AR Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gas Tubes (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 8/9/2015 2:49:36 PM EDT
|
Is there any one that's better than another?
I'm getting ready to do a build (upper for the first time) and wondering if there is something that I should be looking for in a gas tube? Thanks for any help. |
|
Although an incredibly important part of a correctly functioning AR, there is little if any difference in the mass produced tubes. The majority I assume are made by a couple companies and then sold under brand names.
Installed correctly with the correct length and correct opposing parts, you will see no difference. The best of luck with your build. |
|
Quoted:
Actually heat is what causes their failure. Quoted:
Quoted:
Any stainless gas tube from a good known source will work fine. if you can afford the amount of ammo that it would take to wear one out, then you are doing better than most folks..  That is correct, and the heat comes from the.......'drum roll please'......ammo!!.... 
|
|
Quoted: That is correct, and the heat comes from the.......'drum roll please'......ammo!!.... Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Any stainless gas tube from a good known source will work fine. if you can afford the amount of ammo that it would take to wear one out, then you are doing better than most folks.. That is correct, and the heat comes from the.......'drum roll please'......ammo!!.... Unless you've got a MG or want to dump beta mags from a BumpSAW it really doesn't matter too much. |
|
Quoted:
It doesn't take much ammunition to destroy one, you just have to shoot it fast enough. Unless you've got a MG or want to dump beta mags from a BumpSAW it really doesn't matter too much. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any stainless gas tube from a good known source will work fine. if you can afford the amount of ammo that it would take to wear one out, then you are doing better than most folks.. That is correct, and the heat comes from the.......'drum roll please'......ammo!!.... Unless you've got a MG or want to dump beta mags from a BumpSAW it really doesn't matter too much. Very true, and if you can shoot enough ammo in one session to destroy a gas tube, you might as well replace the barrel right along with it... We 1,000 round torture test an AR15 SBR (short barreled rifle). Upper is an 11.5 inch manufactured by BCM with a Colt manufactured BCG. The lower is manufactured by Colt. I was lucky it did not have a major kaboom so I DO NOT recommend anyone try this. By the 24th mag the gas tube melted to the barrel. I had to manually extract rounds and charge the rifle. The hand guards were almost completely destroyed. I later found out the barrel was basically shot out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NauY3Iwb5E |
|
I had corrosion problems in a standard 304 stainless tube after a single full auto beta dump. I use more Spikes nitrided tubes now. I routinely run 750 to 1000rpm from my BumpSAW so I use a nitride tube in it. Depending on barrel profile, barrel material and gas port location you may blow a barrel or gas block before a gas tube. For instance Spikes blew a low profile gas block on their compressor during their full auto testing. Any time you start running full auto rates you will start torching barrels if you don't give them time to cool. Depending on your accuracy requirements it may not matter much. (IIRC Henderson routinely runs 80,000 rds full auto before barrel swaps - targets are about 15yds away so it doesn't matter.) With AR's you have some built in cooling time when you swap mags, which helps. |
|
I just bought a Spikes after a little research, but I also ran across this,
The cats meow? |
|
I can't justify the extra price. |
|
Pretty much this. If you want a gas tube to rule them all, this is it. The V7 EE Gas Tube is the one.  |
|
Quoted:
Pretty much this. If you want a gas tube to rule them all, this is it. The V7 EE Gas Tube is the one.
Quoted:
Pretty much this. If you want a gas tube to rule them all, this is it. The V7 EE Gas Tube is the one.
I have the v7 incolne gas tube. If your going to build an expensive gun shy not throw a few more dollars at this bad ass gas tube. Although it's not necessary to have the benefits out way the only con. The only con of course being price. |
|
Quoted:
Pretty much this. If you want a gas tube to rule them all, this is it. The V7 EE Gas Tube is the one.
Quoted:
Pretty much this. If you want a gas tube to rule them all, this is it. The V7 EE Gas Tube is the one.
I concur. Looking at it now, I am amazed at the fact that soldiers somehow made it through many campaigns over several decades without the use of these extraordinary tubes. What are the odds? |
|
Quoted:
I concur. Looking at it now, I am amazed at the fact that soldiers somehow made it through many campaigns over several decades without the use of these extraordinary tubes. What are the odds? Quoted:
Quoted:
Pretty much this. If you want a gas tube to rule them all, this is it. The V7 EE Gas Tube is the one.
