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Posted: 4/19/2009 4:35:15 PM EDT
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I have to say in both my Bushmasters ,Federal XM193 5.56 brown box is the most consistent accurate Ammo I have come across.I have seen trash talk about it here blown primers etc,but my BUSHY'S LOVE IT. I am talking 100 yrd groups red dot no magnification I LOVE THE STUFF.Thought I throw this out there.
Keith 555 |
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I have to say in both my Bushmasters ,Federal XM193 5.56 brown box is the most consistent accurate Ammo I have come across.I have seen trash talk about it here blown primers etc,but my BUSHY'S LOVE IT. I am talking 100 yrd groups red dot no magnification I LOVE THE STUFF.Thought I throw this out there. Keith 555 What other ammunition have you compared it to? |
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I have to say in both my Bushmasters ,Federal XM193 5.56 brown box is the most consistent accurate Ammo I have come across.I have seen trash talk about it here blown primers etc,but my BUSHY'S LOVE IT. I am talking 100 yrd groups red dot no magnification I LOVE THE STUFF.Thought I throw this out there. Keith 555 What other ammunition have you compared it with? I would assume other mass-produced 55gr FMJ. This may rub some people the wrong way and get BS called on me, but it was either WWB/Q3131, or PMC 55gr FMJ, but I shot a 7/10 shot .5 MOA group at 415 yards when I was younger and not so worried about XM this and TAP that. Weapon: Ruger VT .223 Optic:Leupold 6.5-20X VXII Setup:Bipod/sand-bag 7 out of 10 shots went into a circular area of even dispersion that I could ALMOST cover with a 50-cent piece. Three shots...2 landed 1 foot+ from the group, and the 3rd one is a mystery. Horrid consistancy I guess, because I doubt I jerked 3 shots when the rest of the group looked so nice, and the 3 "fliers" went into 3 different zip-codes opposite each-other. I was about 15-17 at the time and had no idea that 5.56 ammo was not meant for my .223 Ruger. I shot Q3131 with impunity, averaging near MOA 200 yards. I could CONSISTANTLY hit the little white ammo-boxes at that distance, and even when I knocked one down and it was laying side-ways on the rail, offering me a .75"x4" target, it only took a couple of tries to hit it. I never had a blown anything, but then Ruger is known for excessive "free-bore". I really liked the stuff. Although my Dad would constantly remind me that every time I pulled that trigger it cost him $0.20 and that that stuff was expensive and I needed to treasure each shot. Ammo was expensive back then, you see. It had just gone up to 200/1K. XM193(Black Box) out of my Dad's CAR A3 Elite with a 10X Leupold on it averaged around 2 MOA out to 200 yards when I tested it a few months ago. 200y was as far as that range went. |
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I have to say in both my Bushmasters ,Federal XM193 5.56 brown box is the most consistent accurate Ammo I have come across.I have seen trash talk about it here blown primers etc,but my BUSHY'S LOVE IT. I am talking 100 yrd groups red dot no magnification I LOVE THE STUFF.Thought I throw this out there. Keith 555 What other ammunition have you compared it with? I would assume other mass-produced 55gr FMJ. This may rub some people the wrong way and get BS called on me, but it was either WWB/Q3131, or PMC 55gr FMJ, but I shot a 7/10 shot .5 MOA group at 415 yards when I was younger and not so worried about XM this and TAP that. Weapon: Ruger VT .223 Optic:Leupold 6.5-20X VXII Setup:Bipod/sand-bag 7 out of 10 shots went into a circular area of even dispersion that I could ALMOST cover with a 50-cent piece. Three shots...2 landed 1 foot+ from the group, and the 3rd one is a mystery. Horrid consistancy I guess, because I doubt I jerked 3 shots when the rest of the group looked so nice, and the 3 "fliers" went into 3 different zip-codes opposite each-other. I was about 15-17 at the time and had no idea that 5.56 ammo was not meant for my .223 Ruger. I shot Q3131 with impunity, averaging near MOA 200 yards. I could CONSISTANTLY hit the little white ammo-boxes at that distance, and even when I knocked one down and it was laying side-ways on the rail, offering me a .75"x4" target, it only took a couple of tries to hit it. I never had a blown anything, but then Ruger is known for excessive "free-bore". I really liked the stuff. Although my Dad would constantly remind me that every time I pulled that trigger it cost him $0.20 and that that stuff was expensive and I needed to treasure each shot. Ammo was expensive back then, you see. It had just gone up to 200/1K. XM193(Black Box) out of my Dad's CAR A3 Elite with a 10X Leupold on it averaged around 2 MOA out to 200 yards when I tested it a few months ago. 200y was as far as that range went. Another example of why ammunition acceptance testing conducted at Lake City is done with 10-shot groups. |
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I have to say in both my Bushmasters ,Federal XM193 5.56 brown box is the most consistent accurate Ammo I have come across.I have seen trash talk about it here blown primers etc,but my BUSHY'S LOVE IT. I am talking 100 yrd groups red dot no magnification I LOVE THE STUFF.Thought I throw this out there. Keith 555 What other ammunition have you compared it with? I would assume other mass-produced 55gr FMJ. This may rub some people the wrong way and get BS called on me, but it was either WWB/Q3131, or PMC 55gr FMJ, but I shot a 7/10 shot .5 MOA group at 415 yards when I was younger and not so worried about XM this and TAP that. Weapon: Ruger VT .223 Optic:Leupold 6.5-20X VXII Setup:Bipod/sand-bag 7 out of 10 shots went into a circular area of even dispersion that I could ALMOST cover with a 50-cent piece. Three shots...2 landed 1 foot+ from the group, and the 3rd one is a mystery. Horrid consistancy I guess, because I doubt I jerked 3 shots when the rest of the group looked so nice, and the 3 "fliers" went into 3 different zip-codes opposite each-other. I was about 15-17 at the time and had no idea that 5.56 ammo was not meant for my .223 Ruger. I shot Q3131 with impunity, averaging near MOA 200 yards. I could CONSISTANTLY hit the little white ammo-boxes at that distance, and even when I knocked one down and it was laying side-ways on the rail, offering me a .75"x4" target, it only took a couple of tries to hit it. I never had a blown anything, but then Ruger is known for excessive "free-bore". I really liked the stuff. Although my Dad would constantly remind me that every time I pulled that trigger it cost him $0.20 and that that stuff was expensive and I needed to treasure each shot. Ammo was expensive back then, you see. It had just gone up to 200/1K. XM193(Black Box) out of my Dad's CAR A3 Elite with a 10X Leupold on it averaged around 2 MOA out to 200 yards when I tested it a few months ago. 200y was as far as that range went. back in the day i was scouting for general custer. 3 out 5 times i could drop a buffalo at 1000yds with my brand new lever action daisy bb gun. this was using daisy brand bb's, not that fancy crossman this or rws that. my dads daisy could only do it at 700yds, and the buffalo would make it 20-30 yds before dropping. i know you guys won't believe me but i swear it happend. just ask general custer. |
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Can't find any for less than $0.50 a round anymore...   $0.50 yeah... That was the best price I could find today @ the gun show. The dealer was pretty cool, I've bought ammo from him before. But before that, I got into it with a different price-gouger asshole who was a real fucking numbnuts. He basically pulled a bait-and-switch then got all bent outta shape when I called him on it. He had advertised M855 200 rds for $150, and I was going to get it when the main guy in the booth walked up grabbed the sign and snapped at me that the sign was supposed to be for some other Serbian shit, and he wanted $300 for the green-tips in an ammo can. I said I'd take the Serbian if he threw in the ammo can (he had a lot of them). I figured it was worth a shot, but then he just started yelling at me and berating me in front of everyone. I told him to suck my dick, and he didn't receive it well. We exchanged some more hostilities and I walked away. So did 2 other customers that saw the whole thing. Oh well fuck him, I came back later with the Federal M193 in 200 rd bags with $100 price tags that I bought from the cool dealer. I held them up so he could see then I laughed in his face. If looks could kill.... hehehe.... what a stupid fucking douchebag !!! ETA: WTF is with all the panic-selling, price-gouging, dick-breath sheisters out there these days anyway??? I get the "demand-is-up and supply-is-down so it's going to cost more now" thing, but really... at least be reasonable (and nice) about it. He could have worked with me, but he chose to be a shitstain about it and lost a couple of sales to his competition. |
