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Posted: 1/7/2004 6:19:14 AM EDT
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I had this over on the "Bushmaster" page, but not getting any responses, so... Some background-- I'm new to this forum, but not new to the shooting sports. When not at the pistol range, I exercise my M1, M1903, M1903A3, M48, or other rifles. I'm shopping around for my first AR, and leaning towards 16" brl to be used at 50-100 yds, no competition. I want to keep this under $900 (hopefully closer to $800). I've seen the RR Standard A2 (20") locally for $789, but I have my sights set on a carbine. Any comments on these post-ban Bushmasters..? 1) A3 Short Carbine 2) A2 Short Carbine 3) A2 Dissipator 4) A3 Dissipator I plan to scope this, but maybe not immediately. The flat top A3 seems like the way to go, but it depends on the price point, A2 vs. A3. I've seen scoped A2 versions, but it seems like a fairly high mount position on the handle. Any comments from those with fixed handle A2's? thanks for all input... |
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Personally I'd get a flat top, that way you have the option if you want it. The dissipator with it's longer handguards and longer sight radius is probably the more practical of the two carbines. However appearance does play some role in choosing firearms and the carbines are generally considered to be "better looking." RRA does not always have chrome lined barrels, the bushies you are looking at should, a difference to be aware of. I have mounted scopes on carry handles and found them to be awkward on carbines. However plenty of US troops have stuck everything up to full size 3-9 hunting rifle scopes on their AR handles and managed to carry on. [:)] |
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I agree with Aimless. Get the A3. I'll also say don't spend the cash on the removable carry handle. For nearly the same amount of money (sometimes even cheaper!) get an ARMS 40 BUIS. When you scope the rifle you'll ditch the carryhandle anyway and will then probably want a BUIS. Bushy's are great. I also like RRA. Pete in NH (and I'm sure GPSS, ADCO and others) have RRA M4 profile barrels that ARE chrome lined. Chrome lining will be more durable, easier to clean, etc. FWIW, I don't like muzzle brakes on a 5.56 rifle. YMMV and I know some people disagree with me. It's a preferance thing. A brake will make the rifle much louder. Just keep that in mind. Also, since you're new to ARs. Read the ammo and mag FAQ pages. Stick to USGI mags and quality ammo and you'll be okay. Welcome! |
| True the RRA m4 barrels are chrome lined but (and I don't know I am asking) I think you lose a couple of inches of rifling with most m4 barrels over a regular carbine barrel, probably not important at the ranges you are firing, but it is a somewhat siginficant difference in the range at which the ammo will fragment (read the ammo faq that bookhound refers to for more info on that) also I have heard, and could be wrong, that the RRA m4 barrels are HBAR thickness under the handguards, or used to be? |
| I also agree with getting the A3 variant. To me it doesn't make any sense at all to ever get an A2 unless you are trying to recreate an original looking M16A2 or something along those lines. I bought mine with the carry handle. I later cut the handle portion off exposing the rail and mounted an Aimpoint Comp ML2. That way I always have my irons ready to go with full windage and elevation adjustments available if my Aimpoint loses power. I like the look of the Dissipators as long as a brake is mounted to the end. It just gives it a more balanced look. Either Shorty or Dissipator with the A3 carry handle will server you well. |
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I personally bought my first one as an A2 Carbine. I have learned to use the sights comfortably so i am not dependant on a scope/optic. My next AR will be a flatop mounted with some sort of optic. If you have not done so, read this: [url]jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/announcement.html?b=3&f=16&id=162[/url] then read this: [url]jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=17&t=163158[/url] then look through this: [url]jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=168415[/url] Then purchase most of your stuff here: [url]jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/board.html?b=7[/url] Good luck. |
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Aimless, I've never heard about losing rifling. I'd love to hear more about that. Regarding the profile under the handguard, your are correct that some manufacturers offer the M4-profile only forward of the sight base. Take a look at the bottom of [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=175889]this[/url] page from Pete in NH. The pre-ban barrel is HBAR size under the guards but the post ban is thin. I believe some of the J&T kits are like this too. I didn't know anybody made M4 barrels like that (thick under the guards, thin out front) until just a few days ago. I learn something new on this site everyday. [:)] |
