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Posted: 12/23/2008 9:46:52 PM EDT
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I see peoples rifles with all kinds of different Flash hider/comps on them...
say A2 vs. Vortex vs. Phantom vs. Medieval vs. Noveske KX3... (btw: KX3 $125 for a chunk of metal, whats so special about it that it requires such a high price?) at the end of the day, is there really that much difference? they are all supposed to do the same job... |
... but $125 for a flash hider is dumb, save it and buy a silencer...
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Take apart a KX3 some time, lots of machine work there.
All cars will get you where your going. Just some do it better. Good flash suppressors generally will work better than cheap ones because cheap ones are usually made out of cheap steel that does not hold up well when heat treated. Tap on a Smith vortex, a phantom or an old A1 three prong flash suppressor some time and listen to it ring like a tuning fork. Why is that important? The heat treated FS vibrates and suppresses the flash by disrupting the combustion process of the still burning gases released when the bullet exits the muzzle Google search US patent 05596961 for a better explanation. Non heat treated FS work, Just generally not as well. Heat treating a FS adds cost to the fire arm. If it was not worth it I think the Govt would tell Colt not to have it done so they could save a few bucks on every M4. Flash suppressors suppress the combustion flash process, Flash Hiders hide it. Some powders will produce fire balls no matter what FS you use. The best flash suppressor is a sound suppressor which also happens to be the best muzzle break IMHO. BTW IMHO KX3 is a decent "noise re-director" on 5.56 pistols. Does not make it any quieter just redirects the muzzle blast forward. I suspect it may also create a little extra dwell time for pistols and SBR's to help them function a bit better. |
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Take apart a KX3 some time, lots of machine work there. All cars will get you where your going. Just some do it better. Good flash suppressors generally will work better than cheap ones because cheap ones are usually made out of cheap steel that does not hold up well when heat treated. Tap on a Smith vortex, a phantom or an old A1 three prong flash suppressor some time and listen to it ring like a tuning fork. Why is that important? The heat treated FS vibrates and suppresses the flash by disrupting the combustion process of the still burning gases released when the bullet exits the muzzle Google search US patent 05596961 for a better explanation. Non heat treated FS work, Just generally not as well. Heat treating a FS adds cost to the fire arm. If it was not worth it I think the Govt would tell Colt not to have it done so they could save a few bucks on every M4. Flash suppressors suppress the combustion flash process, Flash Hiders hide it. Some powders will produce fire balls no matter what FS you use. The best flash suppressor is a sound suppressor which also happens to be the best muzzle break IMHO. BTW IMHO KX3 is a decent "noise re-director" on 5.56 pistols. Does not make it any quieter just redirects the muzzle blast forward. I suspect it may also create a little extra dwell time for pistols and SBR's to help them function a bit better. Dear God this post is horrible.... The vibrations do nothing to reduce flash. That is marketing mumbo jumbo. Put a silencer on a Blackout equipped rifle that produces no flash and now you will get some flash with a SBR where there was none. Silencers are not very good flash hiders when compared to the best flash hiders. Silencers are NOT the best muzzle brakes either. A muzzle brake is the best muzzle brake just like a flash hider is the best flash hider. Silencers generally add a SIGNIFICANT and LARGE amount of recoil when replacing a muzzle brake. |
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I see peoples rifles with all kinds of different Flash hider/comps on them... say A2 vs. Vortex vs. Phantom vs. Medieval vs. Noveske KX3... (btw: KX3 $125 for a chunk of metal, whats so special about it that it requires such a high price?) at the end of the day, is there really that much difference? they are all supposed to do the same job... A2 is OK as a flash hider, nearly completely worthless as a comp. Vortex is one of the best flash hiders made. Its in the top end of flash hiders along with BE Meyers and the Blackout. Phantom is almost as good as the Vortex but much lighter and cheaper. Still get small flames at the prongs on a SBR. Midievil (the Troy you mean?) is a comp, not a flash hider. Comps and muzzle brakes are usually loud if they work well. KX3 is like a chopped off silencer, creates a jet of flame forward so the shooter cant see it. Increases back pressure and redirects blast forward. Somewhat usefull on a SBR. Not as good at flash reduction as a Phantom... nowhere near a Vortex or Blackout. |
