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Posted: 8/10/2011 6:41:06 PM EDT
| Thinking about getting a DPMS Optics Ready AR-15, under $700. Anyone have experience with these? |
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had a DPMS Oracle 5.56.. bought for $569 from Surplus Ammo & Arms..
did not like Steel cased ammo.. would not extract them.. 1 got stuck REAL BAD and needed a cleaning rod.. even after 400+ rounds and mutiple chamber brush sessions.. still would not run steel ammo.. other than that it ran ALL brass cased ammo 100%.. and was a TIGHT shooter.. I sold the upper, and bought a PSA upper which now runs on the DPMS lower. and runs steel ammo thus far.. 
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had a DPMS Oracle 5.56.. bought for $569 from Surplus Ammo & Arms.. did not like Steel cased ammo.. would not extract them.. 1 got stuck REAL BAD and needed a cleaning rod.. even after 400+ rounds and mutiple chamber brush sessions.. still would not run steel ammo.. other than that it ran ALL brass cased ammo 100%.. and was a TIGHT shooter.. I sold the upper, and bought a PSA upper which now runs on the DPMS lower. and runs steel ammo thus far..
Was the barrel marked 223 or 5.56? opps i see where u said 5.56. |
| Have one also. I really like it. No real problems to speak of. I only had one minor problem that I fixed. The railed from sight/gas block that the Oracle uses has two set screws holding it on. They came loose after a day of shooting. When i saw the front sight canted a little I recognized the problem. I took the screws out one at a time and replaced them using loctite. I haven't had any other problems whatsoever. Shoots tight groups considering its a lightweight barreled carbine. Never had a failure to fire or failure to extract. I have never run anything but brass cased ammo though. I think it's good to go. |
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Quoted: I bought one recently at a gunshow - $ 620 out the door (tax incl). it shoots tighter groups than I expected, no FTF, no FTE and I have fired nothing but brass reloads. Trigger is rough and about 8 - 9 lbs of pull. Lube everything well before you shoot it - mine was bone dry in the box.
Thinking about getting a DPMS Optics Ready AR-15, under $700. Anyone have experience with these? |
| Isn't Smith & Wesson owned by the same parent company? Freedom Arms? Correct me if I'm wrong. Also I would remind you that DPMS has been doing it a lot longer than Smith & Wesson. I have no experience with the M&P series myself, but Smith makes pretty much everything else nice so I would expect it to be quality as well. That being said it irks me when people go to talk about trusting x name over y name. I know people have their preferences but most of that "name" stuff is bullshit and we need to stop it. Let's judge each rifle one at a time. I take offense when people talk noise about DPMS. They gave me a quality product that never fails and shoots great. As a matter of fact got a buddy of mine with about $2500.00 tied up in an Armalite. And it is beautiful. It doesn't do a single thing better than my DPMS. |
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At that price, I would also check out the S&W Sport line of M&P15s. I'll be honest and say I don't know a ton about either model, but I trust the Smith name more and like that it has a 1/8 twist barrel. Sorry. Meant to quote ya" Look above for my comment.  Oh, yeah,... I mean no disrespect. I had a M&P .40cal that was really great.