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Another example of why ammunition acceptance testing conducted at Lake City is done with 10-shot groups. Perish the thought! I just throw away the results I don't like as "flyers" and then report on the smallest group size on the internet. You too may suffer from I.I.C.S. (Inner Internet Commando Syndrome) if you exhibit the following signs and symptoms: A. You know in your brain that firing 3-shot groups is of little value in evaluating the accuracy of a particular rifle and ammunition, but... B. You feel compelled to fire a 3-shot group anyways, and... C. You post your 3-shot group on an Internet Forum. |
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I have to say in both my Bushmasters ,Federal XM193 5.56 brown box is the most consistent accurate Ammo I have come across.I have seen trash talk about it here blown primers etc,but my BUSHY'S LOVE IT. I am talking 100 yrd groups red dot no magnification I LOVE THE STUFF.Thought I throw this out there. Keith 555 What other ammunition have you compared it with? I would assume other mass-produced 55gr FMJ. This may rub some people the wrong way and get BS called on me, but it was either WWB/Q3131, or PMC 55gr FMJ, but I shot a 7/10 shot .5 MOA group at 415 yards when I was younger and not so worried about XM this and TAP that. Weapon: Ruger VT .223 Optic:Leupold 6.5-20X VXII Setup:Bipod/sand-bag 7 out of 10 shots went into a circular area of even dispersion that I could ALMOST cover with a 50-cent piece. Three shots...2 landed 1 foot+ from the group, and the 3rd one is a mystery. Horrid consistancy I guess, because I doubt I jerked 3 shots when the rest of the group looked so nice, and the 3 "fliers" went into 3 different zip-codes opposite each-other. I was about 15-17 at the time and had no idea that 5.56 ammo was not meant for my .223 Ruger. I shot Q3131 with impunity, averaging near MOA 200 yards. I could CONSISTANTLY hit the little white ammo-boxes at that distance, and even when I knocked one down and it was laying side-ways on the rail, offering me a .75"x4" target, it only took a couple of tries to hit it. I never had a blown anything, but then Ruger is known for excessive "free-bore". I really liked the stuff. Although my Dad would constantly remind me that every time I pulled that trigger it cost him $0.20 and that that stuff was expensive and I needed to treasure each shot. Ammo was expensive back then, you see. It had just gone up to 200/1K. XM193(Black Box) out of my Dad's CAR A3 Elite with a 10X Leupold on it averaged around 2 MOA out to 200 yards when I tested it a few months ago. 200y was as far as that range went. Another example of why ammunition acceptance testing conducted at Lake City is done with 10-shot groups. Yep, I have no CLUE what was wrong with those 30%. They sure went wild though. |
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Can't find any for less than $0.50 a round anymore... I don't see why people keep saying this. There are plenty of deals out there if you are willing to hunt for them. Last month I picked up 2,000 rounds of XM193 for $0.36 a round online. Hell sportsman's guide is selling it for $0.41 a round right now. |
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I have to say in both my Bushmasters ,Federal XM193 5.56 brown box is the most consistent accurate Ammo I have come across.I have seen trash talk about it here blown primers etc,but my BUSHY'S LOVE IT. I am talking 100 yrd groups red dot no magnification I LOVE THE STUFF.Thought I throw this out there. Keith 555 +1 +1 +1 for Federal XM193 ALL of my past and present ARs love this stuff. In my view, it is the best 5.56mm/M193 ammo available on the marketplace. I have had ZERO problems with this ammo with thousands of rounds fired, including the recent bad-boy black box tactical stuff. |
