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4/18/2017 7:24:55 PM EDT
To have a custom-built Recce or not that is the question.

I have been tossing the idea of a Recce build for the last couple of years.  I may finally be able to afford it later this year.  10 years ago, custom builds were the only way to get an AR with a match barrel.  Now you can order one off the shelf from high-end niche, and low-end manufacturers.  My question is, are custom builds worth it?  Do they perform incrementally better than BCM, Noveske, and KAC Recce rifles?  Keep in mind that my idea of a Recce is an accurized 16" rifle with magnified optics (a low powered variable in my case), and not a precision weapons system.  A platform that stretches the accuracy and effective range yet is as reliable as an M4, and maneuverable enough to move around in a hallway.  
What have your experience been with Recce style rifles?  Would really appreciate anyone sharing their experience with off the shelf/custom Recce’s.  Especially those that have had both.  Are low power variable optics the “ideal” like I imagine?  If custom is the way to go who would you recommend?

Thanks,

45Cal
4/18/2017 7:43:02 PM EDT
[#1]
I've always assembled my own carbines/rifles as I can fully customize each one to fit the purpose for which I intend to use it. If you have the tools, and the knowledge, building your own is better and much more satisfying. It is critical to use high quality parts in your builds. I've assembled several and each run very well.

One of my favorites is a custom built on a Spike's lower using a Daniel Defense CHF light weight, mid length barrel. I have a Vortex Strike Eagle sitting on it and it shoots very well. It's the carbine I use when competing in the various "Run n' Gun" competitions.

Low Powered Variable Optics (LPV) are the waive of the future. Nearly all my carbines/rifles sport some  type of magnified optic. Target ID is enhanced as well as accuracy at any distances over 100 yards.
4/18/2017 9:00:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
To have a custom-built Recce or not that is the question.

I have been tossing the idea of a Recce build for the last couple of years.  I may finally be able to afford it later this year.  10 years ago, custom builds were the only way to get an AR with a match barrel.  Now you can order one off the shelf from high-end niche, and low-end manufacturers.  My question is, are custom builds worth it?  Do they perform incrementally better than BCM, Noveske, and KAC Recce rifles?  Keep in mind that my idea of a Recce is an accurized 16" rifle with magnified optics (a low powered variable in my case), and not a precision weapons system.  A platform that stretches the accuracy and effective range yet is as reliable as an M4, and maneuverable enough to move around in a hallway.  
What have your experience been with Recce style rifles?  Would really appreciate anyone sharing their experience with off the shelf/custom Recce’s.  Especially those that have had both.  Are low power variable optics the “ideal” like I imagine?  If custom is the way to go who would you recommend?

Thanks,

45Cal
View Quote


Well, my understanding is that the original "recce" as sourced by Navy  Crane for SEALS did have a precision, match grade 16" stainless barrel from Lilja, 1:8 twist, Wylde chambered, hand lapped with a specific heavy under the hand guard profile. I built my own variation of a modern day recce around that barrel, which Lilja stills sells, added a more modern free float modular rail compared to the free float quad of the day and substituted a modern 3-9x40 tactical illuminated mrad scope for the typical 2.5-10x or 3-9x40 used at the time, combined with a 45 degree offset small duty grade mini reflex red dot, not available at the time. Covers from 1x to 9x.

Performance is not "incrementally" better.  It is much better, as in 1/2 MOA or less with match ammo or tailored handloads.  This is an extremely accurate precision barrel that Navy Crane specified.  I'm sure some of today's factory recce rifles can be  MOA or a bit better, but sub 1/2 MOA?  Depends on your objective, of course and how much accuracy you want.

Example:  BCM has a 16" rifle they call a Recce Carbine.   The barrel is ordinary gov't profile 5.56 chrome lined non-match CMV steel 1:7.

I would strongly suggest that that rifle, name notwithstanding is NOT a recce.  I'll put my Lilja barreled home build up against it.

