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Posted: 9/1/2014 12:01:32 PM EDT
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Just picked up a "new" Colt BCG and upon receipt and inspection the bolt appears to be an FN ... I say appears due to the MPF (underlined F) has an engraved M, a stamped P, and a horribly (imo) engraved underlined F. Is this normal for an FN bolt ? I am not opposed to keeping it if in fact it is a true FN bolt and not a forged engraving - even though I was supposed to get an all Colt BCG - however this is my first encounter with an FN bolt so is it real ? The other thing I question regarding the FN bolt is that the ejector is silver and not black like all of the Colt bolts I've seen as well as the pictures of FN bolts I've seen online. Any relevant information is greatly appreciated.
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Interesting...I just looked up Advanced Ordnance because I'd never heard of them specifically before. Their website says: AO Precision supplies many of the most respected of the AR-15 rifle producers. These include Alexander Arms, Bulldog Barrels, Colt, Del-Ton, FN Manufacturing, DSA, Krieger Barrels, Lothar Walther, LaRue Tactical, LWRC, Noveske, O.F. Mossberg, Primary Weapons Systems, Rock River Arms, SIG Sauer, E.R. Shaw Barrels, Smith & Wesson, Wilson Arms and Wilson Combat. So that could be a complete bolt from FN that they assembled with a stripped bolt from AO. I'm assuming that the details of how this bolt was marked are specific to bolts from AO, and that other suppliers' markings for FN bolts are slightly different. It's kind of rough to get a feel for who does what when the industry is so incestuous and secretive about who makes what specific parts. For example, Rock River does not mark their bolts (or more properly does not have them marked by the actual manufacturer), while Colt and FN both do typically have their bolts marked. All three companies could be using otherwise identical bolts, but since some are marked and others aren't, we, the consumers, can't tell that they're really identical. A little transparency might help remove the mystery and misinformation that swirls around how "Company X's ARs are the only really reliable guns out there" along with the other dung that gets flung, since we would KNOW something about what goes into Company X's AND Company Z's ARs... |
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I have heard about some Colt BCG's out there with FN bolts. I was surprised I guess to say the least and then with not knowing FN stuff ... Yes to the goldish color spring - I say ish due to the spring being closer to gold than another color - and yes to the F under the extractor. The silver ejector is normal also ? as well as the stamped P and engraved M F ? These were my big issues. The engraving looks done by hand. Thanks for the responses gentleman I appreciate it. If we knew where all the parts came from we'd all buy the cheaper of the same I'd bet ! which would lead to all kinds of other things ... What makes the difference to me are the specifications for each part.
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| Specs are indeed the differentiator between "good" and "better" parts. But think about the industrial economies behind making all parts to at least the quality of your highest demanding customer versus having to change manufacturing processes for the same part for different customers. I'll bet that the biggest differences between bolts that go to Colt and bolts that go to Rock River has to do with testing procedures, not manufacturing procedures. |
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AO Precision is a main suppler for FN and the quality is top notch. I have never seen a FN bolt with the gold spring but you never know. Its not uncommon to see a Colt carrier with a FN bolt or vice versa as they are both DoD suppliers. That being said both are as mil-spec as it gets. |
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Specs are indeed the differentiator between "good" and "better" parts. But think about the industrial economies behind making all parts to at least the quality of your highest demanding customer versus having to change manufacturing processes for the same part for different customers. I'll bet that the biggest differences between bolts that go to Colt and bolts that go to Rock River has to do with testing procedures, not manufacturing procedures. Or, it could be that the Mil Spec bolts are held to higher tolerances, etc. The rejects go into the RRA pile. Also, when companies sub contract parts out, they do often have proprietary agreements. Perhaps the Colt/FN parts are held to the TDP; The commercial parts are to the specs that were given. |
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Specs are indeed the differentiator between "good" and "better" parts. But think about the industrial economies behind making all parts to at least the quality of your highest demanding customer versus having to change manufacturing processes for the same part for different customers. I'll bet that the biggest differences between bolts that go to Colt and bolts that go to Rock River has to do with testing procedures, not manufacturing procedures. Colt produces their own bolts (and damn near everything else) Photo taken of Colt bolts prior to final machining (taken inside Colt Factory) 
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Here go the Colt guys again. If you look at the history of Colt and FN, FN wins hands down. Colt has suffured over the years with quality control where FN has not. That being said, if I were going to pick between the two, it would be FN for obvious reasons. FN has never been known to put out poor products or poor quality control, Colt can't say the same.
