AR Sponsor
Posted: 6/25/2013 8:01:02 AM EDT
|
Hey Guys,
I'd like to start by thanking everyone here for contributing to such a comprehensive resource for noobs like me. I've been reading this forum quite a bit trying to understand my way around the intricacies of the AR as well as what customization options I have at my disposal, and would just like to confirm I'm on the right track with the stuff I have learned thus far. I have a standard Sig m400 carbine length. I'm attempting to create a pretty basic home defense/SHTF/zombie apocalypse weapon. I will practice with it at the range and such but want it to be a solid defense weapon and will deal with its inefficiencies at longer distances and other tasks rather than try to make something that does everything, but does none of it well (thanks arfcom). I have already ordered a VTAC wide padded sling, 2 Troy polymer mags and 2 GI mags to go with the 1 it came with. I want to put a light on it, a foregrip, and an optic and be pretty much done for the time being. I was debating between just adding rails to the top and bottom of my standard handguard or getting a Magpul MOE. I'm leaning towards the MOE because it is easy to install (I really just want to pull mine off and pop a new one on the same way as opposed to going the free floating route) and easy to find parts and rails to put on it, particularly where you want it. Are there any other handguards that offer the same ease of installation and ease of modding I should be looking at? I feel a quad rail will be a bit of overkill because I won't be putting much on it, but all opinions will be valued and considered so if you have any other suggestions I would appreciate it. I would also just get the MOE foregrip as well as its ease of installation is a strong selling point. I also obviously like the very inexpensive price and they look pretty good together IMO. I think I have settled on placing a P2x Fury Defender http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=XSUP2XDABK&name=SUREFIRE+P2X+Fury+Defender&groupid=574 on the left side of the weapon just in front of the foregrip as I feel the transition from foregrip to light on the left side is very comfortable for me. The only thing I haven't decided on is which mount to use. I know MOE makes one for the scout but I'm not sure if it will fit the Fury. I could just throw a small rail piece either on the side or top and get an offset mount for it (think I saw gear sector makes a decent one) but would like opinions on the best way to go about this. The other option I have considered is getting a pistol style light mounted to the side like the M300 or the TLR-1. I'm leaning toward the button click of the Fury, but also like the low profile of the pistol style lights. Again any opinions on what would be better for my needs are appreciated. Other than that I'm just deciding between an EOtech XPS or Aimpoint Pro or H1. Love the battery life of the aimpoint but like the recticle in the EOtech much better. My one seal team buddy recommended EOtech because its what they use always but also said there is other good stuff out there and just figure out what I like best. I'm giving myself a bit more time to make this decision as I want to practice a bit more and become more proficient with the iron sights though, so I'm not as concerned with this one. Anyway that is about it. My apologies for the long winded OP but I very much appreciate and insight into the decisions I have made or anything I have done incorrectly. Thank you! href=https://imageshack.com/a/img829/3199/30oc.pngUploaded with ImageShack.com" /> |
|
"done incorrectly" If the gun works, its correct. If it works all the time, its 'right' customizing an AR is like picking a girlfriend. You are attracted to her for a variety of reasons, and over a period of time, you will leave that 'set up' and try another, then another, and another; until you get it "right for you". Then you 'marry it". Try it the way you 'think' it should be. Try to use the EE to buy and sell your accessories, it can help to keep costs down and move things that you wont need, didnt like, upgraded..... WFIW: dont get caught up in the coolaid. Build yours as simply as you can for what you want to do with it. Talk to other people about their stuff. build as necessary. Welcome to the ARF; I think your AR is fine just the was she is... but I am a KISS kinda guy. |
|
Thanks for the input. What I meant by incorrectly was that I'm noob enough to not be 100% sure that a MOE carbine length handguard will fit my AR. I'm pretty sure I need a carbine length and pretty sure it will be able to install in the fashion I described, but I'm not exactly sure. I also don't really know the best way to mount the flashlight or what mounts are most compatible. The purpose of the thread was really just to make sure I wasn't making any completely bone headed mistakes and was at least picking the right kind of components for what my goals were.
And thank you. I also like the KISS and am trying to keep it as simple as possible while adding a couple things that will help me out if I ever need to use it. |
|
Agree completely...If you want an eotech save for that, this is the most useful addition. This is a great item to buy used.. if it's beat up a little it just adds character. I like the 512 since it runs on AA batteries, but you may like something smaller and lighter.
