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Posted: 1/23/2013 10:21:52 AM EDT
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I'm looking to upgrade my extractor spring and was wondering if there's a specific kit or spring that is considered best? I was considering the 3-piece Sprinco kit (spring + insert + O-ring) and the single piece Tubbs extractor spring. Any recommendations?
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It’s the internet, best is in the eye of the beholder.
Unless you are running a SBR it is very unlikely you need the o-ring. The BCM HD spring with the black insert is overkill for a rifle and more than enough for any 14.5”/16”carbine I have seen. BCM even tells you they include the o-ring for the few who need it. I am currently running BCM springs, but I have picked up a number of Brownell’s CS extractor springs. IMO Tubb’s springs are really good. I have not tried his AR extractor spring so I can’t really comment on it specifically. |
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It’s the internet, best is in the eye of the beholder. Unless you are running a SBR it is very unlikely you need the o-ring. The BCM HD spring with the black insert is overkill for a rifle and more than enough for any 14.5”/16”carbine I have seen. BCM even tells you they include the o-ring for the few who need it. I am currently running BCM springs, but I have picked up a number of Brownell’s CS extractor springs. IMO Tubb’s springs are really good. I have not tried his AR extractor spring so I can’t really comment on it specifically. The rifle-spring + O-ring + Black buffer will work perfectly on every combination, when paired with a normal mil-spec ejector spring. SBR, Rifle, Middy, Carbine. |
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I have no doubt it works.
I just prefer to use a CS spring that will probably outlast the extractor and bolt. How perfect using the o-ring may be would be one of those eyes of the beholder things. I have played around with the o-ring and I did not like the way it worked. One of the great things about these weapons is there are a bunch of aftermarket goodies we get to play with and we can set up our weapons how we like. |
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I have no doubt it works. I just prefer to use a CS spring that will probably outlast the extractor and bolt. How perfect using the o-ring may be would be one of those eyes of the beholder things. I have played around with the o-ring and I did not like the way it worked. One of the great things about these weapons is there are a bunch of aftermarket goodies we get to play with and we can set up our weapons how we like. I would recommend the Colt "gold" spring over the CS spring. It is better designed. There is a lot that goes into designing a spring, more than just heat-treat and wire diameter and material, but mechanical properties, as well. |
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I am always open to better, so under the circumstances I have to ask. What evidence is there that the Colt spring is a better design than BCM’s, Tubb’s, or for that matter any other high quality supplier’s spring? RSilvers has run all of the data through a $700 engineering program and of all the "high powered" springs he tested, the Colt spring is operating under the least stress in the dynamic environment that it lives in. It provides 200% the force of a standard spring, without too much more stress on it, itself. Colt knew what they were doing. They didn't just make a thicker wire or add another coil. |
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http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Extractor-Spring-Uprade-Kit-p/bcm%20extractor%20spring%20upgrade.htm
or http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Extractor-Spring-Uprade-Kit-p/bcm%20extractor%20spring%20%203pack.htm install the spring and bumper and leave the o ring in your tool box. O ring is not needed |
| Not to steal the thread, I got the BCM upgrade kit and AM using the o-ring in a 16" bushy. Is there a reason I shouldn't be, it has been %100 reliable since I inserted it. Is it hurting anything? Could it hurt anything other than maybe ripping the bottom of a shell casing? |
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Not to steal the thread, I got the BCM upgrade kit and AM using the o-ring in a 16" bushy. Is there a reason I shouldn't be, it has been %100 reliable since I inserted it. Is it hurting anything? Could it hurt anything other than maybe ripping the bottom of a shell casing? When the gun gets dirty and slows down it may fail to snap over the case rim and seat the bolt fully. It could cause problems with overpowering the ejector spring at some point leaving cases on the bolt in a worst case, or causing weak ejection in less extreme cases. |
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I am always open to better, so under the circumstances I have to ask. What evidence is there that the Colt spring is a better design than BCM’s, Tubb’s, or for that matter any other high quality supplier’s spring? RSilvers has run all of the data through a $700 engineering program and of all the "high powered" springs he tested, the Colt spring is operating under the least stress in the dynamic environment that it lives in. It provides 200% the force of a standard spring, without too much more stress on it, itself. Colt knew what they were doing. They didn't just make a thicker wire or add another coil. Unknown program. Unknown methodology. No comparative data. Maybe something more like several samples of each brand tested to end of service life or destruction by cycling at normal operating temperature with pressure at installed height tracked during testing. |
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Not to steal the thread, I got the BCM upgrade kit and AM using the o-ring in a 16" bushy. Is there a reason I shouldn't be, it has been %100 reliable since I inserted it. Is it hurting anything? Could it hurt anything other than maybe ripping the bottom of a shell casing? Ride the bolt with the charging handle and use the forward assist to close the bolt. Remove the o-ring and do it again. Keep in mind your weapon will very likely still be 100% reliable without the o-ring. |
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I have no doubt it works. I just prefer to use a CS spring that will probably outlast the extractor and bolt. How perfect using the o-ring may be would be one of those eyes of the beholder things. I have played around with the o-ring and I did not like the way it worked. One of the great things about these weapons is there are a bunch of aftermarket goodies we get to play with and we can set up our weapons how we like. I would recommend the Colt "gold" spring over the CS spring. It is better designed. There is a lot that goes into designing a spring, more than just heat-treat and wire diameter and material, but mechanical properties, as well. +1 |