Just build your own.
4/18/2017 10:52:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote History
Quoted:


Well, my understanding is that the original "recce" as sourced by Navy  Crane for SEALS did have a precision, match grade 16" stainless barrel from Lilja, 1:8 twist, Wylde chambered, hand lapped with a specific heavy under the hand guard profile. I built my own variation of a modern day recce around that barrel, which Lilja stills sells, added a more modern free float modular rail compared to the free float quad of the day and substituted a modern 3-9x40 tactical illuminated mrad scope for the typical 2.5-10x or 3-9x40 used at the time, combined with a 45 degree offset small duty grade mini reflex red dot, not available at the time. Covers from 1x to 9x.

Performance is not "incrementally" better.  It is much better, as in 1/2 MOA or less with match ammo or tailored handloads.  This is an extremely accurate precision barrel that Navy Crane specified.  I'm sure some of today's factory recce rifles can be  MOA or a bit better, but sub 1/2 MOA?  Depends on your objective, of course and how much accuracy you want.

Example:  BCM has a 16" rifle they call a Recce Carbine.   The barrel is ordinary gov't profile 5.56 chrome lined non-match CMV steel 1:7.

I would strongly suggest that that rifle, name notwithstanding is NOT a recce.  I'll put my Lilja barreled home build up against it.

Just build your own.
View Quote
It is Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) Crane
4/18/2017 10:54:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Build. Odin Works, LaRue, BA, White Oak for barrel
4/18/2017 11:49:12 PM EDT
[#5]
I would say build as well. I went a different approach and ordered my Seal Recce URG from HCS. All the parts they used for my build can easily be ordered from vendors on this site to complete your build.

4/19/2017 4:38:20 AM EDT
[#6]
My "Recce" build has a Match 16" SS 1:8 5R Wylde Mid barrel.  It's been a tack-driver with Winchester, Federal and Black Hills.  I mounted a VR-X Patrol 1.25-4x20 for now.  I'm happy with it.

I bought a Noveske "Recce" in '08 for 3-gun competitions.  It was a limited run with a 16" 1:7 polygonal rifling SS barrel and JP hand guard.  I mounted a NF 1-4 for the true 1x and SSA-E trigger.

My Colt "M4's" are my do-it-all rifles for training, HD and CQB competitions.  My Noveske is HD and competition.  I'm excited about my first build, it's a "Recce" with accuracy in mind.

I've bought off the shelf Colt 6920 production rifles that knocked plates at 450 yards.  My Noveske is an accurized production gun.  My build is brand new.  I'm looking forward to running this rifle hard for reliability and accuracy.

If you do not want to build a rifle, then a LaRue, KAC, Noveske... is the way to go.  Pick what's important to you in a rifle, then shop and compare.  My Noveske was a great buy, it had everything I wanted and it still does.
4/19/2017 8:42:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote History
Quoted:


It is Naval Surface Warfare Center (NSWC) Crane
View Quote
Yes it is.  And that is the barrel profile and spec as supplied by Lilja.  My more modern take on the recce match 16" is built around that barrel.  The primary contributors to its well-rounded performance are the barrel, free float tube, optics and the SSA-E trigger.  All of these enhancements can be done easily and better without buying a complete rifle or complete upper.  I was not interested in an exact clone, but rather what the concept might be if NSWC were to do a 16" today rather than an 18" Mk 12 or the SBR Mk18.

4/19/2017 12:11:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for all the replies.  I have built lowers, but never uppers.  I don't think a Recce, built for accuracy, should be my first upper build.  The advice has been invaluable.  What do's and don't would you advise someone going down the the Recce route?
4/19/2017 2:19:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Buy the best quality barrel you can afford. The upper, with the correct tools, is easier to assemble than the lower. Put on a quality handguard and decide if you want iron sights, or not.
4/19/2017 11:46:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote History
Quoted:


Yes it is.  And that is the barrel profile and spec as supplied by Lilja.  My more modern take on the recce match 16" is built around that barrel.  The primary contributors to its well-rounded performance are the barrel, free float tube, optics and the SSA-E trigger.  All of these enhancements can be done easily and better without buying a complete rifle or complete upper.  I was not interested in an exact clone, but rather what the concept might be if NSWC were to do a 16" today rather than an 18" Mk 12 or the SBR Mk18.

