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Posted: 1/9/2024 11:53:02 PM EDT
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I recently got the DD RISIII lower since it looks so good. I actually got the whole rifle but resold the upper to recover some of my cost. The one thing that I didn't catch up on at the store was the left side bolt paddle. I went home and noticed that it did not match up with what they have on their promotional photos. Here is what I got...  But here is their website... https://danieldefense.com/dd4-riii.html If you notice the left side paddle has a bit more space on the bottom nudge on it. The one I got works fine but because it doesn't have the full bottom it doesn't go all the way up. It still works when you want to hold the bolt open. I also notice many other pictures that seem to show the actual lower having the bottom paddle missing. A good example is on Charlie's custom clone site https://charliescustomclones.com/daniel-defense-riii-full-ambi-complete-lower-receiver/ where it mixes both the DD promotional images showing the full paddle and the actual end product with the bottom paddle missing. I'm also noticing youtubers videos having the DD RIS III lowers without the full paddle. However, all early videos where they were promoting the product it shows the full paddle. Any ideas why DD did that? Or do they just hate us? It's not really a super deal breaker but I just find it odd they wouldn't do the full paddle. |
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Here's an example of their earlier promotion video: https://youtu.be/S0d7_qEuffg?si=luTlkoR_VjXya000&t=63 Then compare that to the actual review.... https://youtu.be/FHQh7GmkaOA?si=r_HOIMXbMIGTU1ry&t=60 If you look at the left side paddle, the earlier promotion video has the full paddle but the actual product has the missing bottom piece. Very unusual DD did this and suddenly changed their product. |
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I’ve never understood this strong desire to have a large bolt catch engagement pad. The only time you will ever use it is to make the weapon safe. Well, if I’m making it safe, then any “threat” has long passed and I have all the time in the world available to me. Last thing I want is a large pad in the way when I need to release the bolt after a mag change. That is when this one component actually matters in a life or death situation. I’m guessing you’re a southpaw like me since you bought the ambi lower. I love how my trigger finger can reach up and release the bolt. That large pad just gets in the way. |
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As a lefty, I press the lower pad of the bolt catch with my trigger finger to lock open the bolt all the time (and hit the top pad to drop the bolt) I had to look close, but I see what the OP is talking about. It appears the raised nub on the lower that holds the roll pin that retains the bolt catch is a lot bigger than that of a milspec lower, and it looks like the super small lower pad on the bolt catch in some of the pictures may not be able to be pressed in easily from the left side of the rifle due to the size of the nub on the lower. The other pictures with the larger lower pad on the bolt catch, it looks like there is more clearance and it can be pressed in. It is hard to say from just pictures; would need to hold one to verify, but I agree it would be highly annoying to the point of being a deal breaker for me if I can't lock open the bolt with my trigger finger like I can on any milspec lower. Potentially it could be remedied just by making the longer-pad bolt catch available? But impossible to tell for sure without holding one. It's never occurred to me that a larger lower pad could be in the way of the upper pad since they are so far apart. Personally I've never had any issue with this; the reach is to a completely different spot. The only clearance issue I've ever had as far as that goes is the Geissele maritime bolt catch (has a large lower pad) having minimal clearance between the lower pad and mag catch when installed with a Norgon ambi mag catch. These components do fit together on the lower and work, but the lower pad of the Geissele bolt catch, and the button on the Norgon ambi mag catch are extremely close together and feel virtually the same, so I swapped out to a milspec bolt catch on my factory GSD so it feels like all my other lowers. |
