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Posted: 2/27/2009 6:09:19 AM EDT
| Can I put a 9" Omega Handguard on my carbine (M4) length barrel? |
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No, you can't.
The Omega was not designed for this. It is two pieces to make it easier to install on an upper with an FSB. You want the DD Lite. ETA: you can get the CMMG micro gas block to fit under the DD Omega but you aren't going to fit any other gas block under it. |
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No, you can't. The Omega was not designed for this. It is two pieces to make it easier to install on an upper with an FSB. You want the DD Lite. While this is true, and the DD lite would be better, it could still, technically, be used if he had a delta ring still. My DD Omega does not even contact the handguard cap, so it's definitely not required. Quoted:
already removed my fsb...my end cap would have to go as well correct? Correct, if you really wanted to use an Omega, you would have to keep your delta ring, otherwise you're going to need to go with 1 piece rail or the Troy. |
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No, you can't. The Omega was not designed for this. It is two pieces to make it easier to install on an upper with an FSB. You want the DD Lite. While this is true, and the DD lite would be better, it could still, technically, be used if he had a delta ring still. My DD Omega does not even contact the handguard cap, so it's definitely required. The delta ring has nothing to do with it. There isn't enough room under the Omega to fit 99% of the low-profile gas blocks that are being made. It is meant to be used on barrels with an FSB, putting it on an upper with a low-profile gas block defeats the purpose of a two-piece rail. |
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No, you can't. The Omega was not designed for this. It is two pieces to make it easier to install on an upper with an FSB. You want the DD Lite. While this is true, and the DD lite would be better, it could still, technically, be used if he had a delta ring still. My DD Omega does not even contact the handguard cap, so it's definitely required. The delta ring has nothing to do with it. There isn't enough room under the Omega to fit 99% of the low-profile gas blocks that are being made. It is meant to be used on barrels with an FSB, putting it on an upper with a low-profile gas block defeats the purpose of a two-piece rail. So...just because something works other than designed that means it won't work for his purpose? The purpose of having a DD Omega two piece rail is ease of installation. If he has a lo-pro block and already has the rail, test fit and see if it will work. If it does, install and be happy. There's more than one reason to get a DD Omega (no barrel nut removal)...and while that may not be the "proper" way, it will most likely work out just the same in the end (again, if the lo-pro fits). |
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No, you can't. The Omega was not designed for this. It is two pieces to make it easier to install on an upper with an FSB. You want the DD Lite. While this is true, and the DD lite would be better, it could still, technically, be used if he had a delta ring still. My DD Omega does not even contact the handguard cap, so it's definitely required. The delta ring has nothing to do with it. There isn't enough room under the Omega to fit 99% of the low-profile gas blocks that are being made. It is meant to be used on barrels with an FSB, putting it on an upper with a low-profile gas block defeats the purpose of a two-piece rail. So...just because something works other than designed that means it won't work for his purpose? The purpose of having a DD Omega two piece rail is ease of installation. If he has a lo-pro block and already has the rail, test fit and see if it will work. If it does, install and be happy. There's more than one reason to get a DD Omega (no barrel nut removal)...and while that may not be the "proper" way, it will most likely work out just the same in the end (again, if the lo-pro fits). Did you even read the entire thread? It DOESN'T work "other than designed", and It DOESN'T work for his purpose. The DD Omega does not have enough room under it for a regular low-profile gas block, period. But hey, go ahead and continue berating people since you're clearly more knowledgeable on this subject. |
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http://www.blackhand.com/ar15/ar_left_buis_up_lq.jpg
This is a mid-length gas rifle with a 12.0 Omega Rail installed over a CMMG micro gas block. I was told by representatives at Daniel Defense that though this was not the original application for the Omega Rail, it would suit my purpose with no loss in functionality or stability. I picked the Omega Rail over the Lite rail or any other one piece design because it was something I could install easily. I don't have the tools invested right now to remove a barrel nut, etc. I also did not want to pay a gunsmith $100 or so dollars to install a rail for me. So I felt the Omega Rail was a viable and cost-effective alternative. It's held up fine, and not having to dremel off the delta ring as in MI or Troy designs was another plus. |
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No, you can't. The Omega was not designed for this. It is two pieces to make it easier to install on an upper with an FSB. You want the DD Lite. ETA: you can get the CMMG micro gas block to fit under the DD Omega but you aren't going to fit any other gas block under it. 
I'm using the Daniel Defense gas block under the Daniel Defense 9.0 FDE OMEGA on my 7.62x25 coversion. If you look close you can see it near the chamber..... 
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ftwm: while using the Omega in this fashion is not "best practice" it is certainly do-able with the CMMG micro gas block. No need to get hostile. Personally, I'd use the Omega only if I didn't want to remove a FH that was pinned. In any other case, it's worth the extra effort to get a dedicated one peice rail IMHO. The only tools needed are a AR wrench ($35), a work bench, and a vice. The AR wrench can be slightly modified to work on LITE barrel nuts, and they already work on everything else like the RAS, YHM, Larue, and DD M4 barrel nuts. |
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ftwm: while using the Omega in this fashion is not "best practice" it is certainly do-able with the CMMG micro gas block. No need to get hostile. Personally, I'd use the Omega only if I didn't want to remove a FH that was pinned. In any other case, it's worth the extra effort to get a dedicated one peice rail IMHO. The only tools needed are a AR wrench ($35), a work bench, and a vice. The AR wrench can be slightly modified to work on LITE barrel nuts, and they already work on everything else like the RAS, YHM, Larue, and DD M4 barrel nuts. He's good for that, but he's far from the only one on this site. |
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I can tell you that I KNOW it will work with the CMMG micro and that was the old style Omega I do not know about the new OMEGA.
