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Posted: 3/3/2007 12:44:44 AM EDT
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I have an M4orgery that works fine until I install an Enidine buffer I recently purchased. For some reason it won't feed the next round in the mag... it won't even pick up the next round let alone feed it. The mag is not in question and standard American eagle ammo 55gr. The gun again has functioned fine and when the original parts are reinstalled it again runs fine. I'm at a loss. It's a carbine length gas system. 14.5 bushy barrel. CMT flattop upper, ACE rifle length stock. I put a rifle length Enidine buffer in it with a rifle length spring and even tried a carbine length spring . Nothing helped. I put the Enidine into a midlength SPR I have and it functioned fine. Could it be the carbine gas system? and maybe I could use a carbine Enidine buffer ??? It is a rifle length buffer tube however. I don't know. Any help/experience/suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks ,Evil |
Sorry, but if the rifle isn't broken, then why are you trying to fix it with a different buffer? If you shove a standard full-length buffer in a carbine stock (receiver extension), the bolt will not retract back far enough to lock open on the last round. If you shove in a full-length buffer that has a back end plunger into the same, you will/would be lucking if the bolt even makes it back far enough to even think about stripping a round out of the mag (hence your SPR has a full length stock doesn’t it). As for wanting to make a enidine carbine buffer work in the rifle, yes I can direct you how to do this, but its going to be counter-productive since you will be making the rifle over function is stock form, only to have the carbine enidine buffer bring the mess back into tune. |
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Hello- The rifle in question is mine. I've just been waiting to get my account info to post here. Evilrp is a good friend of mine and is much more technically savvy than I. As he said, its a 14.5" Bushy barrel on a CMT upper, with a carbine length gas system and an ACE rifle length skele stock; I had been using a carbine length spring and buffer, and the rifle functioned fine. I will confess, however, to being one of those people who just can't get past the "sproing" noise every time I squeeze the trigger. So I thought I'd drop in an Enidine buffer. Seeing as it is a rifle length stock, I ordered a rifle length buffer. When we dropped the buffer and rifle length spring in, the rifle short stroked and was scoring the case of the next round badly. Replacing the Enidine buffer and longer spring with the carbine buffer/spring returned the rifle to its previous working condition. The question is since it is a carbine length gas system, will a carbine length Enidine buffer function? Or am I hosed on this one? Thanks for the help/suggestions/feedback. I've been lurking on AR15.com for a while, and just recently got around to signing up for a login. Thanks again, Gael |
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The barrel/ gas tube length has nothing to do with the buffer. The buffer needed length is determined by the length of the receiver extension (buffer tube) alone. Carbine receiver extensions (buffer stocks) uses the shorter buffer (carrier reaward limiter) where as full length stocks use the longer buffer (carrier reaward limiter). Simply, barring some of the other minor functions of the buffer, the main stay of the buffer is to limit the distance that the B/C can move bck into the receiver. If the longer buffer is used in a carbine receiver extension (tube), then the bolt face will not move far enough back to the back of the ejection port/behind the top round in the mag. On the other hand, if you use a carbine buffer in a full/fixed stock, then the bolt face can stroke back father than the back of the ejection port, and this allows the back of the key to make contact with the back of the receiver (read will crack the lower receiver). www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/buffers/ Now for your question of if the correct length endine buffer will work in your rifle, it all depends on the gas system. If you gas pulse is healthy enough to allow the heaver buffer to work, you should be fine. If not, they you are back at square one, and that is you may have to increase the size of the barrel gas port to make the buffer work in your rig. P.S. Gaelrond, Welcome to the site!!! |
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The endine buffers are can be finicky with some types of ammo. American eagle ammo is on the weak side for ammo, I have a feeling that if you were to try some m855 or m193 in your rifle, it would work. The rifle buffer may be designed for the recoil impulse of a rifle length gas system and the carbine buffer for the carbine length gas system. I have no data to verify this, but hydraulic systems are can be more effected by the rate of loading than simple springs are due to the viscosity of the hydraulic fluid. |
It’s a length issue, not a gas pulse issue. Simply, the endine buffer has a end of stoke plunger that slows the buffer down at the end of rearward stoke, slowing down the complete cycle stroke (lock to lock) in a full auto rig to slow down the full auto fire rate. Regarding length, again the main purpose of the buffer is a carrier limiter, where as the buffer length unit is short since the carbine buffer tube is shorter. |
As stated, he has a full-length buffer, and it trying to use it in a carbine length receiver extension. It's not the problem of the stroke strength, but the simple fact that the bolt face is never going to move back in the receiver far enough alone to work correctly. |
Actually, it was a rifle-length Enidine buffer in a rifle length receiver extension. The ACE Stock I have is a rifle length with a full length buffer tube- my gas system is carbine length, however. A standard rifle-length buffer I tried functions normally in the rifle. The carbine length buffer I used to have in there was allowing the BCG to impact the lower receiver, as you mentioned in a previous post, causing a very slight peening of the edge of the lower. I haven't put that many rounds through the rifle yet, or else it could have been much much worse. So the bottom line at the moment is that I have a standard rifle length buffer that is functioning normally. My rifle works as intended with a standard buffer in, but not with the full length Enidine buffer. Thanks for all the replies and suggestions, it's been helpful; Dano, you've prevented further damage to my lower! I never even considered that the BCG could actually impact the lower receiver if the buffer is too short. So I'm back to square one really- I have a fully functional rifle. I'd still like to see how the Enidine does, but if it's going to short stroke I guess I'm SOL. Thanks again! |
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And now I'm stuck with this enidine buffer that works so nicely in my SPR... oh well.. All in th name of science. As Jamie (Gaelrond) said Dano we appreciate your insight. Never really thought about potential damage from a shorter buffer. A very good lesson learned. The fact that Gaels rifle won't cycle the Enidine buffer is THAT a gas pulse issue ? It functions fine with a standard rifle buffer. |
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I have been using the Enidine carbine buffers in my carbines with great success. They really seem to soften the recoil impulse. Sicne the gun jumps around less it allows faster follow up shots. They aren't for every gun, though. I have a 20" Bushy with rifle length buttstock that tends to be finicky. It tends to short stroke with Wolf and other light ammo. It works great with American Eagle and M193, though. Installing a rifle length Enidine buffer made it even more finicky, though, so I'm sticking with the standard buffer in that rifle. But, like I said, I'm very happy with the cabine version. Since the piston on the Enidine buffer is depressed by the bolt carrier at the end of the rearward stroke when the carrier has lost most of it's energy, it only stands to reason that, if the rifle/ammo combination is on the borderline of being 100% function, the addition of the extra energy needed to fully depress the piston may cause short strocking, or make an existing problem worse. |
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