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Posted: 1/14/2017 11:42:54 PM EDT
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I am thinking about purchasing a DPMS GII SASS as a fun gun / hunting gun. I like the look of the gun and it sounds to be very accurate for the price range. Since this is a large purchase and I don’t know much about the maze of AR-10 type rifles is there anything I should know about or other alternatives I should look at?
Robert Lee |
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There are currently no alternatives to the DPMS GII. It is a new small-frame AR10 model developed by DPMS for Freedom Group. The only companies selling small-frame AR10s are DPMS, Remington (owned by Freedom Group), they have licensed to Adam Arms who is producing piston versions, Maten and Colt have their own small-frame AR10 versions that are not very well marketed. So, the DPMS/Remington/AA is really the only game in town for a smaller, lighter AR10 that handles like an AR15 and accepts most AR15 components.
They come standard with a number of upgrades on top of the smaller/lighter receiver set and overbuilt BCG: titanium firing pin, integral winter trigger guard, flared magwell, hatched front magwell for grip, monolithic bolt carrier, dual ejectors, space-magic material extractor and spring, um, im sure I missed something. Overall, great value and potentially the best bolt in ARs right now. They can also accept almost any AR15 upgrade parts like stocks, triggers (including DIAS), grips, optics, end plates, etc. Downsides: proprietary barrel extension, limited aftermarket in barrels and handguards, generally overgassed, and older initial models had a number of issues that have been 'tweaked' in the latest iteration. Adams Arms versions are still problematic, but seem to be caused by being too 'tight' from factory and may work themselves out. In general, the DPMS non-carbon fiber handguards are heavy pigs and could stand to be replaced. An adjustable gas block is recommended. Magpul G3 magazines may need some tweaking as their follower can ride lower than other magazines, causing them to not fully engage the bolt-hold-open. Hit-or-miss if this effects yours, mine works fine with them, but its a quick fix anyway and other mags are flawless. As far as the SASS model, I like it, but didnt care for the midlength gas. So I bought a Bull and am having the barrel cut back. For hunting, I strongly suggest you try and feel the SASS and compare it to the GII Hunter or even the Compact Hunter model. The 20" Hunter is a slightly thinner barrel than the SASS's bull-barrel, but the balance and feel is pretty much perfect. The 16" Compact Hunter is even lighter at 6.95lbs, though the barrel length starts to limit your range for ethical kills there. If you are looking at the older, heavier, bulkier DPMS first gen pattern, its a wide market. The upside is, you can probably build a decent one for a few hundred less than the DPMS GII models. But maybe not with the 'upgrades' integral to the GII series, and of course no warranty. |
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The above post is pretty comprehensive, and pretty much spot on.
I own two of the GII Hunter 20" rifles. One is an early model, the other very recent, both came from Bud's. The early rifle does require the P Mags to be modified to get good bolt stop engagement, we haven't looked terribly close at the newest rifle yet. But since I modify all of my P Mags to work with the older GII, it isn't a big deal. The older rifle immediately got a Yankee Hill Machine steel gas block to allow a matching set of flip up iron sights to be mounted, but it is not adjustable. It is probably slightly over gassed, but it functions reliably, shoots well, does not damage brass, and puts nearly all of it in one fairly small spot close by. The newer rifle has fewer rounds through it but appears to behave the same way. They will be going to the range in a month or so, with an optic, for accuracy testing, the rifle that shoots the larger group is going to ADCO to have the barrel shortened and threaded to accept a suppressor for conversion to a medium range/CQB rifle. I expect the difference to be small, and the first rifle is quite accurate for a relatively low cost mass produced AR platform rifle firing mil spec 7.62 x 51 ammunition. I really like the GII Hunter for size, weight, handling, accuracy and over all performance. |
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If you are looking at the SASS, I fail to see much benefit versus any of the larger-framed guns. Yes, there are many improvements, but based on weight alone (when looking at the SASS), it would seem pointless to get a GII vs. the larger-framed guns.
