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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Disabling the Forward Assist (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/8/2007 2:04:38 PM EDT
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I have read on at least one vendor's site that he disables the forward assist and hints about some doom and gloom about having it there. Can anyone elaborate on the doom and gloom. Personally, I've never used the thing. Granted as a tanker, the trips to the M16 range were few and far between, but I would have thought that the severely worn out M16A1s in basic (1987) would have shown all of the warts an M16 could show. |
It's on Anvil Arms page under their description of their carbine, one of the options is:
I forgot to ask Jon when I had him there when I got my lowers from him. This is NOT a slam on Anvil Arms, but a genuine "I'm curious" question. |
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I prefer ARs w/o a forward assist. If a round doesn't want to seat, anc can't e seated with finger pressure on the bolt, rack it and try another round. Talking to trainers who see millions of rounds fired a year, the forward assist causes more trouble than it is worth, adds weight, adds something else to get hung up on... Is there b/c of political issues related to the initial bad ammo for the M-16... Etc. Don't have it, never missed it. |
This is one malfunction I've never even heard of. FWIW, I've used the FA a few times with crappy ammo/dirty chamber to good effect. |
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I use my forward assist every day I go hunting. I follow up the charging handle then push the bolts forward assist to lock it. I cant see walking quietly in the woods getting up in your tree or ground blind then pulling back a charging handle and letting it fly, making an unnaturaly loud noise. Me and the little ones  It's a 50 beowulf by the way Maybe the gunsmith is advising you not to use it to force a defective cartridge into the chamber...... |
Couldn't you just push the carrier forward with your finger in the indentation that pops open the port cover? I suppose it is contrary to prefered practice when stand hunting, but you could always chamber a round and leave the weapon on safe before you hit the field. |
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I never climb a tree with a loaded chamber. You are only one mechanical device away from blowing your head off. With regards to Ground blind hunting I have to cross roads and such which requires me to unload. If I am hunting close I charge my rifle before hitting the field. The thumb on the side of the carrier works but why not use the forward assist if you have one. |
I believe they're saying that if the spring breaks, the pawl can slide forward and engage the teeth on the carrier, jamming the gun. I do not believe this can happen. Try it yourself - with an unloaded rifle, hold the forward assist pawl with your thumb while pulling back on the charging handle with the other hand. The carrier simply pushes the pawl back and continues. The pawl can't catch the teeth on the carrier forward stroke because of the angles designed in. Unless there's something that I'm missing, I don't see how the FA pawl can jam the gun. |
The forward assist is, I think, more about dirty chambers and dirty ammo - a "well-broken-in" weapon that was cleaned properly wouldn't require the forward assist. As an old USAF weenie (I first qualified with the M-16 (not A1) at Amarillo in 1968), I am skeptical about the necessity. I don't have any religious objections, I just think it's irrelevant almost all of the time. |
I'd just like to say that, from what I've experienced, Jon knows his stuff. I dont agree that the forward assist could break, but I dont think we should be bad-mouthing him until we hear what this is actually about. Maybe the OP should have EMAILED Anvil Arms before posting here and making it seem like AA is a bunch of "ex-SEALS"..
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Actually kinda makes sense...on a 9mm AR. IIRC 9mm bolts lack forward assist notches (Colt/Rock River style) & the factory guns were slicksided. Why have the extra weight if it doesn't do anything? |
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Personal experience: Parris Island, SC 1992, Boot Camp - Combat Assault Course You start off in an old helicopter body on an old runway, and "assault" into a mocked-up fort. Crawl through ditches of water, soaking you and your weapon, climb walls, low crawl through sand as quarter sticks of dynamite are exploded in pits around you, blowing sand everywhere. You're firing blanks the whole time. There was M-60s set up, firing blanks all around, battle sounds blasting from speakers, screams, yells, etc. Everything went well until the sand showers from the dynamite. Caused a jam - the bolt didn't close all the way. I hit the forward assist, and the bolt closed. I got one or two more shots, then another jam. I hit the forward assist, the bolt would not close. Banging on the forward assist, the bolt would not close. I was done firing until I could break the rifle down and get the sand out of the receiver. After that stretch was a bayonet assault course, where I broke a hand guard, causing both to pop off, but that's another story...