IMO Don't just go throw a quad rail on it unless you have something you need to mount otherwise it's just added weight and they do get hot... there are other simple ways to add a flashlight if you feel you need one. I agree with you on the MOE I think thats a great way to go. It's light and you can put a small rail section for light and/or vertical grip. I use the MOE and really like it.. and I like the magpul stock, it's a bit tigher feeling. Just an eotech and magpul stock set for me is enough. Enjoy your fine new rifle. |
|
My recommendations for basic HD setups:
MOE handguards with Impact Weapon Components QD socket mounted. QD socket mounted near castlenut (as your M400 comes OEM) VTAC 2pt slings with IWC 2 to1 adapters. Mossie Midnight Mount on the FSB with TLR-1 HL 630 lumen light (ambi control access with no barrel shadowing) The light is easily transferable from pistol to rifle if using the same universal slot mount. Aimpoint H-1 in LaRue high mount or EoTech or similar RDS |
|
Welcome to the site. Some excellent recommendations already given along with your own excellent ideas of additions to your black rifle. Just some suggestions since it's your "first" AR.
Save up on getting the optic that you desire. But learn how to use those iron sights first. Vertical grips, not a necessity....try em. I did....if you like em....great. They tend to get in the way.... especially when you sand bag when shooting at the range. QD sockets.. Really nice to have when mounting your sling. A stock that gives you a good cheek weld. Lots of good ones on the market. Happy and safe shooting. 
As you can see....I do like KISS myself: 
|
|
I'll reply with what I know...
I like the Magpul stuff- near every single bit of it is well thought out, and they work well together or piece by piece. I'm pretty sure your carbine length handguards are "standard size" so you shouldn't have problems. Buy online with a joint that has an easy exchange policy, or support your LGS and bring it in for in immediate evaluation. Note: don't be discouraged if that delta ring won't separate the handguard pieces easily. It takes some time to break it in, or just get a buddy to help. Also note that current tactical thinking is to NOT use the vertical foregrip in the "beer can hold" I got off that train and have an AFG on mine; MUCH better, IMHO. But I think understand about how you're gonna use the foregrip and light mount together. I kinda do the same thing but with a railed sling attachment point on my other weapon. In terms of adding more stuff, I kinda don't think you have to. A good sling is mandatory, a light kinda optional and optics are your reward for consistently hitting MOZ (minute of zombie) with irons. I suppose you could add a bayonet if you wanted to. I'm pretty impressed with my AR bayonet (USGI) as a GP tool. IMHO, I would lean slightly towards the EoTech. The reticle seems to be a slightly faster pickup, esp. for a light, fast swinging weapon. I would suggest a model with the 123 batteries as I've heard there are problems with the AA versions- but it might have been an older rev. problem that engineering has since fixed. Let us know how the Troy mags work out. 5 mags is probably enough for now. Got a good case? |
|
I have a pretty basic RRA midlength m4 top.
512 eotech (chapest model and just as effective if you dont need NV) troy rear BUIS (just incase the eotech dies) MI front sight rail (how i mount the flashlight) veltor flashlight mount (how i mount the flashlight) surefire g2 (cheap light and can be easily removed if you need a regular light) cree replacement LED bulb (bought it from TNVC.com, think its a 250 lumen bulb) single point sling mount (can attach the rifle my vest or use a sling) I think the total cost comes in at around $2000 when it was built in 2009, not sure what it would cost now. |
|
Quoted:
I'll reply with what I know... I like the Magpul stuff- near every single bit of it is well thought out, and they work well together or piece by piece. I'm pretty sure your carbine length handguards are "standard size" so you shouldn't have problems. Buy online with a joint that has an easy exchange policy, or support your LGS and bring it in for in immediate evaluation. Note: don't be discouraged if that delta ring won't separate the handguard pieces easily. It takes some time to break it in, or just get a buddy to help. Also note that current tactical thinking is to NOT use the vertical foregrip in the "beer can hold" I got off that train and have an AFG on mine; MUCH better, IMHO. But I think understand about how you're gonna use the foregrip and light mount together. I kinda do the same thing but with a railed sling attachment point on my other weapon. In terms of adding more stuff, I kinda don't think you have to. A good sling is mandatory, a light kinda optional and optics are your reward for consistently hitting MOZ (minute of zombie) with irons. I suppose you could add a bayonet if you wanted to. I'm pretty impressed with my AR bayonet (USGI) as a GP tool. IMHO, I would lean slightly towards the EoTech. The reticle seems to be a slightly faster pickup, esp. for a light, fast swinging weapon. I would suggest a model with the 123 batteries as I've heard there are problems with the AA versions- but it might have been an older rev. problem that engineering has since fixed. Let us know how the Troy mags work out. 5 mags is probably enough for now. Got a good case? The thing about the EOTech reticle is the 65moa circle is great during the day but when it gets dark outside, it starts to wash out your target. So unless you are really close, up... the EOTech reticle is more difficult to use than the single dot of the aimpoint in low-no light conditions. The 2moa dot is pretty easy to pick up anyways. That is just my experience with them.... didn't keep me from buying several of them but i do prefer aimpoint. |
|
Quoted:
customizing an AR is like picking a girlfriend. You are attracted to her for a variety of reasons, and over a period of time, you will leave that 'set up' and try another, then another, and another; until you get it "right for you". Then you 'marry it". . That is a awesome analogy!!! |
|
Quoted:
The thing about the EOTech reticle is the 65moa circle is great during the day but when it gets dark outside, it starts to wash out your target. So unless you are really close, up... the EOTech reticle is more difficult to use than the single dot of the aimpoint in low-no light conditions. Turn down the brightness... |
|
Wow guys. Thanks a million for everyone taking the time to help me out. I'm very impressed. I'm also very pleased that for the most part I am on the right track. Thanks to everyone here I'm going to pick up the MOE handguard. A good friend of mine who is very experienced with ARs has a foregrip on his personal weapon and I really liked the way it felt. I'll get the MOE and if I don't end up liking it it was only an 18 dollar mistake and I can keep it around in case I change my mind later.