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Quoted: "Did DD lie to us"? Seriously? Lighten up Francis. It took me 5 minutes of staring at the pics to even figure out what you were complaining about. This kind of whining about nothing is a perfect example of why I'd probably hate working in this industry  The design change causes the bolt catch to not fully engage the bolt. I'm looking at it carefully and it's engaging the bottom two lugs and partially the bolt's face. Doing it by hand would probably cause nothing serious to happen but since it is not fully engage that means if the range calls for a cold range, my bolt could slam forward. Regardless of what my reason is if they promote a product with something on it, then shouldn't the end product I get look exactly like that? If you got a car, you saw on the promotional video it has something on it, then you got the car and it doesn't have it, would you be happy regardless of it being superficial or not? If you caught it at the store you can make a determination if you want to go with it, but once you walk out the door, you have no choice but to be happy with it or not. It's not like you can go back to the gun store and say you want your money back as most places won't let you. |
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Thanks, I posted on there. Maybe they can send the actual left side bolt catch to customers who noticed this and would like to activate the bolt catch fully. |
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Quoted: If you got a car, you saw on the promotional video it has something on it, then you got the car and it doesn't have it, would you be happy regardless of it being superficial or not? If you caught it at the store you can make a determination if you want to go with it, but once you walk out the door, you have no choice but to be happy with it or not. It's not like you can go back to the gun store and say you want your money back as most places won't let you. So, you're saying you should have caught it at the store... And to use your analogy...yes, car makers often make changes between filming promo videos for vehicles and the actual production models (and sometimes make running changes during model year runs). Not sure how you turn "I overlooked this detail" into "I was lied to". |
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Quoted: So, you're saying you should have caught it at the store... And to use your analogy...yes, car makers often make changes between filming promo videos for vehicles and the actual production models (and sometimes make running changes during model year runs). Not sure how you turn "I overlooked this detail" into "I was lied to". Not sure how these threads turn from “a design change modified the function of the rifle” to a “it’s not a big deal because everyone gets lied to.” And yes it is hard to pick up small details like that until you use it. The bolt catch is not fully engaging the bolts surface so it’s absolutely a deal for me. I only started investigating when I tried to lock the bolt back and realized it felt like it wasn’t fully going up and started to look into it more and see a rather small but significant detail difference. I’ll wait to see what DD has to say if anything but I’m guessing if someone like you works there I’m screwed. |
| I just recently put together an ambi lower. I toggled back and forth between 2 specific "enhanced" bolt catches, and ended up opting for the Forward Controls Design version. It has a raised lower nub to easily catch the bolt with the left trigger finger, but doesn't crowd the ambi mag release like the ones with larger catch pads. |
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Quoted: The design change causes the bolt catch to not fully engage the bolt. I'm looking at it carefully and it's engaging the bottom two lugs and partially the bolt's face. Doing it by hand would probably cause nothing serious to happen but since it is not fully engage that means if the range calls for a cold range, my bolt could slam forward. Maybe it’s been a long day for me already but can you post a pic of what you are talking about here? The way I’m reading and interpreting is that because of the change of shape of the bolt catch it changes how it holds the bolt back and you are worried about unintentionally dropping the bolt at a cold range? |
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Quoted: Maybe it’s been a long day for me already but can you post a pic of what you are talking about here? The way I’m reading and interpreting is that because of the change of shape of the bolt catch it changes how it holds the bolt back and you are worried about unintentionally dropping the bolt at a cold range? Yeah man. So here's a good shot of it from what I see. The image on the left is where the bolt catch is fully activated and it all the way up. The one of the right, is where you press down on it normally and it only activates partially because it can't go all the way down. You might say I could do the pressing as I do on the left, but keep in mind I'm digging into my nails and having to figure out best way to place my thumb. If the bolt catch was exactly as DD sold it in their promotional video, I believe it would be raised enough to fully activate just as it is on the right side. You can notice a subtle, but somewhat significant difference on the image in the right vs the one on the left. It's hard to take a picture of the bolt's face but the one on the right it is covering the two bottom lugs and about 1/4th of the bolt's face, whereas the one on the left is covering about half of the bolt's face as it should be. 