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The Oracle
A Story about a Panther and a first time AR Buyer A long, long time ago, in a city far, far away from Dallas called Austin, Tx, a young naive boy named BCV walked into a little known gun store named McBride's. This young little whipper snapper walked into the store with aspirations of walking out with his 850 dollars he had in his back pocket. His significant other, also known as his girlfriend, had these same hopes. Hopes that she would eventually use to her benefit should they come true. After minutes of browsing the little shop, the young man walked by a corner where all the 'scary rifles' were. He made eye contact with a certain one, a real beauty. They called her DPMS Oracle. And for a fair price, she was looking real good. After getting acquainted with one another, BCV made a offer. A Offer McBride's couldn't refuse. The girlfriend wasn't too happy to see this transaction and stormed out of the store to go wait in the vehicle. Roughly 30 minutes later, BCV walked out of the store with his brand new beauty he named Sara. Coincidentally enough, every firearm and car BCV had ever had also shared that name. When they made it back to the hotel they were staying at, BCV took to his new love interest, despite his current girlfriend being there. Weeks went by before BCV finally got to unleash Sara at the local gun club. He was in love, but there was something missing. A void of some sort. After hours and hundred of rounds later, he ran into a individual by the name of Bert. Bert introduced BCV into the virus that has taken over the AR world. This virus is known as "Magpul". The Magpul virus is a neurological disorder that stems from fanboyism family of viruses. Once the virus set in full force, BCV was in the hole on his credit card. He had to save up for weeks and weeks to recover. His relationship with his Girlfriend was fading because of this virus. BCV begin spending more money on Sara than his own girlfriend. She took this real hard. Months later and after several rounds of rehab for the Magpul virus in the form of bank statements, BCV begin to get his grip back on reality. That was until a young new sickness from South Carolina begin to make the rounds. This was a virus that the world had yet to see. Mil-spec rifles for incredibility great prices. This virus was known as the Palmetto State Armory Virus. A fast spreading, extremely expensive virus that seemed to the thrive off the Magpul virus. It wasn't long until BCV caught this virus. Just when he though he had recovered from the Magpul Virus, he was sick again, only this time it was much worse. You see, the "PSA" Virus was a fast moving, long dwelling one that would strike even the cheapest of cheapskates. Several thousand dollars later, BCV had come to terms with the PSA virus. He begin to experience the positive sides of the PSA virus. Although he had nearly gone bankrupt because of it, BCV was very happy with all the products having the PSA virus had brought to him. His girl friend on the other was not so happy. It turns out that the PSA virus had a reverse type effect on people. On would not have to have direct contact with it to suffer the consequences of it. Months later, BCV is doing just fine in this world. He is caught up on all his cards, owns 3 lovely AR's, Sarah, Sara, and Sarra. He has since made amends with his girlfriend in the form of expensive dinners at local steak house's and numerous flowers delivered to her office. The moral of the story that BCV learned was to have faith in the DPMS Oracle. It leads to seemingly costly repercussions, however it one is willing to muscle their way through the sickness, one will be alright! |
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Isn't Smith & Wesson owned by the same parent company? Freedom Arms? Correct me if I'm wrong. Also I would remind you that DPMS has been doing it a lot longer than Smith & Wesson. I have no experience with the M&P series myself, but Smith makes pretty much everything else nice so I would expect it to be quality as well. That being said it irks me when people go to talk about trusting x name over y name. I know people have their preferences but most of that "name" stuff is bullshit and we need to stop it. Let's judge each rifle one at a time. I take offense when people talk noise about DPMS. They gave me a quality product that never fails and shoots great. As a matter of fact got a buddy of mine with about $2500.00 tied up in an Armalite. And it is beautiful. It doesn't do a single thing better than my DPMS. It's called "Freedom Group." It is a subsidiary of Cerberus Capital. You need to understand that DPMS of today is not DPMS of old. They were bought out a while back, and their quality has gone way down since. We sold our last REAL DPMS three round burst kit just last year, and it was somewhat sad to see it go. It was our last old DPMS product. DPMS still makes great guns. For the overwhelming majority of shooters, they work great and will do so for as long as the shooter needs it to. Most shooters never leave the bench and maybe put a few hundred or more rounds through a gun in a year. And there's nothing at all wrong with that. A good DPMS will likely run and keep on running. However, the odds are higher that you will get a QC-caused problem with a DPMS than with a Noveske. For people like me who pretty much never shoot from a bench, a DPMS won't cut it for long. I will never, ever trust a DPMS disconnector––I have personally seen too many that were out of spec which led to hammer-follow (a very dangerous way to make you gun an illegal machine gun). I have seen more than one friend buy