I'm going to think about the light a little bit more as both the surefire route and the TLR-1 route sound pretty good to me. The idea of being able to switch it out the TLR-1 to my handgun quickly was intriguing and made me consider that idea more than I had been. Other than that I'm going to take the advice given hear about learning to crush zombies with iron sights first and then take all the good info I received here (and the EO vs Aimpoint thread) and make a decision on that later. Some good news is after I made the OP my VTac sling and UTG Covert case arrived at my door. I was a little discouraged by the sling as it felt pretty complicated and I had attached it to the rear sling mount on the bottom and not higher one built into the stock. But once I got that figured out, watched some videos and got it fitting me pretty well, I must say I'm very impressed with it. It is very comfortable to carry both front and back, and it adds a lot of stability to my shooting stance when I tighten it up. Per the recommendations here and because I can see it is a little awkward having mounted in the front under the sight like I do, Ill get the QD sling attachment. I assume this one is solid ?(loving MOE more and more as they make my life easier already) MOE swivel link I must say the KISS guys are definitely after my own heart. I think she looks quite pretty as is. href=https://imageshack.com/a/img17/2091/fko.pngUploaded with ImageShack.com" /> |
|
Quoted:
Wow guys. Thanks a million for everyone taking the time to help me out. I'm very impressed. I'm also very pleased that for the most part I am on the right track. Thanks to everyone here I'm going to pick up the MOE handguard. A good friend of mine who is very experienced with ARs has a foregrip on his personal weapon and I really liked the way it felt. I'll get the MOE and if I don't end up liking it it was only an 18 dollar mistake and I can keep it around in case I change my mind later. I'm going to think about the light a little bit more as both the surefire route and the TLR-1 route sound pretty good to me. The idea of being able to switch it out the TLR-1 to my handgun quickly was intriguing and made me consider that idea more than I had been. Other than that I'm going to take the advice given hear about learning to crush zombies with iron sights first and then take all the good info I received here (and the EO vs Aimpoint thread) and make a decision on that later. Some good news is after I made the OP my VTac sling and UTG Covert case arrived at my door. I was a little discouraged by the sling as it felt pretty complicated and I had attached it to the rear sling mount on the bottom and not higher one built into the stock. But once I got that figured out, watched some videos and got it fitting me pretty well, I must say I'm very impressed with it. It is very comfortable to carry both front and back, and it adds a lot of stability to my shooting stance when I tighten it up. Per the recommendations here and because I can see it is a little awkward having mounted in the front under the sight like I do, Ill get the QD sling attachment. I assume this one is solid ?(loving MOE more and more as they make my life easier already) MOE swivel link I must say the KISS guys are definitely after my own heart. I think she looks quite pretty as is. http://<a href=https://imageshack.com/a/img17/2091/fko.png</a>Uploaded with ImageShack.com" /> put a carry handle on that bitch and keep as is.... stock ARs are beautiful |
|
Haha yea I have to agree. I definitely think it will only get uglier from here, but I'm going to try to limit the damage and make it as basic as possible while incorporating the goodies I want.