I have heard of other units working with trimming but have no first hand knowledge. The Omega is plenty stout if that is what you want to do I* did not put it on my personal Ar but installed one for a friend as a patrol rifle and it works great for him. |
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No, you can't. The Omega was not designed for this. It is two pieces to make it easier to install on an upper with an FSB. You want the DD Lite. While this is true, and the DD lite would be better, it could still, technically, be used if he had a delta ring still. My DD Omega does not even contact the handguard cap, so it's definitely required. The delta ring has nothing to do with it. There isn't enough room under the Omega to fit 99% of the low-profile gas blocks that are being made. It is meant to be used on barrels with an FSB, putting it on an upper with a low-profile gas block defeats the purpose of a two-piece rail. So...just because something works other than designed that means it won't work for his purpose? The purpose of having a DD Omega two piece rail is ease of installation. If he has a lo-pro block and already has the rail, test fit and see if it will work. If it does, install and be happy. There's more than one reason to get a DD Omega (no barrel nut removal)...and while that may not be the "proper" way, it will most likely work out just the same in the end (again, if the lo-pro fits). Did you even read the entire thread? It DOESN'T work "other than designed", and It DOESN'T work for his purpose. The DD Omega does not have enough room under it for a regular low-profile gas block, period. But hey, go ahead and continue berating people since you're clearly more knowledgeable on this subject. Dude, chill pill. I'm simply stating that it can and does work with other gas blocks (even though it was not designed for such). ETA - Now there are pics that prove exactly what I said. It will work with some other lo-pros...simple as that. I'm not debating on whether or not it's the "right" thing to do, but rather that if it works and dude is happy with it, it then becomes the "right" thing to do for him. |
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Did you even read the entire thread? It DOESN'T work "other than designed", and It DOESN'T work for his purpose. The DD Omega does not have enough room under it for a regular low-profile gas block, period. But hey, go ahead and continue berating people since you're clearly more knowledgeable on this subject. Ohhh, really??? Hmmm...I could have sworn that I built this last night with a DD Omega 9.0 and DD lowpro gas block...and I could have also sworn that it fit fine, with a tad bit of room to spare. But hey, what the hell do I know?
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Did you even read the entire thread? It DOESN'T work "other than designed", and It DOESN'T work for his purpose. The DD Omega does not have enough room under it for a regular low-profile gas block, period. But hey, go ahead and continue berating people since you're clearly more knowledgeable on this subject. Ohhh, really??? Hmmm...I could have sworn that I built this last night with a DD Omega 9.0 and DD lowpro gas block...and I could have also sworn that it fit fine, with a tad bit of room to spare. But hey, what the hell do I know?
http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq246/juju151/AROD07.jpg http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq246/juju151/AROD08.jpg http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq246/juju151/AROD09.jpg http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq246/juju151/AROD05.jpg you should have about 1/4 to spare on each side I can't see the pics to judge your clearance I do like those rails |
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you should have about 1/4 to spare on each side I can't see the pics to judge your clearance I do like those rails You are correct, it fits fine on the sides...but the close points are at the corners of the top and bottom where the gas block extends into the upper and lower rails. I can see that there could be a problem if the index pin was not exactly straight or something like that, where you would see the FSB slightly canted to one side...but that is rarely the case. If that was an issue, then you would have to file the index pin slot on the upper receiver to get it straight before it would fit without touching the rail. One thing that I like about using this rail, is that I can get to the screws on the gas block with the bottom rail taken off...so you can put the top rail on and clamp it down straight with the upper receiver using a scope mount or something, and then use the rail to help you line up the gas block and tube. I straighted the gas block within the front of the rail, then looked down through the holes in the top of the rail to make sure the gas tube is running perfectly straight all the way into the gas tube hole...if it's off, you should be able to tell. I do the same thing with YHM free float rails, by screwing the rail on and eyeballing the tube from the gas block to the receiver through the top holes in the rail...and if the gas block is not straight, you will be able to see it. And anyone installing these types of gas blocks...remember, that you will have to move the gas block away from the shoulder about 1/32" to account for the space usually taken up by the front handguard ring...I use a .026 automotive feeler guage for this purpose and it has worked fine for me. Although I have installed a gas block right against the shoulder before and it did run fine but I usually go ahead and gap them just to be safe. JuJu |
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isn't the whole point of a ff handguard so that sling tension doesn't flex the barrel causing a shift in poi ? that said, if your gas block is thisclose to the rail, wouldn't it start touching as soon as you started snugging down with the sling?
Maybe I'm the only one, but I crank down pretty good on the sling when shooting. |
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isn't the whole point of a ff handguard so that sling tension doesn't flex the barrel causing a shift in poi ? that said, if your gas block is thisclose to the rail, wouldn't it start touching as soon as you started snugging down with the sling? Maybe I'm the only one, but I crank down pretty good on the sling when shooting. I'm sure the rail could be made to touch the gas block if the sling attachment point was somewhere toward the end of the rail and you put alot of pressure on the end of the rail, but the sling attachment points on the omega rail are right in front of the delta ring. So if you can make it touch using that attachment point, you are one STRONG dude! 
I use a single point sling anyway, with the attachment point on the egg plate...so no worries for me on that. And in any event, I would think that this Omega setup would be better in your senario than anything non-free float, especially better than having a sling attached to the FSB...correct? ETA...I can tell you this. Pushing and pulling on a vert grip installed at the halfway point of the rail, I can not get the rail to touch the gas block...and that's good enough for me. 
JuJu |
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