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Posted: 12/1/2014 1:10:13 PM EDT
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Went to the local MAAC show this past weekend in Novi, scored a real beauty. Cruising the tables I noticed a lonely upper on this guy's table. 16" stainless barrel, seller says it's 300blk. Not really into that stuff, but the receiver is what really caught my eye. I knew what it was immediately, and upon closer inspection, I couldn't believe what I was holding. Had to go to the ATM to get the funds, and you bet I was damn near running!!
My camera is a dinosaur, so the pics are shit, but the Colt proofs are scrisp, you can actually read the VP stamp. Few marks here and there, but still in nice, orignial condition. Not sure what I'm going to do with it yet, but as of now it is not for sale. Guy just had no clue what he had. 
Original black lugs. 
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Quoted:
Excellent find! I was at that show on Saturday and don't recall seeing it. Thanks! Ya it was pretty random. Guy had a couple nice bolt guns on bipods on his table and a few other things, definitely out of place. I bought it at around noon IIRC. Lucky I spotted it, it was easy to overlook. Funny, a few weeks back when you found the pile of dimpled pins I was wining that I never find any retro scores at Novi...... |
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I don't know why it is significant  It is a very rare type of upper from early Air Force contracts, from around 1965 IIRC. Colt used A1 forgings with the forward assist boss milled off like this to complete a USAF contract that called for no forward assist, or so the story goes. They were used on early models 604 and 605. |
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It is a very rare type of upper from early Air Force contracts, from around 1965 IIRC. Colt used A1 forgings with the forward assist boss milled off like this to complete a USAF contract that called for no forward assist, or so the story goes. They were used on early models 604 and 605. Quoted:
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I don't know why it is significant It is a very rare type of upper from early Air Force contracts, from around 1965 IIRC. Colt used A1 forgings with the forward assist boss milled off like this to complete a USAF contract that called for no forward assist, or so the story goes. They were used on early models 604 and 605. .....and it has the Colt proofmarks, which means it was actually built as a complete rifle......not just a "spare" upper receiver. |
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Quoted: .....and it has the Colt proof marks, which means it was actually built as a complete rifle......not just a "spare" upper receiver. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't know why it is significant It is a very rare type of upper from early Air Force contracts, from around 1965 IIRC. Colt used A1 forgings with the forward assist boss milled off like this to complete a USAF contract that called for no forward assist, or so the story goes. They were used on early models 604 and 605. .....and it has the Colt proof marks, which means it was actually built as a complete rifle......not just a "spare" upper receiver. |
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Help me understand this "complete rifle" statement. I have owned a few stripped uppers with the proof fired VP mark that were new, unfired un-barreled, unbuilt original finish uppers with the VP proof. This along with the fact the proofs are anodized over lead me to believe Colt marked them before assembly. This is just my observation, but I would love to know for sure. Quoted:
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I don't know why it is significant It is a very rare type of upper from early Air Force contracts, from around 1965 IIRC. Colt used A1 forgings with the forward assist boss milled off like this to complete a USAF contract that called for no forward assist, or so the story goes. They were used on early models 604 and 605. .....and it has the Colt proof marks, which means it was actually built as a complete rifle......not just a "spare" upper receiver. Proofs are not anodized over. Proofs are stamped after anodizing, and if you look very closely at them with a jewelers lupe, you can tell that the stampo is done after anodizing. The proof mark's surface looks different, in that it is shiney/glossy from where the "rough" texture of the anodizing is "smashed" flat from the punch. Imagine the anodizing being peaks and valleys (which it is) and when stamped with the proof mark stamp the peaks are flattened down. You can plainly see that IF, IF you look at them with a lupe. I have quite a few A1 upper receivers ( about a dozen or more).....most have been refinished at some point. Others, I do not know if they have been refinished or not. I do have two Colt uppers that are on what I know to be two unmolested rifles. On the one, it is evident by the naked eye that the proofs are done after anodizing. So, a better question may be.........just where did you buy these "stripped, unfired, new, un-barreled, unbuilt uppers"? If the upper receivers have the proof marks, I'd suggest that they aren't new and unused uppers......but I may be wrong, in which case some of the very knowledgable members here might chime in. Edit.....I might also add that there many Colt upper receivers in existence today that DO NOT have the proof marks. Rebuilt M16's (of whatever flavor you wish) often had replacement upper receivers. Those upper receivers DO NOT have proof marks, Why? Did someone forget to stamp them prior to anodizing? Did someone forget to stamp them after anodizing? No.......they did not get stamped because they were not built into complete rifles at Colt's facility. |
Also, having proofs means almost certainly that it was an AF 604, since Colt built so few 605s. (Literally, a 'toolroom' gun.) That would not, however, stop me from building a 605 out of it. The 605 is just about perfect in every way. They look ugly to the eye at first, but once you handle one, you are amazed what a difference simply chopping 5 inches of barrel makes... VERY nice upper.
