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Posted: 8/28/2004 4:04:11 PM EDT
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I have recently decided to go ahead and upgrade my extractor now instead of waiting until it has problems to do it. I have read a couple of posts here concerning such an upgrade but I do not remember any of them. So basically, tell me if I am wrong on this. To successfully upgrade the extractor I will need a Wolff extra power extractor spring with a black Colt extractor insert. Anything wrong with that? Are those parts good? Are there better parts? Let me hear your thoughts... |
| Or you can get the heavy duty colt M-4 spring and black insert at www.sawlesales.com |
No dice there. They want a $50 minimum order. I'll pass. 
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| put a small o ring around the extractor spring. I ordered a new Colt bolt and it had on in it. I was surprised. It will stiffen up you extractor more that the spring itself. I went to the hardware store and bought one for 30 cents and you can defiantly feel the difference if you try working the extractor with your finger. |
And you won't have to deal with a man who is one of the biggest anal pores ever to post a note on this site. 
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Hate to rock the boat. I like the EXRing. Throws em in a little pile. |
No need to be negative. I have nothing against them. Just I do not need $50 of stuff at this time. Now back to the topic...... |
Hate to rock your boat, but ... Go here McMaster-Carr and look at the following part numbers: 1201T16 Mil-Spec Viton O-Ring Pack of 50 $4.82 9396K11 Silicone O-Ring Pack of 100 $6.90 6540K116 Double-Seal Viton O-Ring Pack of 50 $10.24 The "Double-Seal Viton O-Ring Part# 6540K116 is the exact same thing as the Ex-Ring. A pkg of 50 @ $10.24 plus $3.75 shipping lets you buy thm for $0.28 each! Give them to your friends! HTH |
They mention that there is an extractor spring made form some magic declassified aerospace metal but dont list it for sale. Why can't I buy an extractor spring made of 'unobtaianium'? |
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Everyone seems to be worried about extractor issues, yet I have never met anyone who really had a problem. I know plenty of people with thousands of hot handloads through their service and match rifles, who never had any issues? If this is an important issue, I'd go (I did) with the upgrade that is included in all the real SPRs in the field. A simple O-ring that cost $1. No, these are not made from Viton or whatever you can buy at the hardware store for $4/1000. |
The cheap ones are made of Buna-N rubber and cost $7.50/100 - part# 90025K123 Here at McMaster-Carr. This is what is most commonly found at hardware stores. If Viton is bad, as you maintain, what are the O-rings you sell made of? |
Sorry we haven't met bigbore, but I have had two 16" carbines with extraction problems. The most common failure is when the case is extracted from the chamber but fails to be ejected from the receiver. (not an ejector problem BTW ) I doubt Colt would install a HD extractor spring in the M4 if this were an unknown experience. Most of the posters on this forum ( and likely your customers also ) don't shoot their AR's very much. This is truly a lair of "Internet commandos and equipment whores". ( I know this is going to create a shit storm, but I just couldn't help myself ) This type of failure is well reported and documented. There have been many posts and discussions on this forum of this issue over the past years. No real consensus as to the root cause of the problem, but replacement with a HD extractor spring corrects the problem. Never seen it on a 20" rifle. I have my opinion as to why this occurs also. I have used the "O" ring solution and it seems to work as an intermin solution. I just don't confidence in the "O" ring in the long term. A permanent solution is just too cheap and easy. I have purchased and tested HD springs by all the sources I can locate. They all seem to work, but some cost more than others. Model 1 Sales offers a heavy duty extractor spring for $1 each and it works as well as any. They also have a black insert for $1 each, although I don't find the insert color to matter at all. For this level of investment, I install the HD spring in all my AR's as a standard precaution. |
You never met anyone who had a problem with cases not ejecting? Surely you've seen any number of posts on the problem right here on this site---and here's one more  My XM177E2 clone started having the problem nearly ten years ago, and drove me crazy for months. I finally stripped off the upper and collapsible stock, and turned it into a standard rifle config. Damn near sold the XM upper b/c I'd given up being able to fix it. Finally, three years ago I found this site, and discovered that what I had always imagined was a problem w/insufficient gas was actually an extractor spring problem. Got a pack of Wolff springs, put the original pieces back on; problem solved. Of course I now had an extra upper, in standard A2 configuration, and had to do something with it----so here came AR number two Am now up to six ARs . I knew I bought a 10 pack of the Wolff springs for a reason  Every time I take the XM177 clone out to the range, I say a thank you to this site. If I hadn't found it, I probably still wouldn't know that what I thought was a gas problem was actually the extractor spring |