Also to the guys who recommended stocks, I think I'll probably add a MOE at some point too. I wouldn't mind it being a little tighter than my stock Sig one as well as a more substantial cheek weld.. However it is a lower priority and I'd like to try some out in person before buying. I like the look of this one quite a bit Moe Stock And this one Magpul STR Stock |
| Sad times. Just looked through the entire internet and was unable to find a Black MOE handguard carbine length in stock. Is this relatively common? Am I simply missing the correct places to be shopping? If it is going to be a really long time until they get back into stock I can figure out another way to get what I want while keeping the current handguard on, mostly thanks to all of the good info I have been given here. |
|
Congrats on your AR.
I bought the same weapon a few months ago. I added an Aimpoint CompM2, Magpul MS3 QD sling, MOE+ grip, a few magazines and ammo. I also tried out the MOE guards with a angled fore grip, and found that it is REALLY comfortable. I think you are making great choices so far. Simple builds are always a good route. Welcome! |
|
Thanks for the kind words. I haven't tried the angled foregrip yet but have heard good things from my one friend and read good things here. I will definitely try one out. Fortunately going the magpul route they are still quite inexpensive and it isn't a huge mistake even if it isn't the route I choose to go
|
|
Quoted:
Thanks for the kind words. I haven't tried the angled foregrip yet but have heard good things from my one friend and read good things here. I will definitely try one out. Fortunately going the magpul route they are still quite inexpensive and it isn't a huge mistake even if it isn't the route I choose to go YUP! Everything Magpul that I have tried has held up quite nicely. Plus, like you said, if you don't like it you can easily replace it. And, someone will always buy it if you don't want it. |
|
I agree with the Magpul hand-guard rout because they are inexpensive and good quality. Secondly thisis a nice light solution for the MOE. Finally I personally like Aimpoint better, but YMMV.
|
|
Quoted:
I agree with the Magpul hand-guard rout because they are inexpensive and good quality. Secondly thisis a nice light solution for the MOE. Finally I personally like Aimpoint better, but YMMV. I would just keep the factory handguard. Back when i bought my first AR i didn't even make it home before i had gone to sportsmans warehouse to buy a bunch of magpul furniture.... and looking back on it, its something that i'm not very proud of  . I try to limit my magpul consumption to PMags and CTRs.
|
|
Quoted:
I agree with the Magpul hand-guard rout because they are inexpensive and good quality. Secondly thisis a nice light solution for the MOE. Finally I personally like Aimpoint better, but YMMV. Thanks for the assurance. Also that IWC mount looks very solid. I will definitely consider that heavily as it seems to very popular around here and looks like it goes on to the moe quite easily. Quoted:
Quoted:
I agree with the Magpul hand-guard rout because they are inexpensive and good quality. Secondly thisis a nice light solution for the MOE. Finally I personally like Aimpoint better, but YMMV. I would just keep the factory handguard. Back when i bought my first AR i didn't even make it home before i had gone to sportsmans warehouse to buy a bunch of magpul furniture.... and looking back on it, its something that i'm not very proud of . I try to limit my magpul consumption to PMags and CTRs.I respect this opinion and frankly think there is a decent chance I'll agree with it in the future. But as a newb, the MOE stuff is just making it too easy and inexpensive to get my rifle set up the way I want, while still looking pretty cool. I recognize I'll probably hate the look when I show up to the range and I see MOE furniture everywhere I look, but for right now I think it makes the most sense. I could see myself potentially upgrading to some big boy handguards in the future when my skill and understanding increase, but I like that I'll have no need to. Quoted:
Spikes Tactical has the black MOE handguards in stock. I just received a black set from them last week. Give them a call you won't be disappointed. You just made my day sir. Internet high five!! Got the handguard from Spikes ordered and the VG ordered from AIM surplus. Now onto my QD swivel and make a final decision on what light I want. On another note my Troy Battlemags came in today and I like them quite a bit. I saw the polymer mag test thread after I purchased them and wasn't overly thrilled to see they were the first to bust fully, but I also was very impressed with how long they did last, which is surely much more abuse than mine will likely ever see, so overall I'm happy to have them. I like the fish scales as they feel nice and look pretty cool IMO. With that said I'll probably stick with Pmags from here on out because I'm such a magpul guy now
ETA: I just wanted to thank everyone again. All of the input I have received has given me a lot of confidence in the moves I'm making and the suggestions for things I haven't had the time to research enough yet like lighting mounts and QD swivels have made my life a lot easier. Thanks guys! |
|
OK gents I could use some help with with my final light decision here. I have it narrowed down to two light/mount options, and would like to know if there is anything tactically inefficient about either, although I guess I'm really asking about one because the other is very common place here.
