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Posted: 2/12/2006 12:43:56 PM EDT
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I just got my first AR and I taken it out once. I am having issues with FTF when I am atempting to charge it dosen't matter if I just insterted a new Magazine or if I try to manually cycle some rounds through it with the charging handle. I have searched around and haven't found a thread on this so I am posting this one. The rifle has a Stag Lower with 6 postition stock. Has a WOA Upper and Reciever group. A 16in Hbar Fluted Bushy barrel with reciever and barrel both having rifle ramps. I am using all new D&H mags black teflon. I am using Remington Express Rifle .223 ammo. I don't recall having any FTF when I shot the rifle last but when I try and charge it after inserting a magazine it will not feed the round instead it pushes the round almost strait forward instead of up the feed ramp and generally it hits below the feed ramps and hangs or barely starts its way up the feed ramp. I can normally hit the Forward assit a time or two and it loads. I have torn it down cleaned it everything looks ok. I need help from the experts. I have included some images below. Also If I cycle the charging handle to eject a shell the next round will pop up as the charging handle goes reward and as soon as it goes forward it drops down flat again then hits reciever below the ramp. I attached images of that also incase it matters.. Thanks Here are the feed ramp failure pictures. http://www.blakeh.com/images/ramp1.jpg http://www.blakeh.com/images/ramp2.jpg http://www.blakeh.com/images/ramp3.jpg Here are the pictures of teh Rounds popping up after a round is ejected before the carrier group goes forward to charge the rifle. http://www.blakeh.com/images/normal_ramp-eject-side.jpg http://www.blakeh.com/images/ramp-eject.jpg |
When charging the rifle, you are pulling all the way back on the charging handle, then letting it go (read not walking the charging handle back forward)? If yes, then lock the bolt back on the bolt catch, insert a mag, and while keeping the muzzle pointed down range, hit the bolt release and see if this solves the feed problem. The bullet tips are making the correct contact on the feed ramps, so it boils down to one of these problems. 1. The mag is still rough (inner side walls, under feed lip contact area, and front ramp area). 2. The Recoil spring is on the weak side, and does not have the needed tension to strip and feed the first round on charge. 3. The hammer is catching on the firing pin collar on the forward stroke, and in fact this is what is stopping the bolt. To rule out this one, with the mag out of the rifle, pull back on the charging handle, and then walk the charging handle back forward. The B/C should not hang up on the way forward. If it does, slowly charge again to do the same test, but this time hold the trigger back (pulled). Note: Holding the trigger pulled keeps the hammer retained on the disconnector (held lower in the receiver) and the hammer shouldn't bind on the firing pin collar. P.S. In regards to the ten rounder feed angle, it's not correct. |
Dano Thanks for the response. 1. I am not riding it I pull it back and let it drop on its own. Sometimes it feeds sometimes it dosen't more than not it dosen't. 2. Generally it will work properly if I have it the bolt back locked back and use the bolt release. Unfortunatly thats dosen't seem to always work either. 3. I checked to see it was hitting the firing pin collar. It does apear when I have the trigger pulled in and try and charge it that the binding issues about 1-1.5 inches back from the front is removed. Its like a notched felling as you pull it. I looked at teh bottom of the firing pin collar and you can see a mark on it where the hammer apears to be riding on it. I added some photos on and looked through the current threads found one about hammer rubbing to hard on carrier. Shows modifing the hammer. I included a side profile picture of the hammer also so you can see if it need to be cut. 4 as to your statement "P.S. In regards to the ten rounder feed angle, it's not correct." I don't understand can you explain that to me? If it has to do with the Mags they are 30 rounders otherwise I am lost. Thanks again. Edit to add images.. Looks like it is rubbing for sure. http://www.blakeh.com/images/hammer.jpg http://www.blakeh.com/images/Clipboard01.jpg http://www.blakeh.com/images/hammer2.jpg http://www.blakeh.com/images/carrier.jpg |
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Since this is mag problem (if the 10 rounder feeds fine), there is always the option of replacing the mag with a working unit, but not knowing how available mags are in your part of the world, it may be easier to just correct the one on hand. If you take a look at this photo you posted, you will see the receiver mar’g just below the feed ramp in the upper receiver it’s self. This mar’g is being caused by the bullet low feeds out of the mag (bullet tip striking the upper receive and not the feed ramps).  