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Take apart a KX3 some time, lots of machine work there. All cars will get you where your going. Just some do it better. Good flash suppressors generally will work better than cheap ones because cheap ones are usually made out of cheap steel that does not hold up well when heat treated. Tap on a Smith vortex, a phantom or an old A1 three prong flash suppressor some time and listen to it ring like a tuning fork. Why is that important? The heat treated FS vibrates and suppresses the flash by disrupting the combustion process of the still burning gases released when the bullet exits the muzzle Google search US patent 05596961 for a better explanation. Non heat treated FS work, Just generally not as well. Heat treating a FS adds cost to the fire arm. If it was not worth it I think the Govt would tell Colt not to have it done so they could save a few bucks on every M4. Flash suppressors suppress the combustion flash process, Flash Hiders hide it. Some powders will produce fire balls no matter what FS you use. The best flash suppressor is a sound suppressor which also happens to be the best muzzle break IMHO. BTW IMHO KX3 is a decent "noise re-director" on 5.56 pistols. Does not make it any quieter just redirects the muzzle blast forward. I suspect it may also create a little extra dwell time for pistols and SBR's to help them function a bit better. Dear God this post is horrible.... The vibrations do nothing to reduce flash. That is marketing mumbo jumbo. Put a silencer on a Blackout equipped rifle that produces no flash and now you will get some flash with a SBR where there was none. Silencers are not very good flash hiders when compared to the best flash hiders. Silencers are NOT the best muzzle brakes either. A muzzle brake is the best muzzle brake just like a flash hider is the best flash hider. Silencers generally add a SIGNIFICANT and LARGE amount of recoil when replacing a muzzle brake. I base my statements on personal experience, 20+ years in and around various Mil and LE communities, Numerous discussions with engineers and more. I have seen with my own eyes and/or fired MP5s,MP5-SDs and M4s and M4A1s,M14s,M21s and M24s suppressed and un suppressed. M16A1s with three prongs and birdcages, M16A2s,GAU5s, M-60&D, M240Bs,Gs, and Hs, the venerable .50 Cal Ma Deuce, The MK19 Mod0 and 3 And a butt load of civilian arms with every kind of muzzle thingy imaginable. I have been shot at and missed by AKs, RPKs, PKMs, KPVs, RPGs and ZSUs. If vibration is of no use in flash suppression then why would the Army pony up the extra dough to have Smith Vortex FS as standard on the M240H, Why have a prong type FS as standard on MK19 Mod 3? why is AACs Blackout shaped like a prong type (tuning fork) and not like a "birdcage"? For that matter why do we all not run even cheaper and easier to produce cone type flash hider designs dating from between WWI and WWII? What I posted was based on my personal observation,education and experience. I'm not at all offended that you disagree or find my post horrible . This is still America. Happy New Year. |
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Take apart a KX3 some time, lots of machine work there. All cars will get you where your going. Just some do it better. Good flash suppressors generally will work better than cheap ones because cheap ones are usually made out of cheap steel that does not hold up well when heat treated. Tap on a Smith vortex, a phantom or an old A1 three prong flash suppressor some time and listen to it ring like a tuning fork. Why is that important? The heat treated FS vibrates and suppresses the flash by disrupting the combustion process of the still burning gases released when the bullet exits the muzzle Google search US patent 05596961 for a better explanation. Non heat treated FS work, Just generally not as well. Heat treating a FS adds cost to the fire arm. If it was not worth it I think the Govt would tell Colt not to have it done so they could save a few bucks on every M4. Flash suppressors suppress the combustion flash process, Flash Hiders hide it. Some powders will produce fire balls no matter what FS you use. The best flash suppressor is a sound suppressor which also happens to be the best muzzle break IMHO. BTW IMHO KX3 is a decent "noise re-director" on 5.56 pistols. Does not make it any quieter just redirects the muzzle blast forward. I suspect it may also create a little extra dwell time for pistols and SBR's to help them function a bit better. Dear God this post is horrible.... The vibrations do nothing to reduce flash. That is marketing mumbo jumbo. Put a silencer on a Blackout equipped rifle that produces no flash and now you will get some flash with a SBR where there was none. Silencers are not very good flash hiders when compared to the best flash hiders. Silencers are NOT the best muzzle brakes either. A muzzle brake is the best muzzle brake just like a flash hider is the best flash hider. Silencers generally add a SIGNIFICANT and LARGE amount of recoil when replacing a muzzle brake. I base my statements on personal experience, 20+ years in and around various Mil and LE communities, Numerous discussions with engineers and more. I have seen with my own eyes and/or fired MP5s,MP5-SDs and M4s and M4A1s,M14s,M21s and M24s suppressed and un suppressed. M16A1s with three prongs and birdcages, M16A2s,GAU5s, M-60&D, M240Bs,Gs, and Hs, the venerable .50 Cal Ma Deuce, The MK19 Mod0 and 3 And a butt load of civilian arms with every kind of muzzle thingy imaginable. I have been shot at and missed by AKs, RPKs, PKMs, KPVs, RPGs and ZSUs. If vibration is of no use in flash suppression then why would the Army pony up the extra dough to have Smith Vortex FS as standard on the M240H, Why have a prong type FS as standard on MK19 Mod 3? why is AACs Blackout shaped like a prong type (tuning fork) and not like a "birdcage"? For that matter why do we all not run even cheaper and easier to produce cone type flash hider designs dating from between WWI and WWII? What I posted was based on my personal observation,education