a DPMS only to field strip it to find bolt rings that are not even in the groove (bent and torn along the shaft of the bolt). My roommate started out with a DPMS AP4. It was a good gun for the money when he bought it a few years ago. However, today it's very hard to justify that sort of purchase. Too many better options are in the same price range. I don't buy Spikes, personally, but they make great guns, and they are in the same price range. New_AR_Guy mentioned the Smith and Wesson budget gun––that is one very good gun for the money. Look at what Palmetto State is selling nowadays––those prices are incredible. Will your DPMS work? Most likely. Could you get better for the same or slightly more money? Absolutely––no question. The "name" thing is not BS. It's experience. Especially when you're talking to someone like New_AR_Guy. He has more AR-15s on his wall than most people will shoot in their lives. He has a lot of experience with a lot of brands. He knows what works. And not just from a bench. Unless you're talking about SPRs, heh. This forum is full of people with a lot of knowledge. It and they are an incredible resource. Take advantage of the free knowledge. Do what you want in the end, but don't try to say these people don't know what they are talking about. |
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Isn't Smith & Wesson owned by the same parent company? Freedom Arms? Correct me if I'm wrong. Also I would remind you that DPMS has been doing it a lot longer than Smith & Wesson. I have no experience with the M&P series myself, but Smith makes pretty much everything else nice so I would expect it to be quality as well. That being said it irks me when people go to talk about trusting x name over y name. I know people have their preferences but most of that "name" stuff is bullshit and we need to stop it. Let's judge each rifle one at a time. I take offense when people talk noise about DPMS. They gave me a quality product that never fails and shoots great. As a matter of fact got a buddy of mine with about $2500.00 tied up in an Armalite. And it is beautiful. It doesn't do a single thing better than my DPMS. Speaking of people "talking noise"... 
You are wrong, and this does need correcting, in case someone else reads it and passes it along even further. No, S&W is not owned buy the same parent company. And the fact that DPMS has been building AR's a lot longer than Smith, in and of itself, means very, very little. The "name stuff", when thrown around carelessly (like when comparing how long one company has been doing it) is bullshit, but when looked at objectively, is not. For example, Because two guns look similar does not mean they are built similarly or with similar parts, or similar quality materials. DPMS and Smith have different standards, this is not a subjective statement, it's simply the truth. When used in this manner, the name of a brand DOES mean something. I fully realize the overwhelming majority of people who buy guns rarely shoot them, or shoot them enough to make much of a difference. But, if you were looking at two guns were in the same price, and one was built by a company who cared enough to put it through a series of quality control tests, and the other didn't, which would you choose? More importantly than which... WHY? Going back to my initial comment, it's true, I don't know a lot about Smith's new Sport line. This new, less expensive model from them *may* not (it might, I just don't know) in fact go through the same tests I know their standard line does (and none of the DPMS's do). But I have seen a lot of Smith rifles at classes and matches and very, very few of the many I have seen have had any problems. In contrast, I have seen a few DPMS rifles at the same classes and matches and their failure rate has been substantially higher. This, coupled with the fact that I have seen dozens of people asking to have their DPMS this or that fixed or repaired shapes my overall opinion. I would say at least a third of the time it's a brand new gun, right out of the box which isn't broken, it was just improperly assembled at the factory. This is why I would trust a Smith over a DPMS any day of any month of any year. If you have a DPMS and it is working for you, I am happy for you, all of you who do, in fact. Please, stay happy, shoot your guns and have fun. Your fun and enjoyment does nothing to change the guys who are having a difficult time with the DPMS guns, and proportionately speaking, there's a lot of them. Again, this does not mean you should change the way you feel about your one, or two DPMS guns. But when someone asks, I'm looking to get such and such a rifle, you also shouldn't keep your head in the sand to the problems many others have had because you enjoy yours. |
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Isn't Smith & Wesson owned by the same parent company? Freedom Arms? Correct me if I'm wrong. Also I would remind you that DPMS has been doing it a lot longer than Smith & Wesson. I have no experience with the M&P series myself, but Smith makes pretty much everything else nice so I would expect it to be quality as well. That being said it irks me when people go to talk about trusting x name over y name. I know people have their preferences but most of that "name" stuff is bullshit and we need to stop it. Let's judge each rifle one at a time. I take offense when people talk noise about DPMS. They gave me a quality product that never fails and shoots great. As a matter of fact got a buddy of mine with about $2500.00 tied up in an Armalite. And it is beautiful. It doesn't do a single thing better than my DPMS. Speaking of people "talking noise"...