Breaking in, cleaning up the mag. First were going to start with setting the spring, and mate the follower to the body. To do this, you take a ruler and push the mag follower all the way down, then let the mag snap back up on it own. Do this about 20 times. Since you have stated that you have already pulled the mag apart to clean it, stripping it down one more time should be a snap. With just the mag body in your hand, run your fingernail down the under side of the feed lips to feel for burs. Check the very front of the mag where the tip of the bullet tracks up the inner side front of the body. Check the upper guide section of the mag for burs (it’s the section just behind the shoulder of the round of the photo that I posted, and the one with the bottom edge bur sticking out and waving at me). The short version is if any areas that I listed above have stamping burs, they should be removed (stoned) so that the contact edges of the mag to the round should guide the round, and not scrap the hell out of it. Once you have the body corrected, look at the mag follower. If you find the bottom of the skirt is littered with casting edges, us a razor knife and address the edges. Follow this up by cleaning all the parts and reassembling the magazine. Now before re-installing the mag into the rifle, check the mag release button to confirm that the thread section of the mag release (inner part) is flush with the button it’s self. If needed, you press all the way in on the button (use the back end of a pencil), and reach over to the other side to give the catch another spin if needed. If you find that the catch only needs to be spun ½” turn to flush the threaded section, them you will need to spin the catch all the way out, remove the button and re-orient/spin it 180*, then screw the catch back in to flush the tip of the threads out with the button. |
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Now back to your other questions. I need you to take one more photo of the fire control group, but straight down with the hammer un-cocked. The area I’d like to see the disconnector behind the hook to check for hammer binding on charging (will be a dent or bright line from the tail of the hammer making contact to the back of the trigger/disco). In regards to your hammer catching on the firing pin collar, you have a shrouded carrier (Firing pin is shielded), and you will not have the collar catch problem. Regarding the hammer mod you saw, your hammer does not need it (due to the shrouded carrier), but the tail of the hammer may be a bit too long, and causing some binding that will slow the forward stroke of the carrier on charge (again the reason for the picture to confirm). Now regarding the feed angle of mags, when the top round is pushed forward in the mag (bolt against the back of the rim), the round should move straight forward (pinned between the feed lips and the lower round/follower). The tip of the bullet makes contact on the feed lips, and then the barrel feed lips guides the bullet/round into the chamber (rim section slightly dips down below the feed lips until the rounds rim clears them). Once the front section of the round is well into the chamber, then the rim of the round clears the mag lips and the bolt drives home (controlled feeding). In regards to the 10 rounder mag photo you posted, the round is jumping out of the feed lips before the rim clears the lips and is not being retained in the mag during the strip for a controlled feed. This may be due to you only charging by hand, but down the road, with the feed lips not fully retaining the round until it clears, it will lead to a double live feed (rounds being sprayed out on buffer/ back of receiver impact during self-charging). |
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Dano I don't know where you are getting the 10 round stuff at .. I have Ten New D&H 30 round Mags that is it. No 10 round mags, does that change anything? Am I missing something here? Not sure where the 10 round stuff is coming from. Thanks for the help I will snap another photo this evening of the Fire control group. Also is it common to need to take new mags and clean them up before use? |
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Sorry, got the ten rounder from "teh Rounds" you wrote in below one of the photo's. There is no difference if the mags are 10 rounder, 20 rounder or 30 rounder. All should feed and retain the rounds the same way. Is it normal to need to break in the mags/followers and need to clean the feed lips on new USGI issued mags? No, normally a couple of full loadings/uses will solve any problem instead of cleaning them up by hand. But having said that, I have seen New USGI "Type" mags that would have never passed the final acceptance lot test by the government inspectors in regards to stamping burs and finish. |
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Well I cleaned my rifle and did a light lube of clp took out 5 mags last night. Numbered each one and loaded them with diffrent amounts of rounds and fired through each 5 times. I used the bolt realease the first 3 times thru each mag. No problems. I tryed charging manually each a couple times with no issues after that. Looks like everything seems to be ok. Just me being a noobie may have caused issues with my unfamiliarity of the rifle. I shot the following for testing 1st group 4 rounds each Controled Fire 2nd group 5 rounds each Controled Fire 3rd group 4 rounds each Rapid Fire 4th group 5 rounds each Rapid Fire 5th group 6 rounds each Controled Fire Next time I got out I will test my other 5 mags. I appriaciate your help and education about this problem Dano. |
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