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I have to say in both my Bushmasters ,Federal XM193 5.56 brown box is the most consistent accurate Ammo I have come across.I have seen trash talk about it here blown primers etc,but my BUSHY'S LOVE IT. I am talking 100 yrd groups red dot no magnification I LOVE THE STUFF.Thought I throw this out there. Keith 555 What other ammunition have you compared it with? I would assume other mass-produced 55gr FMJ. This may rub some people the wrong way and get BS called on me, but it was either WWB/Q3131, or PMC 55gr FMJ, but I shot a 7/10 shot .5 MOA group at 415 yards when I was younger and not so worried about XM this and TAP that. Weapon: Ruger VT .223 Optic:Leupold 6.5-20X VXII Setup:Bipod/sand-bag 7 out of 10 shots went into a circular area of even dispersion that I could ALMOST cover with a 50-cent piece. Three shots...2 landed 1 foot+ from the group, and the 3rd one is a mystery. Horrid consistancy I guess, because I doubt I jerked 3 shots when the rest of the group looked so nice, and the 3 "fliers" went into 3 different zip-codes opposite each-other. I was about 15-17 at the time and had no idea that 5.56 ammo was not meant for my .223 Ruger. I shot Q3131 with impunity, averaging near MOA 200 yards. I could CONSISTANTLY hit the little white ammo-boxes at that distance, and even when I knocked one down and it was laying side-ways on the rail, offering me a .75"x4" target, it only took a couple of tries to hit it. I never had a blown anything, but then Ruger is known for excessive "free-bore". I really liked the stuff. Although my Dad would constantly remind me that every time I pulled that trigger it cost him $0.20 and that that stuff was expensive and I needed to treasure each shot. Ammo was expensive back then, you see. It had just gone up to 200/1K. XM193(Black Box) out of my Dad's CAR A3 Elite with a 10X Leupold on it averaged around 2 MOA out to 200 yards when I tested it a few months ago. 200y was as far as that range went. Another example of why ammunition acceptance testing conducted at Lake City is done with 10-shot groups. Yep, I have no CLUE what was wrong with those 30%. They sure went wild though. Nothing really went "wrong" with the three outlyer shots, they just demonstrate the true accuracy level of that ammunition. It's not uncommon for one 10-shot group out of several 10-shot groups to display a cluster of several rounds. When the full 10-shot group is measured, then you have the true accuracy level of your ammunition. Take a look at the 10-shot group pictured below. It was fired from an AR-15 at a distance of 100 yards. 8 of the 10 shots went into 1/4 MOA. There isn't an AR-15 on this planet that is capable of true 1/4 MOA accuracy. The other two shots more than doubled the group size and the 10-shot group fired before and after that group averaged with that group give a much better picture of the true accuracy of that AR-15 and ammunition. 
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I have to say in both my Bushmasters ,Federal XM193 5.56 brown box is the most consistent accurate Ammo I have come across.I have seen trash talk about it here blown primers etc,but my BUSHY'S LOVE IT. I am talking 100 yrd groups red dot no magnification I LOVE THE STUFF.Thought I throw this out there. Keith 555 What other ammunition have you compared it to? I am comparing it too Prvi believe it or not,Remington umc,PMC,Armscor |
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At 55 grains how does this stuff do in a 1/7 barrel? Quality 55 grain bullets can shoot superbly from fast twist barrels as the 10-shot group pictured below shows. Not too many knowledgeable persons refer to 55 grain full metal jacket bullets as quality bullets. Heres' a quote from Black Magic on the subject: “For accuracy usage, the 55 grain FMJ bullet is an evil bullet . . . Under sufficient magnification, it wouldn’t surprise me a bit to find a small ‘666’ tattooed into its shiny little ogival head. Abandon all hope, ye who seek tiny groups here!” Fired from a Krieger barreled AR-15 with a 1:7.7" twist 
Here's a comparison showing 30-round composite groups of M193 ammunition compared to handloaded 55 grain FMJ loads and match grade handloads using Sierra 52 grain MatchKings. 
