for site specific pins, or go with KNS. |
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I use those slightly oversized anti-walk pins. Cant remember who makes them, never have and issue holding the Timney in place. I just stick with Geissele triggers, I dont need to worry about an inferior/out of spec trigger or trigger pins This ! I just finished my 3rd build, installing a Geiselle SD-C. Never had a problem with "walking". Oh yeah, I almost forgot, great trigger. 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I use those slightly oversized anti-walk pins. Cant remember who makes them, never have and issue holding the Timney in place. I just stick with Geissele triggers, I dont need to worry about an inferior/out of spec trigger or trigger pins This ! I just finished my 3rd build, installing a Geiselle SD-C. Never had a proble with "walking". Oh yeah, I almost forgot, great trigger. My favorite trigger, I have one in evry one of my guns. My wife it crazy and likes the SSA in hers better though  SD-C is actually what I just sent my friend with he broken Timmeny
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Costa Class two weeks ago I witnessed pins fall out of a brand new BCM "Jack" rifle after about 2 hours of shooting (whoever installed the aftermarket trigger didnt have the hammer spring placed properly) and one pin fall our of a Timmeny drop in trigger in a POF. The rifle was working perfectly and the pins would only walk ever so often. I am surprised it held up and it makes me wonder how long they were like that. Pins CANNOT walk when properly installed. If they would "walk ever so often" then they weren't installed correctly or something else is broken. I had a hammer pin keep walking out on me and was not sure what was going on. After a long look I replaced the hammer and all is fine. The "J" (hammer spring) was out of spec. So... installed correctly they still can walk out. But something has to be broke/out of spec. |
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That is not an uncommon failure for those style pins. I've seen it a bunch on this site. I know Spikes actually uses pins that are specific to the hammer and trigger, and have never heard of them failing. I would imagine Spikes isn't the only one doing it, so I'd start looking for site specific pins, or go with KNS. Yeah - my Spike's hammer pin broke in my lower with standard 5.56mm upper. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: how can a pin be installed incorrectly? Hammer spring not seated in the cut out. Although evrery thing you have stated deems to be correct . Why would anyone trust a person with your avitar. Very bad AV. Why trust a towel or rag head  Had to blend in whilst in Iraq, they aren't to friendly to us Jews |
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That is not an uncommon failure for those style pins. I've seen it a bunch on this site. I know Spikes actually uses pins that are specific to the hammer and trigger, and have never heard of them failing. I would imagine Spikes isn't the only one doing it, so I'd start looking for site specific pins, or go with KNS. Yeah - my Spike's hammer pin broke in my lower with standard 5.56mm upper. was it the same style as the pins in the pic? |
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3000 rounds is not much for what that pin should take. A broken trigger pin can be a sign of an over gassed system. Check your disconnect for hammer impact. It may show penning right behind the hook.
If your system is over gassed it will continue to damage parts. KNS are 316 stainless and will bend. This will cause a sticky trigger over time. Your disconnect can shear at the impact point usually the front corner where it sits on the spring and a number of other areas will wear prematurely. or it could be a bad pin, you should trouble shoot it not just replace parts. |
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Costa Class two weeks ago I witnessed pins fall out of a brand new BCM "Jack" rifle after about 2 hours of shooting (whoever installed the aftermarket trigger didnt have the hammer spring placed properly) and one pin fall our of a Timmeny drop in trigger in a POF. The rifle was working perfectly and the pins would only walk ever so often. I am surprised it held up and it makes me wonder how long they were like that. Pins CANNOT walk when properly installed. If they would "walk ever so often" then they weren't installed correctly or something else is broken. These were properly installed. They did not "walk", they pivoted and settled leaving a nub sticking out of one side of the receiver and flush with the receiver on the other side. The "walking" you may be referring to is when a hammer spring is improperly installed upside down not leaving enough spring tension on the trigger when the hammer is forward. Walk was YOUR term. I quoted YOU.