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Interesting...I just looked up Advanced Ordnance because I'd never heard of them specifically before. Their website says: So that could be a complete bolt from FN that they assembled with a stripped bolt from AO. I'm assuming that the details of how this bolt was marked are specific to bolts from AO, and that other suppliers' markings for FN bolts are slightly different. It's kind of rough to get a feel for who does what when the industry is so incestuous and secretive about who makes what specific parts. For example, Rock River does not mark their bolts (or more properly does not have them marked by the actual manufacturer), while Colt and FN both do typically have their bolts marked. All three companies could be using otherwise identical bolts, but since some are marked and others aren't, we, the consumers, can't tell that they're really identical. A little transparency might help remove the mystery and misinformation that swirls around how "Company X's ARs are the only really reliable guns out there" along with the other dung that gets flung, since we would KNOW something about what goes into Company X's AND Company Z's ARs... Quoted:
Interesting...I just looked up Advanced Ordnance because I'd never heard of them specifically before. Their website says: AO Precision supplies many of the most respected of the AR-15 rifle producers. These include Alexander Arms, Bulldog Barrels, Colt, Del-Ton, FN Manufacturing, DSA, Krieger Barrels, Lothar Walther, LaRue Tactical, LWRC, Noveske, O.F. Mossberg, Primary Weapons Systems, Rock River Arms, SIG Sauer, E.R. Shaw Barrels, Smith & Wesson, Wilson Arms and Wilson Combat. So that could be a complete bolt from FN that they assembled with a stripped bolt from AO. I'm assuming that the details of how this bolt was marked are specific to bolts from AO, and that other suppliers' markings for FN bolts are slightly different. It's kind of rough to get a feel for who does what when the industry is so incestuous and secretive about who makes what specific parts. For example, Rock River does not mark their bolts (or more properly does not have them marked by the actual manufacturer), while Colt and FN both do typically have their bolts marked. All three companies could be using otherwise identical bolts, but since some are marked and others aren't, we, the consumers, can't tell that they're really identical. A little transparency might help remove the mystery and misinformation that swirls around how "Company X's ARs are the only really reliable guns out there" along with the other dung that gets flung, since we would KNOW something about what goes into Company X's AND Company Z's ARs... It doesn't specifically say they supply bolts to Colt. There are quite a few parts in the AR platform. |
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Quoted: Interesting...I just looked up Advanced Ordnance because I'd never heard of them specifically before. Their website says: So that could be a complete bolt from FN that they assembled with a stripped bolt from AO. I'm assuming that the details of how this bolt was marked are specific to bolts from AO, and that other suppliers' markings for FN bolts are slightly different. It's kind of rough to get a feel for who does what when the industry is so incestuous and secretive about who makes what specific parts. For example, Rock River does not mark their bolts (or more properly does not have them marked by the actual manufacturer), while Colt and FN both do typically have their bolts marked. All three companies could be using otherwise identical bolts, but since some are marked and others aren't, we, the consumers, can't tell that they're really identical. A little transparency might help remove the mystery and misinformation that swirls around how "Company X's ARs are the only really reliable guns out there" along with the other dung that gets flung, since we would KNOW something about what goes into Company X's AND Company Z's ARs... Quoted: Interesting...I just looked up Advanced Ordnance because I'd never heard of them specifically before. Their website says: AO Precision supplies many of the most respected of the AR-15 rifle producers. These include Alexander Arms, Bulldog Barrels, Colt, Del-Ton, FN Manufacturing, DSA, Krieger Barrels, Lothar Walther, LaRue Tactical, LWRC, Noveske, O.F. Mossberg, Primary Weapons Systems, Rock River Arms, SIG Sauer, E.R. Shaw Barrels, Smith & Wesson, Wilson Arms and Wilson Combat. So that could be a complete bolt from FN that they assembled with a stripped bolt from AO. I'm assuming that the details of how this bolt was marked are specific to bolts from AO, and that other suppliers' markings for FN bolts are slightly different. It's kind of rough to get a feel for who does what when the industry is so incestuous and secretive about who makes what specific parts. For example, Rock River does not mark their bolts (or more properly does not have them marked by the actual manufacturer), while Colt and FN both do typically have their bolts marked. All three companies could be using otherwise identical bolts, but since some are marked and others aren't, we, the consumers, can't tell that they're really identical. A little transparency might help remove the mystery and misinformation that swirls around how "Company X's ARs are the only really reliable guns out there" along with the other dung that gets flung, since we would KNOW something about what goes into Company X's AND Company Z's ARs... Your way reading too much into something that is very simple. You have one of the best so enjoy it. FN does NOT sell rejects to the civilian market and they make it very difficult for civilians to get their military production components. As far as transparency goes, neither Colt or FN will ever give up their trade secrets for obvious reasons, however, being that they both are true mil-spec we know what they have. The biggest difference between true mil-spec and others is the metal used, shot peened, HP tested & MPI inspected. Some off brands skip some of the steps altogether or just do batch testing where as bot FN and Colt test each one individually. |
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Colt and FN are more than capable of producing their own, but sometimes they can't meet the military demand thus the outsourcing. FN civilian bolts are totally different, have the weaker extractor spring and more elaborate markings ( HPI/MP etc.)