You are wrong, and this does need correcting, in case someone else reads it and passes it along even further. No, S&W is not owned buy the same parent company. And the fact that DPMS has been building AR's a lot longer than Smith, in and of itself, means very, very little. The "name stuff", when thrown around carelessly (like when comparing how long one company has been doing it) is bullshit, but when looked at objectively, is not. For example, Because two guns look similar does not mean they are built similarly or with similar parts, or similar quality materials. DPMS and Smith have different standards, this is not a subjective statement, it's simply the truth. When used in this manner, the name of a brand DOES mean something. I fully realize the overwhelming majority of people who buy guns rarely shoot them, or shoot them enough to make much of a difference. But, if you were looking at two guns were in the same price, and one was built by a company who cared enough to put it through a series of quality control tests, and the other didn't, which would you choose? More importantly than which... WHY? Going back to my initial comment, it's true, I don't know a lot about Smith's new Sport line. This new, less expensive model from them *may* not (it might, I just don't know) in fact go through the same tests I know their standard line does (and none of the DPMS's do). But I have seen a lot of Smith rifles at classes and matches and very, very few of the many I have seen have had any problems. In contrast, I have seen a few DPMS rifles at the same classes and matches and their failure rate has been substantially higher. This, coupled with the fact that I have seen dozens of people asking to have their DPMS this or that fixed or repaired shapes my overall opinion. I would say at least a third of the time it's a brand new gun, right out of the box which isn't broken, it was just improperly assembled at the factory. This is why I would trust a Smith over a DPMS any day of any month of any year. If you have a DPMS and it is working for you, I am happy for you, all of you who do, in fact. Please, stay happy, shoot your guns and have fun. Your fun and enjoyment does nothing to change the guys who are having a difficult time with the DPMS guns, and proportionately speaking, there's a lot of them. Again, this does not mean you should change the way you feel about your one, or two DPMS guns. But when someone asks, I'm looking to get such and such a rifle, you also shouldn't keep your head in the sand to the problems many others have had because you enjoy yours. Well, I appreciate you setting me straight. If I offended you then good, that makes two of us. I was merely responding to your words, not mine. You said you didn't own either. That being said, I do. Your right though. All I have to go on is what I have experienced myself along with others that I know. Truth be told you don't work in either factory and just about whatever "test" you claim one or the other is doing is mere speculation. I will not say they don't have problems. Even I know they can put out a bad one every now and then. But when you put out as many as they do in a years time I would imagine there would be a higher probability for faults versus another brand that doesn't produce a quarter the guns. But that's just speculation on my part. And there isn't such a thing as a good excuse for poor craftsmanship. But it happens and that's the nature of the beast. Doesn't matter what it is, the bad is always going to outshine the good. In your experience that is exactly what has happened. In my limited experience the exact opposite. |
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Isn't Smith & Wesson owned by the same parent company? Freedom Arms? Correct me if I'm wrong. Also I would remind you that DPMS has been doing it a lot longer than Smith & Wesson. I have no experience with the M&P series myself, but Smith makes pretty much everything else nice so I would expect it to be quality as well. That being said it irks me when people go to talk about trusting x name over y name. I know people have their preferences but most of that "name" stuff is bullshit and we need to stop it. Let's judge each rifle one at a time. I take offense when people talk noise about DPMS. They gave me a quality product that never fails and shoots great. As a matter of fact got a buddy of mine with about $2500.00 tied up in an Armalite. And it is beautiful. It doesn't do a single thing better than my DPMS. Speaking of people "talking noise"...