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Costa Class two weeks ago I witnessed pins fall out of a brand new BCM "Jack" rifle after about 2 hours of shooting (whoever installed the aftermarket trigger didnt have the hammer spring placed properly) and one pin fall our of a Timmeny drop in trigger in a POF. The rifle was working perfectly and the pins would only walk ever so often. I am surprised it held up and it makes me wonder how long they were like that. Pins CANNOT walk when properly installed. If they would "walk ever so often" then they weren't installed correctly or something else is broken. I had a hammer pin keep walking out on me and was not sure what was going on. After a long look I replaced the hammer and all is fine. The "J" (hammer spring) was out of spec. So... installed correctly they still can walk out. But something has to be broke/out of spec. I think that' gets a "duh". All bets are off when something is broken or out of spec. I didn't think I needed to add a lot of legal fine print.
I have had a hammer pin that walked. It was in an Armalite AR10, and the hammer was missing the J-pin altogether. |
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Costa Class two weeks ago I witnessed pins fall out of a brand new BCM "Jack" rifle after about 2 hours of shooting (whoever installed the aftermarket trigger didnt have the hammer spring placed properly) and one pin fall our of a Timmeny drop in trigger in a POF. The rifle was working perfectly and the pins would only walk ever so often. I am surprised it held up and it makes me wonder how long they were like that. Pins CANNOT walk when properly installed. If they would "walk ever so often" then they weren't installed correctly or something else is broken. These were properly installed. They did not "walk", they pivoted and settled leaving a nub sticking out of one side of the receiver and flush with the receiver on the other side. The "walking" you may be referring to is when a hammer spring is improperly installed upside down not leaving enough spring tension on the trigger when the hammer is forward. I had no way to tell there was something wrong with the J spring. It looked fine, When I replaced the hammer, the pins didn't move anymore. Kind of was surprised that was the problem since it was a new LPK. Not really sure which kit it was BUT it was either a RR or a DD LPK. Walk was YOUR term. I quoted YOU. |
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Walk was YOUR term. I quoted YOU. Perception is a damned thing these days. Million dollar idea spolier alert: I should publish a new digital dictionary with videos and pictures of terms. As for the comment about breaking the pin while removing, plausible but I have done this more times than I can count without failure. BUT the comment about overgassing is VERY interesting. I have been running a suppressor on a 10" 5.56 barrel on this setup for quite some time |
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Walk was YOUR term. I quoted YOU. Perception is a damned thing these days. Million dollar idea spolier alert: I should publish a new digital dictionary with videos and pictures of terms. As for the comment about breaking the pin while removing, plausible but I have done this more times than I can count without failure. BUT the comment about overgassing is VERY interesting. I have been running a suppressor on a 10" 5.56 barrel on this setup for quite some time That is very likely one of the causes. The main cause, especially if the pins weren't truly mil spec, or were just bad. Look at the back of the hook on your hammer and the top of your disconnecter where that part of the hammer would hit. If the bolt group is coming back too hard, you'll see peening. Also look at the trigger and hammer pin holes in your receiver itself. Eventually they can go out of round from bing hammered so hard. Suppressors increase back pressure a lot. Most short barrels have larger gas ports and operate more violently to ensure the bolt has enough gas to function. Combining both can, and has caused this to happen. Better a cheap, replaceable pin, than your receiver going first. Look at heavier buffers for that particular set up. If you just swap to the KNS pins, they might not break, but as stated they'll bend, and you'll end up with receiver damage. Assuming you're rifle is being as overgassed as I suspect. |
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Walk was YOUR term. I quoted YOU. Perception is a damned thing these days. Million dollar idea spolier alert: I should publish a new digital dictionary with videos and pictures of terms. As for the comment about breaking the pin while removing, plausible but I have done this more times than I can count without failure. BUT the comment about overgassing is VERY interesting. I have been running a suppressor on a 10" 5.56 barrel on this setup for quite some time That is very likely one of the causes. The main cause, especially if the pins weren't truly mil spec, or were just bad. Look at the back of the hook on your hammer and the top of your disconnecter where that part of the hammer would hit. If the bolt group is coming back too hard, you'll see peening. Also look at the trigger and hammer pin holes in your receiver itself. Eventually they can go out of round from bing hammered so hard. Suppressors increase back pressure a lot. Most short barrels have larger gas ports and operate more violently to ensure the bolt has enough gas to function. Combining both can, and has caused this to happen. Better a cheap, replaceable pin, than your receiver going first. Look at heavier buffers for that particular set up. If you just swap to the KNS pins, they might not break, but as stated they'll bend, and you'll end up with receiver damage. Assuming you're rifle is being as overgassed as I suspect. Great info. Thank you. |
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