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Mobile%20Uploads/DE5D908C-76C6-461D-8F84-44D61EA2367A_zpsuptux9s_edit_1479617822756_zpsz5jbfv9j.jpg
View Quote
Probably a heavier barrel profile
4/19/2017 11:49:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote History
Quoted:
Buy the best quality barrel you can afford. The upper, with the correct tools, is easier to assemble than the lower. Put on a quality handguard and decide if you want iron sights, or not.
View Quote
Yes. For real look at UTG Pro super slim rails (and their reviews) on opticsplanet. I have one on my Reece as well as my lightweight build and couldn't be more impressed with the quality. For the price u can't beat them
4/23/2017 8:47:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Take a look at a complete upper BCM 410SST 16" with the Alpha KM FF tube.
4/23/2017 8:58:19 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote History
Quoted:
Thanks for all the replies.  I have built lowers, but never uppers.  I don't think a Recce, built for accuracy, should be my first upper build.  The advice has been invaluable.  What do's and don't would you advise someone going down the the Recce route?
View Quote
Theres no reason you cant build an accurate upper.  Theres very little voodoo involved in assembling an AR.
4/23/2017 8:59:38 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote History
Quoted:
Yes. For real look at UTG Pro super slim rails (and their reviews) on opticsplanet. I have one on my Reece as well as my lightweight build and couldn't be more impressed with the quality. For the price u can't beat them
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Buy the best quality barrel you can afford. The upper, with the correct tools, is easier to assemble than the lower. Put on a quality handguard and decide if you want iron sights, or not.
Yes. For real look at UTG Pro super slim rails (and their reviews) on opticsplanet. I have one on my Reece as well as my lightweight build and couldn't be more impressed with the quality. For the price u can't beat them
ALG is way nicer.

Id take a used premium rail off the EE, too.

UTG and "premium build" just aint right!
4/23/2017 9:03:06 PM EDT
[#15]
MRgunsngear recently posted a teaser on facebook about the Savage MSR 15 recon being the most accurate AR he as ever owned.  It has a 16in 223 wyld chamber 1/8 twist.  I just bought one yesterday but have yet to test it. Its going to be my full recce rifle probably going with a 1-8x primary arms optic. Not sure what I will do with my recceish aero precision rifle after this lol
4/23/2017 10:01:25 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote History
Quoted:


Yes. For real look at UTG Pro super slim rails (and their reviews) on opticsplanet. I have one on my Reece as well as my lightweight build and couldn't be more impressed with the quality. For the price u can't beat them
View Quote
You're not kidding.  I've used one and was very impressed.   I agree that I wouldn't use it in a high end build to cut costs, but I wouldn't be afraid to use it on my regular shooters.   I've also liked the UTG metal QD bipod for the same purpose.   Could be for a budget but not crap Recce build.
4/24/2017 7:27:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote History
Quoted:
Probably a heavier barrel profile
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Yes it is.  And that is the barrel profile and spec as supplied by Lilja.  My more modern take on the recce match 16" is built around that barrel.  The primary contributors to its well-rounded performance are the barrel, free float tube, optics and the SSA-E trigger.  All of these enhancements can be done easily and better without buying a complete rifle or complete upper.  I was not interested in an exact clone, but rather what the concept might be if NSWC were to do a 16" today rather than an 18" Mk 12 or the SBR Mk18.

http://i1366.photobucket.com/albums/r772/gbloss/Mobile%20Uploads/DE5D908C-76C6-461D-8F84-44D61EA2367A_zpsuptux9s_edit_1479617822756_zpsz5jbfv9j.jpg
Probably a heavier barrel profile
Heavier than what?  Here is the Lilja recce profile next to the gov't profile 16" CMMG that it replaced. Other true recce barrels should have the same profile.  Heavy under the handguard to the gas port journal.  .725" from the gas block journal to the muzzle threads.    I don't think I would want it any heavier or lighter.  It is stiff where it needs to be and still keep weight down to 2 lbs and 2 ounces.

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