and experience. I'm not at all offended that you disagree or find my post horrible . This is still America. Happy New Year. Even Silvers, who designed the Blackout, will tell you that vibrations are not whats causing the flash. Its about disrupting ignition with airflow. Go ask for yourself if you dont want to believe me. He can show you pics of silencers producing muzzle flash where there was none before as well. Your statements are patently false. It has nothing to do with experience as a soldier, just scientific facts. Bad info like you just gave out tends to get repeated over and over and is very difficult to correct once it starts circulating. Sorry about how I worded the post but facts are.... well... facts. To answer your question. Open prong flash hiders are more efficient because they use the enitre length to suppres flash. You could make a closed prong flash hider just as effective, but it would be longer. |
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Take apart a KX3 some time, lots of machine work there. All cars will get you where your going. Just some do it better. Good flash suppressors generally will work better than cheap ones because cheap ones are usually made out of cheap steel that does not hold up well when heat treated. Tap on a Smith vortex, a phantom or an old A1 three prong flash suppressor some time and listen to it ring like a tuning fork. Why is that important? The heat treated FS vibrates and suppresses the flash by disrupting the combustion process of the still burning gases released when the bullet exits the muzzle Google search US patent 05596961 for a better explanation. Non heat treated FS work, Just generally not as well. Heat treating a FS adds cost to the fire arm. If it was not worth it I think the Govt would tell Colt not to have it done so they could save a few bucks on every M4. Flash suppressors suppress the combustion flash process, Flash Hiders hide it. Some powders will produce fire balls no matter what FS you use. The best flash suppressor is a sound suppressor which also happens to be the best muzzle break IMHO. BTW IMHO KX3 is a decent "noise re-director" on 5.56 pistols. Does not make it any quieter just redirects the muzzle blast forward. I suspect it may also create a little extra dwell time for pistols and SBR's to help them function a bit better. Dear God this post is horrible.... The vibrations do nothing to reduce flash. That is marketing mumbo jumbo. Put a silencer on a Blackout equipped rifle that produces no flash and now you will get some flash with a SBR where there was none. Silencers are not very good flash hiders when compared to the best flash hiders. Silencers are NOT the best muzzle brakes either. A muzzle brake is the best muzzle brake just like a flash hider is the best flash hider. Silencers generally add a SIGNIFICANT and LARGE amount of recoil when replacing a muzzle brake. I base my statements on personal experience, 20+ years in and around various Mil and LE communities, Numerous discussions with engineers and more. I have seen with my own eyes and/or fired MP5s,MP5-SDs and M4s and M4A1s,M14s,M21s and M24s suppressed and un suppressed. M16A1s with three prongs and birdcages, M16A2s,GAU5s, M-60&D, M240Bs,Gs, and Hs, the venerable .50 Cal Ma Deuce, The MK19 Mod0 and 3 And a butt load of civilian arms with every kind of muzzle thingy imaginable. I have been shot at and missed by AKs, RPKs, PKMs, KPVs, RPGs and ZSUs. If vibration is of no use in flash suppression then why would the Army pony up the extra dough to have Smith Vortex FS as standard on the M240H, Why have a prong type FS as standard on MK19 Mod 3? why is AACs Blackout shaped like a prong type (tuning fork) and not like a "birdcage"? For that matter why do we all not run even cheaper and easier to produce cone type flash hider designs dating from between WWI and WWII? What I posted was based on my personal observation,education and experience. I'm not at all offended that you disagree or find my post horrible . This is still America. Happy New Year. Even Silvers, who designed the Blackout, will tell you that vibrations are not whats causing the flash. Its about disrupting ignition with airflow. Go ask for yourself if you dont want to believe me. He can show you pics of silencers producing muzzle flash where there was none before as well. Your statements are patently false. It has nothing to do with experience as a soldier, just scientific facts. Bad info like you just gave out tends to get repeated over and over and is very difficult to correct once it starts circulating. Sorry about how I worded the post but facts are.... well... facts. To answer your question. Open prong flash hiders are more efficient because they use the enitre length to suppres flash. You could make a closed prong flash hider just as effective, but it would be longer. At No time did I state vibrations cause flash. You said this "Its about disrupting ignition with airflow." better than I,,, and that's what I was trying to relate when I referenced " US patent 05596961 for a better explanation." I will seek out Even Silvers for his take on these things for sure. I am not a lab rat and would like to understand better how and why these and many other other gizmos have produced the results that I have observed in the real world on numerous occasions.I think If we don't bother to learn something new every day then we are just vegetables. Sorry about how I worded the post No apologies necessary,I'm not offended. |
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