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Quoted: Proofs are not anodized over. Proofs are stamped after anodizing, and if you look very closely at them with a jewelers lupe, you can tell that the stampo is done after anodizing. The proof mark's surface looks different, in that it is shiney/glossy from where the "rough" texture of the anodizing is "smashed" flat from the punch. Imagine the anodizing being peaks and valleys (which it is) and when stamped with the proof mark stamp the peaks are flattened down. You can plainly see that IF, IF you look at them with a lupe. I have quite a few A1 upper receivers ( about a dozen or more).....most have been refinished at some point. Others, I do not know if they have been refinished or not. I do have two Colt uppers that are on what I know to be two unmolested rifles. On the one, it is evident by the naked eye that the proofs are done after anodizing. So, a better question may be.........just where did you buy these "stripped, unfired, new, un-barreled, unbuilt uppers"? If the upper receivers have the proof marks, I'd suggest that they aren't new and unused uppers......but I may be wrong, in which case some of the very knowledgable members here might chime in. Edit.....I might also add that there many Colt upper receivers in existence today that DO NOT have the proof marks. Rebuilt M16's (of whatever flavor you wish) often had replacement upper receivers. Those upper receivers DO NOT have proof marks, Why? Did someone forget to stamp them prior to anodizing? Did someone forget to stamp them after anodizing? No.......they did not get stamped because they were not built into complete rifles at Colt's facility. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I don't know why it is significant It is a very rare type of upper from early Air Force contracts, from around 1965 IIRC. Colt used A1 forgings with the forward assist boss milled off like this to complete a USAF contract that called for no forward assist, or so the story goes. They were used on early models 604 and 605. .....and it has the Colt proof marks, which means it was actually built as a complete rifle......not just a "spare" upper receiver. Proofs are not anodized over. Proofs are stamped after anodizing, and if you look very closely at them with a jewelers lupe, you can tell that the stampo is done after anodizing. The proof mark's surface looks different, in that it is shiney/glossy from where the "rough" texture of the anodizing is "smashed" flat from the punch. Imagine the anodizing being peaks and valleys (which it is) and when stamped with the proof mark stamp the peaks are flattened down. You can plainly see that IF, IF you look at them with a lupe. I have quite a few A1 upper receivers ( about a dozen or more).....most have been refinished at some point. Others, I do not know if they have been refinished or not. I do have two Colt uppers that are on what I know to be two unmolested rifles. On the one, it is evident by the naked eye that the proofs are done after anodizing. So, a better question may be.........just where did you buy these "stripped, unfired, new, un-barreled, unbuilt uppers"? If the upper receivers have the proof marks, I'd suggest that they aren't new and unused uppers......but I may be wrong, in which case some of the very knowledgable members here might chime in. Edit.....I might also add that there many Colt upper receivers in existence today that DO NOT have the proof marks. Rebuilt M16's (of whatever flavor you wish) often had replacement upper receivers. Those upper receivers DO NOT have proof marks, Why? Did someone forget to stamp them prior to anodizing? Did someone forget to stamp them after anodizing? No.......they did not get stamped because they were not built into complete rifles at Colt's facility.       4 digit SP1  |
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Can you post a close up showing the "R" and arrow? I like to see the variations and want to compare it so some of my stuff.
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Went to the local MAAC show this past weekend in Novi, scored a real beauty. Cruising the tables I noticed a lonely upper on this guy's table. 16" stainless barrel, seller says it's 300blk. Not really into that stuff, but the receiver is what really caught my eye. I knew what it was immediately, and upon closer inspection, I couldn't believe what I was holding. Had to go to the ATM to get the funds, and you bet I was damn near running!! My camera is a dinosaur, so the pics are shit, but the Colt proofs are scrisp, you can actually read the VP stamp. Few marks here and there, but still in nice, orignial condition. Not sure what I'm going to do with it yet, but as of now it is not for sale. Guy just had no clue what he had. http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae355/4mulaoneguy/Retro%20AR%20parts/100_7904_zps21629e37.jpg http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae355/4mulaoneguy/Retro%20AR%20parts/100_7905_zpsdd4285f8.jpg http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae355/4mulaoneguy/Retro%20AR%20parts/100_7908_zps62dae45b.jpg Original black lugs. http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae355/4mulaoneguy/Retro%20AR%20parts/100_7907_zpscf8e9746.jpg |
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I'll get some pics for ya.