My MPE ( F underlined) bolt came in a sealed package with the NSN white label like the pic below F marked extractor, Colt gold ( copper colored) extractor spring. |
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It doesn't specifically say they supply bolts to Colt. There are quite a few parts in the AR platform. Quoted:
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Interesting...I just looked up Advanced Ordnance because I'd never heard of them specifically before. Their website says: AO Precision supplies many of the most respected of the AR-15 rifle producers. These include Alexander Arms, Bulldog Barrels, Colt, Del-Ton, FN Manufacturing, DSA, Krieger Barrels, Lothar Walther, LaRue Tactical, LWRC, Noveske, O.F. Mossberg, Primary Weapons Systems, Rock River Arms, SIG Sauer, E.R. Shaw Barrels, Smith & Wesson, Wilson Arms and Wilson Combat. So that could be a complete bolt from FN that they assembled with a stripped bolt from AO. I'm assuming that the details of how this bolt was marked are specific to bolts from AO, and that other suppliers' markings for FN bolts are slightly different. It's kind of rough to get a feel for who does what when the industry is so incestuous and secretive about who makes what specific parts. For example, Rock River does not mark their bolts (or more properly does not have them marked by the actual manufacturer), while Colt and FN both do typically have their bolts marked. All three companies could be using otherwise identical bolts, but since some are marked and others aren't, we, the consumers, can't tell that they're really identical. A little transparency might help remove the mystery and misinformation that swirls around how "Company X's ARs are the only really reliable guns out there" along with the other dung that gets flung, since we would KNOW something about what goes into Company X's AND Company Z's ARs... It doesn't specifically say they supply bolts to Colt. There are quite a few parts in the AR platform. Well I know that Colt manufactures the following in house... Bolts Carriers Barrels Machines out their upper receivers Machines out their lower receivers Pretty sure they also machine out their FCG's also. |
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Well I know that Colt manufactures the following in house... Bolts Carriers Barrels Machines out their upper receivers Machines out their lower receivers Pretty sure they also machine out their FCG's also. Quoted:
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Interesting...I just looked up Advanced Ordnance because I'd never heard of them specifically before. Their website says: AO Precision supplies many of the most respected of the AR-15 rifle producers. These include Alexander Arms, Bulldog Barrels, Colt, Del-Ton, FN Manufacturing, DSA, Krieger Barrels, Lothar Walther, LaRue Tactical, LWRC, Noveske, O.F. Mossberg, Primary Weapons Systems, Rock River Arms, SIG Sauer, E.R. Shaw Barrels, Smith & Wesson, Wilson Arms and Wilson Combat. So that could be a complete bolt from FN that they assembled with a stripped bolt from AO. I'm assuming that the details of how this bolt was marked are specific to bolts from AO, and that other suppliers' markings for FN bolts are slightly different. It's kind of rough to get a feel for who does what when the industry is so incestuous and secretive about who makes what specific parts. For example, Rock River does not mark their bolts (or more properly does not have them marked by the actual manufacturer), while Colt and FN both do typically have their bolts marked. All three companies could be using otherwise identical bolts, but since some are marked and others aren't, we, the consumers, can't tell that they're really identical. A little transparency might help remove the mystery and misinformation that swirls around how "Company X's ARs are the only really reliable guns out there" along with the other dung that gets flung, since we would KNOW something about what goes into Company X's AND Company Z's ARs... It doesn't specifically say they supply bolts to Colt. There are quite a few parts in the AR platform. Well I know that Colt manufactures the following in house... Bolts Carriers Barrels Machines out their upper receivers Machines out their lower receivers Pretty sure they also machine out their FCG's also. This has no bearing on whether or not colt ships out with FN parts. It's widely known firearms manufactures will source out parts from other manufacturers to meet their own customer demand. |
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Quoted:
It doesn't specifically say they supply bolts to Colt. There are quite a few parts in the AR platform. Quoted:
Quoted:
Interesting...I just looked up Advanced Ordnance because I'd never heard of them specifically before. Their website says: AO Precision supplies many of the most respected of the AR-15 rifle producers. These include Alexander Arms, Bulldog Barrels, Colt, Del-Ton, FN Manufacturing, DSA, Krieger Barrels, Lothar Walther, LaRue Tactical, LWRC, Noveske, O.F. Mossberg, Primary Weapons Systems, Rock River Arms, SIG Sauer, E.R. Shaw Barrels, Smith & Wesson, Wilson Arms and Wilson Combat. So that could be a complete bolt from FN that they assembled with a stripped bolt from AO. I'm assuming that the details of how this bolt was marked are specific to bolts from AO, and that other suppliers' markings for FN bolts are slightly different. It's kind of rough to get a feel for who does what when the industry is so incestuous and secretive about who makes what specific parts. For example, Rock River does not mark their bolts (or more properly does not have them marked by the actual manufacturer), while Colt and FN both do typically have their bolts marked. All three companies could be using otherwise identical bolts, but since some are marked and others aren't, we, the consumers, can't tell that they're really identical. A little transparency might help remove the mystery and misinformation that swirls around how "Company X's ARs are the only really reliable guns out there" along with the other dung that gets flung, since we would KNOW something about what goes into Company X's AND Company Z's ARs... It doesn't specifically say they supply bolts to Colt. There are quite a few parts in the AR platform. |
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Well I know that Colt manufactures the following in house... Bolts Carriers Barrels Machines out their upper receivers Machines out their lower receivers Pretty sure they also machine out their FCG's also. |
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