Hate to say it, but the color of the insert doesn't mean much. Just identifies which spring is installed. Colt has used a lot of different colors over the years, black is the latest... |
I partially agree with you, but there is at least one exception. The very first insert was white, and some of the very early Viet Nam malfunctions were due to weak extractor grip on the cases. The blue piece that was standard for so many years is in fact stiffer than that first white unit. Colt tells me that the current black is just for IDing the stiffer springs, because GI replacement springs are packed w/the insert. Their dork dealer who doesn't like this web site and it's members insists the black inserts are stiffer than the blue. You can decide who to believe; the factory or their arrogent idiot dealer Now, we've got CDNN selling bolt/carrier assys with a RED insert, which I had never seen nor heard of before. I haven't the faintest idea whether they're stiffer than the blue or not. Putting the one I got into the bolt assy of my XM177 clone did change the angle of ejection from right rear to more straight out, but that might just be because it's newer
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EXACTLY. The inserts are identical, only color-coded to indicate spring tension. BTW, I have a Wolff HD extractor spring in my transferable M16/M4 carbine, and it has the ultra-old RED insert! 
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Yeah that was what I figured. Regardless, I still need to find a place that will sell either the blue or black ones without having to do a $50 minimum order. |
I have no idea what they are made of, but was told it isn't Viton. |
Ga Percision Shooters supply, sells them and has a samll parts shipping fee. A dollar or so. No minimun order. I just bought some AR spare parts from them. WD |
Thanks. I got some of the green followers there once. I'll have to check them out. |
Boat is steady! I wasn't making any commentary on price. I just had good results from the EXRing. I'll be ordering from Mc-Carr next time. Thanks for the heads up. |
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Just order the Wolff HD extractor spring from Brownell's or directly from Wolff. Just use your existing insert regardless of color. It will NOT affect your spring whatsoever. No need to get a new insert unless you do not currently have one. |
If you could do a little research and find out what they are made of, it would be much appreciated. Inquiring minds need to know. TIA |
Any info? Thanks |
I've never seen combat, but I'm also not an internet commando:)
I have only fired about 8000 rounds through 15-20 different ARs in the past 15years, but I have honestly never had an issue where I need extra extractor power. Back in the old days when I used to build ARs from shitty parts kits I did have a number of problems, but not with quality parts....I'm not saying it's B.S. or anything, but I haven't rushed out and got additional parts because it hasn't been an issue at all. Maybe I have been extremely lucky. |
I completely agree. But for about $2, I think safe is better than sorry. Also, I got my Wolff extractor spring and will re-use my RRA extractor. Thanks all! |
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What's the deal with the new gold colored extractor springs referenced here: www.logsa.army.mil/pub/psissuesA/PS_625.pdf That's a December 2004 PM. |
Good Tip I just ordered a bag of 50. I'll pass my extras out to my bud's in PA & MD |
Line it up with the big end of the spring against the recess in the extractor and squish it down against a firm table top or a block of wood untill the spring assemble 'snaps' into the recess. |
I have those and won't use anything else! |
Give me a break guy. Ken Elmore knows more about the AR-15 then you could ever hope too! Your own admission if failing to diagnose a simple worn out extractor spring speaks volumes of your expert "knowledge"! Did Ken personally hurt your feelings (insult you) or are you just on some sort of "Ken insulted a member here so he's a bad guy bandwagon"? Grow some skin for Christ sake! You just gotta love the net sometimes!  |
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It is more of a problem with the short barreled systems with carbine-length gas systems, because of bolt-opening timing issues, and high pressures. I suppose there is no point in recommending the D-Fender, which is the original extraction improvement insert, that has been around longer than all the others, from the inventor of the entire concept, MGI. But, I mentioned it anyway, for folks who might want to spend the $12.95 for it. I use one, it is perfectly reliable, and lasts a very long time, tested to over 50,000 rounds at Crane, twice. Hard to go wrong with it. But, if you want to only spend a dollar, hey, that's alright with me. I'm a little more interested in quality, than cheap. |
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