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+1 That's what Eugene Stoner thought, that's what the Marines thought and that's what the Airforce thought. The Army had a longstanding requirement for a way to manually close the bolt if operating spring pressure did not close it all the way. I don't know what they teach now, but when I was in Basic, the immediate action drill taught by the army was to (1) pull back the charging handle, (2) inspect the chamber, (3) release the operating handle, and then (4) hit the forward assist a couple times. IMO, if the bolt doesn't close on step (3), forcing it closed might not be a good idea. OTOH, I don't think an FA is likely to cause a problem. |
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I remember some couch commando saying that he refuses to use it because it brings his trigger hand off the trigger and that he disabled his by putting a blocker in it's place. Personally, I used mine (0311 USMC) on more than one occasion. My thing is, if you need to use the FA in a tatical situation, then having your trigger hand off the grip is the least of your worries. He did make one good point, it would be better if FA was on the left hand side. I'd buy that upper and BCG. Hardwarz |
SPORTS S- Slap the bottom of the magazine P- Pull back the charging handle O- Observe the chamber area R- Release the charging handle T- Tap the forward assist several times to fully seat the bolt S- Shoot |
I sell the plug, and have one installed in my SBR. I dont believe I've ever posted advocating others should remove their FA? I never used my FA, so I plugged it. I've gone without the FA for over 10K suppressed rounds including a few classes with out issue. |
The OP is not slamming Jon. I even said so explicitly,
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I knew somebody would mention this, but the reason given by Muskyjerk for doing this was to quietly chamber a round, not to close the bolt in the middle of a firefight. In this case since he is trying to be as quite as possible, it is assumed that the gun probably hasn't been fired yet. |
I'll do it in the middle of a firefight... if it's an HK 416! 
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As to "using your fingers" to push a bolt closed through the ejection port, aside from the fact that you'd probably leave some skin on the BC if you tried this after a bit of firing, there's really nowhere to get a good grip-the depression for the ejection port cover detent is just that-a depression. The FA has leverage and thus a real mechanical advantage when you push it. It's really the ONLY effective way to nudge a carrier all the way forward. |
I'll agree with you that it's perhaps the only effective way to nudge it all the way forward if there is some sort of obstruction (dirt, sand, carbon, etc), but if you are simply trying to do a "press check" or the like in a quiet manner, a little finger pressure on the indentation of the carrier is more than enough to ensure that it is pushed properly into battery. This still leaves the question of the merit of pushing the bolt/carrier home when there is something otherwise preventing it from doing so, but as I've never had to do this while in combat or the like, I don't really have a dog in this fight and can't speak from experience either way. |
For us lefties.....it is in the ideal location |
Thanks  It's been 24 years...
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So, when you perform a press check to make sure a round is chambered how do you guarantee that the bolt is forward and completely rotated? Do you push the carrier forward with your finger? |
Based on this logic, you should remove the buffer detent... |
I know a guy that does that. The lower reciever that his company makes seems to do that fairly often. He claimed to have seen four dozen cases. |
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Bolt assist is there to reseat the bolt after it has been backed off to allow water to drain from the barrel. Water doesn't drain worth a damn from a 22 barrel that has been submerged (it will from a 30 cal barrel, though). Lots of water at Uncle Ho's place. As for forcing a bolt forward on a round that was giving me 'issues' ...I'd rather strip that round out than turn my rifle into a one-shooter. |
The buffer detent usually fails because of out of spec lowers. Tell him his company makes a crap lower if the buffer detent keeps breaking in them. The detent is there for a creason. Once the two halves are closed, there should be no contact between the buffer and the detent in an in-spec lower. |
HAH! I just thinking about making one myself for my soon to own 45 upper! |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Disabling the Forward Assist (Page 1 of 2)
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