What kind of hunting are you doing? The smaller barrels do not trade off much when looking at shorter distances, and realistically at roughly -25FPS per inch, 16" vs 20" is nearly meaningless. As far as my uses go, the 16" barrel, lighter weight, and collapsible stock are infinitely more beneficial for getting through the woods and in and out of rigs than the velocity gain a few inches will give me. FWIW, the Recon is shorter than an M1 Carbine. Not as light of course, but handiness can definitely be something to consider. I haven't really looked at the gas systems between the various GII models, but I believe the GII Recon is the only one of the 16" barreled GII's with mid-length gas. Still tend to be overgassed from what I've experienced, so you either deal with beat up brass, run lighter loads, or start messing with buffers and/or adjustable gas blocks. As stated, the (long continuing) lack of additional chamberings has hurt the GII IMO, and the inability to readily swap free float handguards is a bit of a hassle too. Barrel extensions are now being sold, but thus far I've not seen anyone that has run a different chambering in the GII. DPMS is/was supposed to release more, but that's been said since what, 2014? |
| Maybe after Shot we'll see some more options/parts availability, but yes, as dyeager535 mentioned...if you're looking at the SASS, I'd strongly consider the larger Gen1 as you will not really benefit from the weight savings of the G2 and won't be handicapped by parts availability. |
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Maybe after Shot we'll see some more options/parts availability, but yes, as dyeager535 mentioned...if you're looking at the SASS, I'd strongly consider the larger Gen1 as you will not really benefit from the weight savings of the G2 and won't be handicapped by parts availability. Quoted:
Maybe after Shot we'll see some more options/parts availability, but yes, as dyeager535 mentioned...if you're looking at the SASS, I'd strongly consider the larger Gen1 as you will not really benefit from the weight savings of the G2 and won't be handicapped by parts availability. Thats not entirely true. The SASS is the heaviest GII, but thats in part because the weight includes the bipod, heavy legacy quad rail, and the Magpul PRS probably the heaviest stock available. But it will still be lighter in weight than an equivalently outfitted Gen1. Parts availability, you can get barrel extensions now, so can get custom barrels made. People have had them made in 6.5CM, a few others. Still no off-the-shelf Rainier Ultra Match or the like, if you are looking for that. But yeah, theres only 7 or 8 FF handguards of various lengths to choose from. The AP4/MOE will take any standard midlength handguards though. Vertex has a titanium barrel nut too. Spare parts are still hard to get, until stock builds up. But then, we're kinda spoiled for choice in the AR world to begin with. Seems like the GII has only been out a few years and the aftermarket is already on par with my AKs. Quoted:
Savage just introduced a small frame AR in .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor. Hmmm, which do you think would be better in the small-frame AR10, the 6.5CM (Savage) or the .260REM (DPMS/Remington)? |
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Thats not entirely true. The SASS is the heaviest GII, but thats in part because the weight includes the bipod, heavy legacy quad rail, and the Magpul PRS probably the heaviest stock available. But it will still be lighter in weight than an equivalently outfitted Gen1. Parts availability, you can get barrel extensions now, so can get custom barrels made. People have had them made in 6.5CM, a few others. Still no off-the-shelf Rainier Ultra Match or the like, if you are looking for that. But yeah, theres only 7 or 8 FF handguards of various lengths to choose from. The AP4/MOE will take any standard midlength handguards though. Vertex has a titanium barrel nut too. Spare parts are still hard to get, until stock builds up. But then, we're kinda spoiled for choice in the AR world to begin with. Seems like the GII has only been out a few years and the aftermarket is already on par with my AKs. Hmmm, which do you think would be better in the small-frame AR10, the 6.5CM (Savage) or the .260REM (DPMS/Remington)? My point was the weight savings that the G2 has to offer over the G1 platform loses value in the SASS configuration. If I was looking at a SASS or other similarly configured rifle and trying to ring out the most of what the configuration has to offer, I'd consider weight to be my friend. You'll save money, frustration, and more than likely have a more capable and inherently accurate rifle from the G1 platform, all things considered. AP4/MOE will not take any standard midlength handguard. In fact, it's a carbine length gas system and the barrel dimensions and barrel nut do result in some fitment issues with a large majority of the desired AR15 platform handguard and free float options. The MOE handguards are even modified in their stock configuration for the G2, not off the shelf AR15 pattern MOE handguards. Personally, I'd favor the 6.5CM, but the Savage is yet untested, and not yet available. I have yet to see a G2 patterned .260 available for purchase, only advertised/promoted. |
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Savage just introduced a small frame AR in .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor. Rock River Arms has their new light wt. .308 Win at Shot as well not sure about 6.5 Creedmoor although they are doing rifles in that caliber. Watch at about 3:25 can't quite hear whether it's designation is PP-3? or PC-3?  Failed To Load Title |
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The only companies selling small-frame AR10s are DPMS, Remington (owned by Freedom Group), they have licensed to Adam Arms who is producing piston versions, Maten and Colt have their own small-frame AR10 versions that are not very well marketed. MaTen is not a manufacturer, it is a rifle model by Mega Arms. The SF-MaTen is still unreleased, delayed since Summer of last year. Hopefully the delay is to make it perfect for release so the customers aren't the guinea pigs, like seems to be the modern way, and certainly was with the GII, if the many bad early examples are any evidence including the one I fired. |
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