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Posted: 4/10/2004 11:57:20 AM EDT
| Hi, I'm new to the Forum, and am thinking of buying an AR-15 type rifle. I'm pretty certain I want a 16" Carbine, as opposed to the Rifle, or the 14" M 4 style weapons. Anyway, I was thinking of a Bushmaster, or a Colt Then I saw Fulton Armory's website. Does anyone have any experience with Fulton Armory AR's? Who makes the best AR? Primary use will be practising with iron sites from off hand positions, and hopefully not for my second tour to Iraq. Any info would be appreciated, v/r Greg. |
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Quoted: Who makes the best AR? You can't go wrong with Colt or Bushmaster. Does anyone have any experience with Fulton Armory AR's I bought a Colt A1 barrel from Fulton Armory. It's perfect and went right into a C7 upper from Bushmaster. [}:D] Welcome aboard! [wave] |
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Quoted: You can't go wrong with Colt [red]6400C[/red] or Bushmaster. The Colt 6400C (16" post-ban M4 Carbine) is a great rifle, as are the LEO-only configs, but I'm not a fan of the other Colt civilian offerings, due to their "price-saving" lack of chrome, plastic parts, pivot screw, and so on. No one is happier than me that they did their M4 Carbine right, but they need to do this with their other guns. I agree with the Bushmaster part, though, as well as with Armalite. -Troy |
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Well, first Colt has always intentionally changed the configuration of their civilian guns, presumably to gain some imagined protection from legal hassles. In reality, those changes are totally meaningless from a legal and political standpoint, but they're a pain in the ass for the user. Original Colt rifles were made using old XM16 lower receiver raw forgings, which were "slab-side" and required a double-headed screw for the pivot pin. Except they made the pin oversize and off-center to make it more difficult for military uppers to be installed. Note that they had already switched to "fenced" push-pin lowers for the M16 by the time the first commercial AR15s were sold, but they wanted to use up their stock of XM16 forgings. Thus, SP1s and Sporters were slab-size with large pivot pins. Around the time of the AW ban, Colt finally switched to standard-sized pivot pins (they had run out of slab-size lower forgings in the late 80's), but they still insisted on a screw instead of a Mil-Spec push-pin for no apparent reason. Even worse, at the same time they went back to small-hole pivot pins, they changed the fire-control pins to a larger, non-standard size, requiring custom fire-control parts. This remains true today, even with LEO rifles. Only select-fire Colt rifles come with standard-size fire control parts now. Then, in 1997, as part of a price-cutting measure, they dropped the chrome-lining of their civilian barrels, switched from Mil-Spec aluminum buffers to crappy plastic ones, and changed the trap-door from aluminum to plastic (this last change isn't a big deal, admittedly). Guns with military barrels (20" A2 and 14.5" M4, and later 16" M4) were still chrome-lined, but all of the HBAR barrels were only chromed at the chamber. Note that LEO guns were fully Mil-Spec except for the fire-control parts, but of course, normal folks can't get these. Finally, 18 months or so ago, IIRC, the civilian Colt "M4 Carbine", model 6400C, was released. It was the first civilian rifle (other than the rare "white-label" government-model guns of the early 90s) to come with a Mil-Spec push-pin pivot pin from the factory. It also had the proper aluminum buffer and a fully chromed barrel. Due to the laws, it had a "fixed-collapsable" stock and a junky, poorly-secured "compensator", but is otherwise the best rifle Colt has put out in years. Hopefully, this is a trend and not just a one-off event. -Troy |
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Just to add to what Troy said, Colt has improved their fit and finish a lot in the last few years. Under previous ownership, they were making Match Targets on a "had to", sporadic basis. I remember being at Fin Feather Fur in Ohio (a really big gun store) in the late '90s when they got a huge shipment of Colts in (must have been 50 rifles at least). Everyone I saw looked like it was rushed...they all had marks and scratches everywhere on them. Now, with the new 6400 and the other models (although they dropped the best bbl configuration in the 6551 IMHO) they look as good as any other brand out there. If you get a Colt you will be happy. Kevin |
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Thanks Troy, It's alway nice to get some facts. I did a lot of reading and research before buying, mostly here on AR15.com and on links recommended from helpful people on this site. It amazed me the lack of knowledge from all of the dealers that I had talked to during the buying process. I heard all the "facts" (LOL) from them and I couldn't believe what I was hearing from them almost 100% of the time. Or should I say not once were any of them 100% right on the so called facts they were telling me. My advice to anyone buying an ar15 would be listen to the knowledgable people here, get the spec's before buying and figure out what's important and what is not. I ended up with Colt m4 (mt6400c). I was a little partial to colt because I have a few other Colt firearms but, the Bushnaster I think would have been a great choice as well. Another factor for me was the barrel twists rate, I felt the 1/7 twist rate verses the 1/9 twist rate would be better for me. Anyway good luck with your new AR when you decide on the one you want. I can't give you much advise because I am new to this as well but, one thing of importance I will mention, if a crome lined barrel is important to you and from what I have read, it probably should be, my understanding is that a crome molly barrel is not the same thing as as crome lined barrel. Try to find a post on the subject and check it out or post question on what the diference is between the two of them. And..... TROY, I have read a lot of your posts and replies to posts, thanks for the knowledge you are willing to share and to the other's who do the same. Sometims it's hard to sift through the people who sound like they know what they're talking about and the one's that do. If I had listened to the dealers I had talked to and even to some of the people that post here on subjects that they really don't know enough about to be giving advise or stating things in a factual manner, I would have spent, what I consider alot of money and ended up with something that was not as good as I thought and not exactly what I wanted. Goodluck |
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It amazes me. Everytime I go into the local gunshops, they never have the AR15 model you want, but something else is "just-as good" You buy it, take it home[are not happy]. End up eventually getting what was originally what you wanted[more money spent]. What's the real kicker with the gunshops is, they won't lift a finger to order the one you want, even if you can direct them to a sure internet source. Get the model you want in the beginning,even if it costs a bit more or takes more effort/time to find. YOU will be happier. |
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Thats totally true.I ordered a DPMS low-pro classic from a LEO I know and I liked it alot except it will take 4-6wks to arrive.So I decided to shop around for one but couldn't find anything I liked in the price range as the DPMS.Even used guns were 200+ more and it wasn't exactly what I wanted. I guess i'll have to wait but will probably be more worth it in the end. |
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Quoted: The comp is attached with a pair of roll pins that have a tendancy to sheer. They're easily removed, and yes, you could have the barrel threaded when the time comes. -Troy Troy, you're the man. I didn't ask the question, and I'm not looking at Colts either, but some of this info is so good that very often when you post, I don't bother to 'Tag' but go straight to File->Save As. You never know when that tidbit may come in handy. |
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