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Posted: 1/17/2010 5:56:54 AM EDT
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What is the diff between XM193 and XM193F ?
As of right now Natches has it for $7.69 a box. http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FAXM193F&src=tpSlrHm |
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Nothing. All XM193 is the same regardless of the letter after it. It just designates the packaging. Buy it up. I don't buy that. Then don't buy it. While you are deciding, know that these are all XM193 variants too. The only difference is the packaging. XM193A XM193AF XM193CBP XM193BK XM193C It's also available cheaper at some other sources. Check out the tacked ammo deals thread. |
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Nothing. All XM193 is the same regardless of the letter after it. It just designates the packaging. Buy it up. I don't buy that. You dont buy that it is the same, just packaged differently?? maybe...THIS XM193A -Almost works XM193AF -Always Fails XM193CBP-Could Be Pretzels XM193BK -Big Kaboom XM193C -Could work They are all just floor sweepings right? 
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I think I saw that on CNN. That makes it real.....right? 
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Could Be Pretzels 
I wonder if that Pretzel incident was real or staged. 
Now I'm curious. WTH happened? The pretzel incident happened a few years ago...3-4 if Im not mistaken. A guy bought an ammo can of the loose pack XM193....back when that was considered the XM193 PD and before all the other designations came out for XM193. HE was inspecting some of the rounds and found one was not seeted properly....he took the round apart and found a piece of a pretzel stick inside the case, along with some powder. Now, no one knows if this was staged or real....but it did appear pretty real, and if it wasn't, he did a very good job! |
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I think I saw that on CNN. That makes it real.....right?
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Could Be Pretzels
I wonder if that Pretzel incident was real or staged.
Now I'm curious. WTH happened? The pretzel incident happened a few years ago...3-4 if Im not mistaken. A guy bought an ammo can of the loose pack XM193....back when that was considered the XM193 PD and before all the other designations came out for XM193. HE was inspecting some of the rounds and found one was not seeted properly....he took the round apart and found a piece of a pretzel stick inside the case, along with some powder. Now, no one knows if this was staged or real....but it did appear pretty real, and if it wasn't, he did a very good job! Haha, I found it in the archives: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=16&t=218579&page=2 That's pretty funny.  Dilbert_556 actually ran a test to see if it was possible. I wish I could see the pics.
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Nothing. All XM193 is the same regardless of the letter after it. It just designates the packaging. Buy it up. I don't buy that. You dont buy that it is the same, just packaged differently?? maybe...THIS XM193A -Almost works XM193AF -Always Fails XM193CBP-Could Be Pretzels XM193BK -Big Kaboom XM193C -Could work They are all just floor sweepings right?
I ROLFED then sharted! |
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Is XM193 ok to shoot or is there problems with it? It's good stuff. Don't worry about it. That's RIGHT! Don't listen to the knowledgeable shooters! (who have been here longer than 4 months to see the problems with this ammo. 
You probably won't blow your gun up with the shit.... but I'd HARDLY lump it in the "good stuff" category. |
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Is XM193 ok to shoot or is there problems with it? It's good stuff. Don't worry about it. That's RIGHT! Don't listen to the knowledgeable shooters! (who have been here longer than 4 months to see the problems with this ammo.
You probably won't blow your gun up with the shit.... but I'd HARDLY lump it in the "good stuff" category. 
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That's RIGHT! Don't listen to the knowledgeable shooters! (who have been here longer than 4 months to see the problems with this ammo.
I know that the following questions are totally stupid (based on my join date and post count) but what are the magic numbers, regarding join dates and post counts, that indicate how intelligent or experienced one is? Does all credible experience begin only after belonging/posting heavily to arfcom for many years? Do early join dates and high post counts allow one to gain automatic admittance to Mensa and/or Illuminati? Thanks for any enlightenment that you might offer.
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That's RIGHT! Don't listen to the knowledgeable shooters! (who have been here longer than 4 months to see the problems with this ammo.
I know that the following questions are totally stupid (based on my join date and post count) but what are the magic numbers, regarding join dates and post counts, that indicate how intelligent or experienced one is? Does all credible experience begin only after belonging/posting heavily to arfcom for many years? Do early join dates and high post counts allow one to gain automatic admittance to Mensa and/or Illuminati? Thanks for any enlightenment that you might offer. You're not getting it.... Post count means nothing. I wouldn't care if a guy had only 1 post if had been here for the last several years paying attention. I wouldn't even be calling BS on the guy. (the relevant time frame for the specific topic is 9 years) If someone hasn't been here to see the problems with XM193 over the years.... How can said douchebag chime in and claim the ammo it "good stuff"? |
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If someone hasn't been here to see the problems with XM193 over the years.... How can said douchebag chime in and claim the ammo it "good stuff"? This forum is not the only source of valid information. Applying the criteria stated above, someone could have witnessed hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammo, including XM193, go down range and yet said person is a douche bag because he/she just joined arfcom yesterday. I'm not going to argue about it but join date here is not a perfect indicator of the quality of information that one gives/receives. Peace. |
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This forum is not the only source of valid information. Applying the criteria stated above, someone could have witnessed hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammo, including XM193, go down range and yet said person is a douche bag because he/she just joined arfcom yesterday. I'm not going to argue about it but join date here is not a perfect indicator of the quality of information that one gives/receives. Peace. I agree... ARFCOM is more often a source for totally incorrect information!!