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I am always open to better, so under the circumstances I have to ask. What evidence is there that the Colt spring is a better design than BCM’s, Tubb’s, or for that matter any other high quality supplier’s spring? RSilvers has run all of the data through a $700 engineering program and of all the "high powered" springs he tested, the Colt spring is operating under the least stress in the dynamic environment that it lives in. It provides 200% the force of a standard spring, without too much more stress on it, itself. Colt knew what they were doing. They didn't just make a thicker wire or add another coil. Unknown program. Unknown methodology. No comparative data. Maybe something more like several samples of each brand tested to end of service life or destruction by cycling at normal operating temperature with pressure at installed height tracked during testing. I remember that thread, in i he listed what he used and a link to it. It was legit software, and he had a chart of the different springs. |
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I am always open to better, so under the circumstances I have to ask. What evidence is there that the Colt spring is a better design than BCM’s, Tubb’s, or for that matter any other high quality supplier’s spring? RSilvers has run all of the data through a $700 engineering program and of all the "high powered" springs he tested, the Colt spring is operating under the least stress in the dynamic environment that it lives in. It provides 200% the force of a standard spring, without too much more stress on it, itself. Colt knew what they were doing. They didn't just make a thicker wire or add another coil. Unknown program. Unknown methodology. No comparative data. Maybe something more like several samples of each brand tested to end of service life or destruction by cycling at normal operating temperature with pressure at installed height tracked during testing. Luckygunner labs tested steel case ammo a few weeks ago. They also tested the gold spring. After 5k rounds, it was still doing great. The original bushmaster springs were done by the first five thousand. Real world result and lab data both correlate. To me, this is meaningful and significant as an indicator. |
| Quaility of the part comes into play here. I trust Bravo Companies Spring and Bumper. So your probably wondering about the "Why" of the O ring? The O ring is for shooters that are going to beat the crap out of their gun and not perform maintenice. The idea is that when the spring gets weak the O ring will still keep tension. My thought is if the spring is in good shape the O ring provides too much tension |
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I am always open to better, so under the circumstances I have to ask. What evidence is there that the Colt spring is a better design than BCM’s, Tubb’s, or for that matter any other high quality supplier’s spring? RSilvers has run all of the data through a $700 engineering program and of all the "high powered" springs he tested, the Colt spring is operating under the least stress in the dynamic environment that it lives in. It provides 200% the force of a standard spring, without too much more stress on it, itself. Colt knew what they were doing. They didn't just make a thicker wire or add another coil. Unknown program. Unknown methodology. No comparative data. Maybe something more like several samples of each brand tested to end of service life or destruction by cycling at normal operating temperature with pressure at installed height tracked during testing. Luckygunner labs tested steel case ammo a few weeks ago. They also tested the gold spring. After 5k rounds, it was still doing great. The original bushmaster springs were done by the first five thousand. Real world result and lab data both correlate. To me, this is meaningful and significant as an indicator. I have gone through the Luckygunners Lab test article. I didn’t see anything to support any conclusions on a comparison between the Colt extractor spring and a quality CS extractor spring. As there were no before or after test analyses of the Colt springs we have no way of knowing if the springs’ performance curves were following a computer model or not. To bad they did not put the Colt springs in at the beginning of the test. |
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I am always open to better, so under the circumstances I have to ask. What evidence is there that the Colt spring is a better design than BCM’s, Tubb’s, or for that matter any other high quality supplier’s spring? RSilvers has run all of the data through a $700 engineering program and of all the "high powered" springs he tested, the Colt spring is operating under the least stress in the dynamic environment that it lives in. It provides 200% the force of a standard spring, without too much more stress on it, itself. Colt knew what they were doing. They didn't just make a thicker wire or add another coil. Unknown program. Unknown methodology. No comparative data. Maybe something more like several samples of each brand tested to end of service life or destruction by cycling at normal operating temperature with pressure at installed height tracked during testing. Luckygunner labs tested steel case ammo a few weeks ago. They also tested the gold spring. After 5k rounds, it was still doing great. The original bushmaster springs were done by the first five thousand. Real world result and lab data both correlate. To me, this is meaningful and significant as an indicator. I have gone through the Luckygunners Lab test article. I didn’t see anything to support any conclusions on a comparison between the Colt extractor spring and a quality CS extractor spring. As there were no before or after test analyses of the Colt springs we have no way of knowing if the springs’ performance curves were following a computer model or not. To bad they did not put the Colt springs in at the beginning of the test. Regardless, replace it every 5K and you won't have an issue, and it will provide plenty of tension, but not too much, through that cycle. |
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I'd only upgrade if I were experiencing extraction problems.
Why? Your extractor can overpower the ejector, and leave you with a spent case stuck to the bolt face. That makes for a fun malfunction. Ask me how I know. I've shot suppressed SBRs without an O-ring, with no problems. |
| I just run the Colt gold spring, now. IT is what is spec'ed by the US military for everything from a 10.3" MK18 to a 20" A4. It provides more positive extraction without causing issue with the ejection, it is durable and not "over-stressed", and it will not harden in cold weather or get chewed up like an O-ring. VIton O-rings are only rated for 0-5*F in dynamic situations, and I am guessing by "dynamic", they meant something even less abusive than what we are using them for. Many people hunt/shoot in this type of weather with their AR's, and this may indeed cause some issue, or it may not, but why? |
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