The first and very common one is: Light: Surefire Fury Defender Mount: IWC Mount I have no real questions about this set up as I see lots of guys around here using it. I just don't like how it looks as much, how much space it takes up, and where it is mounted in relation to the QD sling attachment. If I mounted the light mount on the front most slot on the MOE I would not be able to place the QD sling there, and I'm not all that keen on putting the light further back. The second option is: Light: TLR-1 HL Mount: MI Front Sight Rail Mount I found this option thanks to the posts ITT, and didn't even know mounting to the front sight existed. A poster earlier in the thread posting a KISS rifle has a similar setup and I love the way it looks. It is very unobtrusive and I really like how little space the overall setup takes up. It also frees up that section of the handguard for the QD mount. Is there anything tactically disadvantageous using this set up? I would mount it to the left side of the sight with the foregrip furthest forward, so in theory a quick release of the thumb off the foregrip could reach up and switch the TLR-1. Is the switch too much of a pain in the ass compared to the button push of the fury? Anything else I'm missing? Overall I like the idea of being able to take the TLR-1 off and mounting it on a sidearm, but I also like the idea of taking the fury off and using it as a regular flashlight. If they are both considered equal overall and it is just a matter of what I like, I'll probably lean towards the TLR-1, but I know I'd be happy with either so I want to make sure I'm not making any tactical mistakes. |
Well I'm pretty sure I'm way too new around here to make fun of a guy with 28k posts for not reading the OP or subsequent posts and then responding  but yea I agree with what you said. I already have a sling, I'm working on what light to get, and after a while of practicing with irons I'm going to get an optic. The only deviation from your suggestion in my plan is I really like foregrips and the brief training I've had thus far has been using a foregrip. Also I'm getting the MOE handguard to help me mount the light and foregrip. Other than that, I want to keep it pretty basic and good at what I want it to do, which is kill bad guys and zombies in a SHTF type scenario if I ever find myself in one. Also home defense after I get legitimate training on how to do so.
I'm still open to any advice regarding my last post and my two light options. After thinking about it for a while I'm not much closer to a decision, so I am hoping someone here may have some information I was not previously aware of that could swing my decision one way or another 
|
| Mount this flashlight mount on your bayonet lug to free up space on your rails. IMO, it is the perfect location for your light. BLAM AR15 Bayonet mount |
|
Quoted:
Mount this flashlight mount on your bayonet lug to free up space on your rails. IMO, it is the perfect location for your light. BLAM AR15 Bayonet mount Thanks, that looks like another good option. Doesn't help my situation at all though as I was struggling to decide between the original two . I'm still not sure which I wan't but figure I'll just wait for the handguard and foregrip to get here and then make a decision based on how much room I have based on where my final foregrip location is. That is, unless someone has any information that can sway me.
I've been tossing around the idea of just putting a TLR-1 HL mounted directly to the side of the handguard furthest forward. I feel like that would be pretty compact location for it, but feel it may be located too far back to use effectively. Anyone have any thoughts on that location on a carbine length? |
|
Well it took a bit longer than I wanted to get it finished up, but it took me a a few days to make a final decision and then it took quite a while for the mount to ship, but here she is.
href=http://imageshack.com/a/img23/905/b7l3.pngUploaded with ImageShack.com" /> I put a Fury Defender mounted with the IWC Slot-n-Mount. It feels very secure, but the Defender was pretty tough to get in the mount. I imagine it is the biggest possible diameter that can fit in the 1" ring, but its in there. Earl from IWC has been pretty helpful throughout and ensured me that it is mounted securely, so I'm comfortable with that. I got a couple more mags and now will just focus on ammo and training. Speaking of, anyone have any good HD/SHTF ammo suggestions? I read the FAQ in the ammo forum but cant find any of the "best" stuff anywhere. So I guess I'm just looking for reasonably good stuff that is available currently. The Xtac green tips seem to be around at some reasonable prices. That is likely the direction I will go unless anyone has any better suggestions. Thank you again to everyone who helped me make the decisions I did. I'm very happy with the way it has turned out. I love the way it feels and quite like the way it looks. So all is good. After I've got a few K rounds with the irons under my belt I intend to get an aimpoint pro. I like the recticle of the EOTECHS better but not ever having to worry about battery life and toughness are the major selling points for me toward aimpoint. I also will probably upgrade the stock at some point.. But no real rush. I would like a more substantial cheek weld, and a friction lock. The play in the stock doesn't bother me much, but I would prefer not to have it there if I can. Some of the magpul stocks look like they will fit the bill nicely, but as I'm in no real rush, I'll probably wait until I can try a few out. Other than that just working on putting together a chest rig and I will be all set for when the zombies arrive 
Thanks again guys! All feedback and further suggestions still welcome. Especially on ammo and stocks 
|
AR Sponsor