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Can't find any for less than $0.50 a round anymore... I beg to differ, I just ordered half a case for $197, after discount and coupon. Gotta love the lake city stuff. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?p=WX2&i=84531 SOLD OUT 4/22/09 3:20 EST |
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If it says Federal and Lake City and M193 (or any variation of that) and I have the money, I buy it. And, really, nothing else. All the stuff like that I've bought shoots out of my 16 in Bushy HBAR well.
I'm not overly concerned with accuracy. It's unlikely I'll be shooting at anyone more than 200 yrds away. If you believe that your ammo has to fragment to be effective––like it says in the sticky above––you have to have something hot to have acceptable range. PMC isn't hot. It's slow. Fiochi isn't hot. It's slow. I've chrono'd both. I know nothing about how well most other rounds do and do not want to experiment. Even if it has good velocity and accuracy, I have no real way of knowing if the bullet will fragment. I've read, for instance, that Sellier and Beloit doesn't fragment well. The only other stuff I see around I'm interested in is CCI Speer. I haven't tested it. I'll look into it when they quit selling LC, maybe. |
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If it says Federal and Lake City and M193 (or any variation of that) and I have the money, I buy it. And, really, nothing else. All the stuff like that I've bought shoots out of my 16 in Bushy HBAR well. +1 brutha, my thoughts exactly. All my (former) 1/9 bushies and all of my current 1/7 Colts and 1/8 RRAs love this Federal XM193 stuff. |
I am with both of you, If I cannot get Federal XM193 I will not shoot,shooting other ammo not all ,but alot makes me wonder if something is wrong with my rifles. Inconsistent grouping,I throw in XM193 AND I AM SMOKING WHERE I AIM.I have total faith in this ammo, it is all I will use .I have not tried Blackhills or Winchester Q. No need really that is how much my Bushy's love this stuff.
Keith 555 |
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Can't find any for less than $0.50 a round anymore... I just picked up 500 rounds of it at my local shop for 9.58 a box. Funny thing is sitting right next to it was a couple $13 boxes of Remington UMC. True, 48 cents a round is less then 50 cents a round. 
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| I predict that before long we will be wishing we could get it for 50 cents a a round. I called Cheaper Than Dirt to get a quote on some Brown Box, and it was nearly a buck a round. Other places are selling regular LC for 75 cents/round. I know one place where you can still get it loose in 1000 round cases for 45 cents a round, before taxes. I just grabbed quite a bit of it. If I come into some more dough, I'll get some more. |
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7 out of 10 shots went into a circular area of even dispersion that I could ALMOST cover with a 50-cent piece. Three shots...2 landed 1 foot+ from the group, and the 3rd one is a mystery. Horrid consistancy I guess, because I doubt I jerked 3 shots when the rest of the group looked so nice, and the 3 "fliers" went into 3 different zip-codes opposite each-other.
Using XM193 I had a 3-shot group at 25 yards the other day that I could cover with a dime. I was shooting an SBR offhand and relatively fast. Unfortunately, it was a fluke. Flukes aside, +1 on XM193. I like the way they always go "BANG," fully cycle every time, hit right where I am aiming, and look like a freaking flame thrower from an SBR. |
| I know XM193 has it's detractors however from my experience and reading I think it's "one" of the best to stockpile for SHTF and/or CQB stuff. It's accurate enough and dependable enough and more importantly still cheap enough to be able to stockpile and continue to shoot. I think we've seen enough data to show that XM193 fragments well enough at the closer ranges to be able to depend on this ammo. For terminal ballistics however I'm stocking up on Privi 69 and 75 gr OTM ammo. |
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