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NEtracker; Nice move checking out info before dropping the cash, I was not that smart. I purchased a BM A2 20" SS model, love the gun, but the A3 makes way to much sense. From my dealings with BM, I think they, and their products are very reputable. Good luck with your purchase, and be prepared for the fever you are about to incur. Mike |
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Thanks All, I plan to get to my dealer next Tuesday to take a look at some BM's. I've never handled one. The rifles are staying in the safe this weekend! (-2F today on the ride in, windchill well below zero; so, No range trips this weekend! Maybe next weekend..) Plan to post again when I get the BM. |
| This is the best weather to shoot in experience wise it will show you how the rifle behaves in real cold weather.If you do just wipe off the excess oil from parts and lightly lube the carrier rails.Break free is real good for this as its good for -15 to -20.I am going to the range today as I banged in sick..its chilly today in the north east. |
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Depends on what you want to do with the rifle. My Aimpoint (a ML2) has a 4-MOA dot. This means the dot covers a 4" circle at 100 yards. Not exactly for precision shooting. However, I can keep all my off-hand shots on a paper plate at 100-yards easily. I've also engaged steel targets at 200 yards without problems. For precision work you're better off with a scope IMHO. You might consider an ACOG with BAC. That's the best of both worlds for many shooters. You can learn to use the scope like a dot for CQB work and you can use the magnification for longer, precision work. To be honest, with a 16" or less rifle, I think a dot is the way to go. That's because the shorter rifles are, to me, a shorter range firearm. Decide what the primary use of the rifle is going to be. Take a peek at the ammo oracle to determine what length rifle best fits your application (taking into consideration velocity and energy out of the various length barrels). That will help us better recommend a rifle setup. |
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Quoted: Aimless, I've never heard about losing rifling. I'd love to hear more about that. |
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I phrased that poorly. I just thought it was strange that my bushy had a longer "fragmenting range" (brouhaha will hit me when he sees that) than the real, issue m4s. Of course with the pumpkin sized fireball XM193 makes out of my post ban barrel I'd only get in one shot before they'd call in a mortar barrage figuring I was a firing a 155 howitzer [:P] |
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I have never been around one that was fired while I was not wearing plus and muffs, but they certainly kick up dirt, hay, tarps etc around a prone shooter almost as badly as a .50. The v-comps seem to be the worst offenders, as bookhound points out brakes do provide protection for the crown. I fired a full auto AR that had an AK brake and it worked pretty well, the gun was surprisingly controllable, but I have shot full-auto so little that I don't have much to compare it too. |
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Several of my friends have muzzle brakes and they like them. I'm one of the guys who thinks a brake is not necessary to control recoil. Training will do that. About the only thing I think they are good for is protecting the muzzle crown. They do add a lot of noise. The noise bothers some people (even with hearing protection). Others don't seem to care. Now, take off the hearing protection and tell me the extra noise doesn't bother you. [:D] |
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I was in the exact same boat as you just a couple of weeks ago. I got a Patrolman's Carbine Upper -- true 16", M4 barrel profile, A3 flattop config, postban unadorned muzzle. I am very happy with it. Like the poster above mentioned, I debated whether or not to get the removable carry handle or to just go to a ARMs #40 BUIS. I went with the carry handle just because I like the looks better, and I figured if I ever went to optics and a BUIS config, I could sell the carry handle on the Equipment Exchange board and recoup some of my original investment. The only potential negative I can say about my choice, and I don't know this for a fact yet because I haven't shot them yet, is that with my 1 in 9" barrel, it probably won't stabilize heavier bullets. BM says it's good up to 69 grainers, and while some on the board have stated that 1 in 9" can stabilize the Hornady 75 BTHP bullet, they aren't to keen on it stabilizing anything else (Sierra and Nosler 77 grain). It's kind of a luck of the draw type situation. If this is important to you, then look for a company that offers a 1 in 8" or 1 in 7" twist option. jmart |
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