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Can you post a close up showing the "R" and arrow? I like to see the variations and want to compare it so some of my stuff. Quoted:
Can you post a close up showing the "R" and arrow? I like to see the variations and want to compare it so some of my stuff. Quoted:
Went to the local MAAC show this past weekend in Novi, scored a real beauty. Cruising the tables I noticed a lonely upper on this guy's table. 16" stainless barrel, seller says it's 300blk. Not really into that stuff, but the receiver is what really caught my eye. I knew what it was immediately, and upon closer inspection, I couldn't believe what I was holding. Had to go to the ATM to get the funds, and you bet I was damn near running!! My camera is a dinosaur, so the pics are shit, but the Colt proofs are scrisp, you can actually read the VP stamp. Few marks here and there, but still in nice, orignial condition. Not sure what I'm going to do with it yet, but as of now it is not for sale. Guy just had no clue what he had. http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae355/4mulaoneguy/Retro%20AR%20parts/100_7904_zps21629e37.jpg http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae355/4mulaoneguy/Retro%20AR%20parts/100_7905_zpsdd4285f8.jpg http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae355/4mulaoneguy/Retro%20AR%20parts/100_7908_zps62dae45b.jpg Original black lugs. http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae355/4mulaoneguy/Retro%20AR%20parts/100_7907_zpscf8e9746.jpg |
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Quoted: Man I'm shaking like a leaf on a tree. I have wanted one for a long time. Quoted: Quoted: Thanks Hal, I've been staring at it for the last 10 minutes.  Man I'm shaking like a leaf on a tree. I have wanted one for a long time. Christmas comes early! Feel the Retro Love!
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Yes Sir...I have a few items that will definitely go back to the hive here when that day comes. Some parts I have were passed along from member to member here.
Some have M1Snipers name on them It's kinda like, I don't really own these parts....I'm just playing with them until I'm done...then they must go on to the next conservator.
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That's a better term than "junkie" or "addict"!
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...then they must go on to the next conservator. That's a better term than "junkie" or "addict"!
A sick junkie is what I felt like looking at that on the EE. Sick with RBRD. I know how Kalahnikid was feeling. I'm guilty of staring at parts with my finger on the mouse hoping someone will come along before I sell a kidney. 
My big issue is the barrel. I would really hate to cut a real deal barrel. |
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My big issue is the barrel. I would really hate to cut a real deal barrel. And that's why you have the upper and not me.
I have an MVP barrel that's not currently attached to an upper....and I was debating on if I could cut it. I just don't dont think I could do it, so I kept hesitating. 
I hope you find an MVP with a messed up muzzle that you wouldn't mind cutting down. 
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Live4nov........here are bits of info that you asked for. First is a pic from the Jul/48 American Rifleman magazine. No idea what the article was about......but did notice that you can buy that issue from various places for about 20-25 bucks. It shows a worker whos job was to stamp the Verified Proof (Vp) on 1911's. I realize those aren't M16's, so may not be valid for M16's/AR's. 1948 would have been 15 years (+ or -) the time frame that we might be interested in. Were the proof marks done the same in the 60's? I don't know.
This second pic is of an SP1 carbine that I have. I bought it from an acquaintance of mine. He bought it new in box, which I still have. Not that that has any relevance on our topic. It would appear that this particular receiver was stamped with a stamp that was at the end of it's useful lifespan. All features of the stamp appear flattened out/dull. From my experience with date stamps, as used in the industry that I am, they "dull out" over time and produce flattened features that this proof mark exhibits. This particular stamp, when viewed under magnification, shows a very distinct difference in the surface of the anodizing. It lacks any texture, compared to teh surrounding area, which leads me to believe that it was stamped post anodizing. I wish that we were privy to some individual that worked at, and was familier with operations, at the Colt facility during the early 60's through early 70's. Edit....the Vp almost missed the boat on this one. You can barely make out only one "corner" of the surrounding triangle. 
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