But he obviously hasn't looked elsewhere either. Arfcom most certainly is NOT the only place where I've read accounts of XM193 problems. It's the classic Arf mentality (even I've been guilty of it before, but I try to avoid doing so).... for example.... A guy will have an Olympic Arms gun that happens to run... so he'll chime in and make the broad statement that Olys are fine and people are just bashing the brand when they haven't even owned one. |
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Nothing. All XM193 is the same regardless of the letter after it. It just designates the packaging. Buy it up. I don't buy that. Then don't buy it. GOODBYE!!
Ok, bye bye. For the rest of us... In my OP i simply asked what the letter after XM193 meant and to let those who would be interested know XM193 is or was available at that price at Natches. I think it was 2007 I bought 80 of the brown box XM193 but no letter and I paid $7.49 back then. When I get motivated I'm going to sell off my junk that type of ammo but not at 7.49 per 20 rounds. |
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Quoted: I've had more blown primers with xm193 than any other ammo. However, my SHTF stash ( as small as it is ) is xm193 from about 6 years ago. Never had a problem with the older stuff. Yes I'm old. The newer stuff seems to be more problematic tho. Between the three that you mentioned,which would you rather have as opposed to Winchester's Q3131? Or how about the Chinese made 3131? |
(I'll put this out first that no I did not research this) But what are the problems with Federal XM193? Is it FTF, FTE, dirty or just not the most accurate? And is this Federal XM193 or Federal American Eagle XM193 (or no difference between the two) This question does not attempt to incite a flame war or anything like it but to inform a newb to ar's. Well since my days in the army back in my youth. 
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For sure.... I don't mean to be a dick just for the sake of being a dick. I just get frustrated with the nonsense sometimes. markm, I'm sorry I tripped your trigger by simply saying that XM193 is "good stuff". I am glad to know, however, that we have mutual feelings about yourself. |
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I've had more blown primers with xm193 than any other ammo. However, my SHTF stash ( as small as it is ) is xm193 from about 6 years ago. Never had a problem with the older stuff. Yes I'm old. The newer stuff seems to be more problematic tho. Between the three that you mentioned,which would you rather have as opposed to Winchester's Q3131? Or how about the Chinese made 3131? For SHTF, I'd use the IMI thats available now. For just plinking/training I'd use whatever works in my guns. PMC/Centurian/Wolf. But honestly, the blown primers I've had are onlya half dozen or so our of more than a few thousand rounds, and more than a few lot numbers. I think the 3131A1 is Korean isnt it ? I havent tried it yet. |
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Well, based on these results I'd say this stuff is pretty darn good, regardless of experience or post count. I guess "Good stuff" is all relative. Link2 XM193= 5.56, 20 round brown box, 500rnds per case. XM193BK= 5.56, Loose Bulk, 1000 rnds per case. Not as pretty as the boxed stuff where some rounds may have small dents but still goes boom. XM193A and XM193AF= 5.56, rounds packed in ten round stripper clips, 900 per case. XM193C= 5.56 commercial package, American Eagle Tactical "Black Box," 20 round box. XM193CBP= 5.56, commercial package, American Eagle Tactical "Black Box", Loose rounds in 200 round bulk (value) pack. "Federal announces that packaging for XM193 is now done in Anoka, so a new part number (XM193F) was needed for FET purposes. THIS IS THE SAME ammo as XM193, and XM193C and apparently replaces both of these items." |
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The XM193F I just bought has a Lake City headstamp ('09 IIRC), annealed case, the single box I looked at visually looked fine. The outer carton said 'American Eagle Cartridge' as a line in the description, which my older XM193 cartons did not. I have not shot any XM193F yet.
My older XM193 has always been fairly accurate and very reliable. The very occasional bad round was an obvious quality reject - ding in case, a couple with weird corrosion or paint on them. |
| I don't believe all XM193 is the same. It may all come from the Anoka, Minnesota Lake City plant but there are differences however so small. Locally I found a couple boxes of (Lake City) Federal brown box XCM193 LOT-154 that has LC07 and NATO cross on it. It is fairly clean with minimal sealant on the case and some lube on it and a few cases with VERY small dents on them. I also found some (Lake City) Federal brown box XM193F LOT NO U 49 Z484 that is marked L C 0 9 without the NATO stamp. This ammo had a lot of sealant all over the case and almost zero case dents. Both have annealed mouths but the XM193 primers are all consistantly gold in color and the cases are farly bright whereas the XM193 has primers that are gold to a copper color and the brass is slightly less bright. This may have something to do with age and storage condtition not being the same. That's my .02 worth. |
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I think you'll all be interested to check out this rather LONG thread started by ChickenDaddy, who works for Federal.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=989436 In particular, read the 8th post on the 1st page also by ChickenDaddy. It's a very informative thread if you want to know the inside scoop at Federal ammuntion plants...Lake City included, although he works at the Anoka, MN plant. |
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I don't believe all XM193 is the same. It may all come from the Anoka, Minnesota Lake City plant but there are differences however so small. Locally I found a couple boxes of (Lake City) Federal brown box XCM193 LOT-154 that has LC07 and NATO cross on it. It is fairly clean with minimal sealant on the case and some lube on it and a few cases with VERY small dents on them. I also found some (Lake City) Federal brown box XM193F LOT NO U 49 Z484 that is marked L C 0 9 without the NATO stamp. This ammo had a lot of sealant all over the case and almost zero case dents. Both have annealed mouths but the XM193 primers are all consistantly gold in color and the cases are farly bright whereas the XM193 has primers that are gold to a copper color and the brass is slightly less bright. This may have something to do with age and storage condtition not being the same. That's my .02 worth. er what???I'm Pretty sure the Lake City Army ammo Plant is in MO |
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