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I looked at a standard non-DD lower that I have and it only engages the bottom 2 lugs of the bolt both by hand and with an empty mag pushing the bolt catch upwards. I think unless you purposely push the bolt release it should hold just fine because all standard ars work the same way and I’ve never heard of one going back into battery in their own. Now having the extra coverage wouldn’t be bad and they did change the bolt catch quite a bit but I don’t think functionally it’ll be a problem. |
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Quoted: I looked at a standard non-DD lower that I have and it only engages the bottom 2 lugs of the bolt both by hand and with an empty mag pushing the bolt catch upwards. I think unless you purposely push the bolt release it should hold just fine because all standard ars work the same way and I’ve never heard of one going back into battery in their own. Now having the extra coverage wouldn’t be bad and they did change the bolt catch quite a bit but I don’t think functionally it’ll be a problem. You're probably right. I did compare my other standard AR lower, and I'm able to press the bolt catch all the way in without issue. However, I have a bad lever on it so it's probably aiding in the angle that it is raising. Still though, it seems odd DD would change the paddle without informing the end customer that they made such a change. It's a small difference, yes, and perhaps meaning nothing but it is making a noticeable difference in how the bolt is stopped. I do think you'd notice the concerns if you can compare what your current bolt coverage is vs what this one is doing depending on how far/deep you're able to press it. Seems like they went from a sure thing to something that's probably not bad but not 100%. |
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Quoted: Lol. I find it ironic that you find this funny when you're the guy who goes on clone threads and try to make the exact same rifle the military uses and you're trying to say that because DD shows one picture that shows a minor difference that I'm being nitpicky especially when such a difference makes a functional change to the rifle's behavior. Especially ironic from someone who requests pictures to copy their clone rifles with. |
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The standard milspec bolt catch only engages up just past the bottom two lugs to about where the bolt face starts... I've never seen one that engages anywhere close to half the bolt. Also any of them are subject to dropping on their own if the rifle is sufficiently bumped. Did Daniel Defense lie to you... a promotional video is not a direct communication to you promising anything specific, so no. Many companies in many industries make promotional videos of pre-production hardware which is tweaked prior to making it to production. What pictures were directly associated with the unit that you bought at the time you bought it? If that material shows a longer lower paddle, then I would say you have a gripe... not one likely to go anywhere, but still a legit gripe. Does the bolt catch engage the entire height of the bottom two lugs when you press on it normally? If yes, it basically matches what the mispec catch does; I would say it isn't a problem and shoot it. If no, I would look to see if there is an alternate part available that would work, and if not, I'd sell the lower. |
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Quoted: The standard milspec bolt catch only engages up just past the bottom two lugs to about where the bolt face starts... I've never seen one that engages anywhere close to half the bolt. Also any of them are subject to dropping on their own if the rifle is sufficiently bumped. Did Daniel Defense lie to you... a promotional video is not a direct communication to you promising anything specific, so no. Many companies in many industries make promotional videos of pre-production hardware which is tweaked prior to making it to production. What pictures were directly associated with the unit that you bought at the time you bought it? If that material shows a longer lower paddle, then I would say you have a gripe... not one likely to go anywhere, but still a legit gripe. Does the bolt catch engage the entire height of the bottom two lugs when you press on it normally? If yes, it basically matches what the mispec catch does; I would say it isn't a problem and shoot it. If no, I would look to see if there is an alternate part available that would work, and if not, I'd sell the lower. You did let me come up with an idea. The manual itself lists the parts and it's hard to tell from the photo but you can see the left side bolt catch having the full surface. Very odd that they changed the design and they have so many promotional items out there. I disagree that the final product would appear different. You're right that they don't make a promise that the item is exactly that but promoting an item and giving an item that is significantly different is in fact fraud. I guess since in this case it does its job of locking the bolt back, albeit not fully as it should be, is passable. There are numerous gaming products being sued for by people who get a completely different product than the one they promoted.  Based on the diagram though it looks like a standard bolt catch. I wonder if I could swap it with a larger one like the badger one? Would be interesting but I suppose its best to wait for DD to see what they have to say. |
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Well, you can contact your lawyer and get a class action lawsuit going for "fraud", or you can check out this FCD catch mentioned above which I didn't know existed until this thread, but looks like it might be just what you need if the catch itself is otherwise milspec: https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/ABCR-v3-Augmented-Bolt-Catch-Release_p_237.html Or sell it and move on. If it engages the bottom two lugs of the bolt, it is functioning normally/per how a milspec lower functions. |
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Quoted: Well, you can contact your lawyer and get a class action lawsuit going for "fraud", or you can check out this FCD catch mentioned above which I didn't know existed until this thread, but looks like it might be just what you need if the catch itself is otherwise milspec: https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/ABCR-v3-Augmented-Bolt-Catch-Release_p_237.html Or sell it and move on. If it engages the bottom two lugs of the bolt, it is functioning normally/per how a milspec lower functions. That would be pretty crazy on my part. All I'm trying to say is that it's different from what they promoted. Does it work? Yes it does. Is that good enough? Maybe. Does it explain why DD decided to do that? No it doesn't. Are they trying to commit massive fraud? Doubtful. Is it possible due to supplier restraints that they went with a different bolt catch? Maybe but they should inform the end user that they switched a product and explain why instead of just being quiet about it hoping no one would catch on. |
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Quoted: Still though, it seems odd DD would change the paddle without informing the end customer that they made such a change. It's a small difference, yes, and perhaps meaning nothing but it is making a noticeable difference in how the bolt is stopped. |
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