You are wrong, and this does need correcting, in case someone else reads it and passes it along even further. No, S&W is not owned buy the same parent company. And the fact that DPMS has been building AR's a lot longer than Smith, in and of itself, means very, very little. The "name stuff", when thrown around carelessly (like when comparing how long one company has been doing it) is bullshit, but when looked at objectively, is not. For example, Because two guns look similar does not mean they are built similarly or with similar parts, or similar quality materials. DPMS and Smith have different standards, this is not a subjective statement, it's simply the truth. When used in this manner, the name of a brand DOES mean something. I fully realize the overwhelming majority of people who buy guns rarely shoot them, or shoot them enough to make much of a difference. But, if you were looking at two guns were in the same price, and one was built by a company who cared enough to put it through a series of quality control tests, and the other didn't, which would you choose? More importantly than which... WHY? Going back to my initial comment, it's true, I don't know a lot about Smith's new Sport line. This new, less expensive model from them *may* not (it might, I just don't know) in fact go through the same tests I know their standard line does (and none of the DPMS's do). But I have seen a lot of Smith rifles at classes and matches and very, very few of the many I have seen have had any problems. In contrast, I have seen a few DPMS rifles at the same classes and matches and their failure rate has been substantially higher. This, coupled with the fact that I have seen dozens of people asking to have their DPMS this or that fixed or repaired shapes my overall opinion. I would say at least a third of the time it's a brand new gun, right out of the box which isn't broken, it was just improperly assembled at the factory. This is why I would trust a Smith over a DPMS any day of any month of any year. If you have a DPMS and it is working for you, I am happy for you, all of you who do, in fact. Please, stay happy, shoot your guns and have fun. Your fun and enjoyment does nothing to change the guys who are having a difficult time with the DPMS guns, and proportionately speaking, there's a lot of them. Again, this does not mean you should change the way you feel about your one, or two DPMS guns. But when someone asks, I'm looking to get such and such a rifle, you also shouldn't keep your head in the sand to the problems many others have had because you enjoy yours. Well, I appreciate you setting me straight. If I offended you then good, that makes two of us. I was merely responding to your words, not mine. You said you didn't own either. That being said, I do. Your right though. All I have to go on is what I have experienced myself along with others that I know. Truth be told you don't work in either factory and just about whatever "test" you claim one or the other is doing is mere speculation. I will not say they don't have problems. Even I know they can put out a bad one every now and then. But when you put out as many as they do in a years time I would imagine there would be a higher probability for faults versus another brand that doesn't produce a quarter the guns. But that's just speculation on my part. And there isn't such a thing as a good excuse for poor craftsmanship. But it happens and that's the nature of the beast. Doesn't matter what it is, the bad is always going to outshine the good. In your experience that is exactly what has happened. In my limited experience the exact opposite. I'm not offended, I'm hurt. Only because bad info hurts for me to read. Any your post is full of it (bad info). The tests are not speculation on my part. HP testing, MP testing, the quality of metal used in the barrel and bolt group... all of this is very real. It all makes a difference when the guns are used enough to tell. The two companies use different standards when it comes to these things. Like I said, this is not subjective... it's just a fact. The only subjective thing about it is your reaction to it. I'm happy to continue to discuss this with you, or anyone, but if we hope to get anything out of it, it would be good to stick to facts like these, which WILL show tangible differences in rifles which otherwise look the same. |
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This may clear up some things. A very informative page can be found here....
They do MPI testing on barrels and bolts. DPMS how they do it? |
| I'm very familiar with batch testing. Honestly, there is at times debate on how useful some of these tests actually are, but if you batch test it, how many are tested in what size batch? 1 in 20? 1 of 50? 1 of 100, 1,000? I'm genuinely curious to know. Also curious to know if the Smith Sport line does these tests. |
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BCV, that was a beautiful story man... You should write a novel about BRD.
My BRD comes and goes... Its been flaring up recently with new purchases of an ACOG, LaRue mounts, Eagle Industries drag bag, and a new LMT MRP barrel. Unlike you, I don't have a girlfriend/wife to keep the sickness in check. I also have these strange urges to purchase a SCAR 17S, despite the scalper prices gun dealers are charging for them (assuming you can even find one). |
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I'm very familiar with batch testing. Honestly, there is at times debate on how useful some of these tests actually are, but if you batch test it, how many are tested in what size batch? 1 in 20? 1 of 50? 1 of 100, 1,000? I'm genuinely curious to know. Also curious to know if the Smith Sport line does these tests. Remember many Friday nights ago when Zach's lightweight carbine was randomly bursting when he was trying to zero? After taking it apart and examining parts next to known good parts, we determined the DPMS disconnector was dimensionally out of spec enough to cause hammer follow. |
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