I concur. Looking at it now, I am amazed at the fact that soldiers somehow made it through many campaigns over several decades without the use of these extraordinary tubes. What are the odds? They aren't running around, dumping 5 mags in full auto into anything that moves. The gas tube is not a problem on 99.99% of ars |
|
Quoted:
Actually heat is what causes their failure. Quoted:
Quoted:
Any stainless gas tube from a good known source will work fine. if you can afford the amount of ammo that it would take to wear one out, then you are doing better than most folks.. Most of the ones I have seen fail are due to incorrect adjustment/barrel nut timing during a frankenbuild causing greatly accelerated wear.. |
|
Quoted: I concur. Looking at it now, I am amazed at the fact that soldiers somehow made it through many campaigns over several decades without the use of these extraordinary tubes. What are the odds? Quoted: Quoted: Pretty much this. If you want a gas tube to rule them all, this is it. The V7 EE Gas Tube is the one. I concur. Looking at it now, I am amazed at the fact that soldiers somehow made it through many campaigns over several decades without the use of these extraordinary tubes. What are the odds? I didn't say that the plane jane gas tubes sucked. They do their job very well to this date. And they keep working regardless. If you have the money and want to purchase the best gas tube money can buy, the V7 is the way to go. Next time Mike, try saying something that will contribute to the thread instead of childish sarcasm.  |
|
Quoted:
I now use the ones from Ballistics Advantage because they are melonite coated but I highly doubt that makes them better than anyone else. I like them because the are a nice looking black color. These nitrided tubes do look nicer than the SS look especially when you have a super-duper LW handguard that lets them show. |
|
Quoted:
Why is it that the V7 will not work in a Seekins SAR or some of the Aero offerings rails ? Because it is thicker, and stiffer than a normal gas tube. There are ALWAYS unintended consequences. IN this case, it is likely that absolute perfect alignment is much more critical to prevent early failure, because the gas tube is less mobile. |
|
Quoted:
Because it is thicker, and stiffer than a normal gas tube. There are ALWAYS unintended consequences. IN this case, it is likely that absolute perfect alignment is much more critical to prevent early failure, because the gas tube is less mobile. Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is it that the V7 will not work in a Seekins SAR or some of the Aero offerings rails ? Because it is thicker, and stiffer than a normal gas tube. There are ALWAYS unintended consequences. IN this case, it is likely that absolute perfect alignment is much more critical to prevent early failure, because the gas tube is less mobile. Alignment would be perfect every time with the M4E1 uppers... the channel for the gas tube is forged with the upper receiver itself and the barrel nut doesn't require any indexing. Weird they would make it thicker. |
|
Quoted:
Alignment would be perfect every time with the M4E1 uppers... the channel for the gas tube is forged with the upper receiver itself and the barrel nut doesn't require any indexing. Weird they would make it thicker. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is it that the V7 will not work in a Seekins SAR or some of the Aero offerings rails ? Because it is thicker, and stiffer than a normal gas tube. There are ALWAYS unintended consequences. IN this case, it is likely that absolute perfect alignment is much more critical to prevent early failure, because the gas tube is less mobile. Alignment would be perfect every time with the M4E1 uppers... the channel for the gas tube is forged with the upper receiver itself and the barrel nut doesn't require any indexing. Weird they would make it thicker. Are much are we talking? .000? Could you use a reamer on the Aero M4E1?? |
|
Anything from a reputable manufacturer. No need to spend good money on Gucci products. If your gas tube went tits up, it's most likely a defect (rare), or maybe you shouldn't have use a gas tube with 20000 rounds. You have a better chance of getting an out of spec barrel, lower, or upper than a bad gas tube. |
| Originally, the gas tubes were made from Inconel 800. I am not sure when they stopped using it but probably in the 70's. They are almost indestructible. They have a slight blue tint to them. I still have a few. I use 316 stainless to make my tubes because it has a higher nickle content. Nickle is the key. Inconel is so expensive now , the cost of a tube would be around $100. It is not fun to machine either. Nitride or melonite helps with nipple wear a lot. It does nothing for melt down. Craig |
|
Quoted: Originally, the gas tubes were made from Inconel 800. I am not sure when they stopped using it but probably in the 70's. They are almost indestructible. They have a slight blue tint to them. I still have a few. I use 316 stainless to make my tubes because it has a higher nickle content. Nickle is the key. Inconel is so expensive now , the cost of a tube would be around $100. It is not fun to machine either. Nitride or melonite helps with nipple wear a lot. It does nothing for melt down. Craig Inconel tubes are $60 But then again, your barrel will wear out faster than a gas tube. Unless you're pumping out 30rnd mags one after another on full auto. I beleive the M4A1 torture test lasted about 950 rounds before catastrophic failure. |
|
Brownells has the different sized melonited tubs....they are made by Spikes! So go at them
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/gas-system-parts/gas-tubes/ar-15-m16-gas-tubes-prod44888.aspx ETA: This place has the Spikes tubes on sale... http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Spike_s_Tactical_Melonited_Black_Mil_Spec_Gas_Tube_p/sp-gastube.htm And....Primary Arms ahs some in stock. https://www.primaryarms.com/Pistol_Length_Gas_Tubes_s/7359.htm |
|
Quoted:
Brownells has the different sized melonited tubs....they are made by Spikes! So go at them
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/gas-system-parts/gas-tubes/ar-15-m16-gas-tubes-prod44888.aspx ETA: This place has the Spikes tubes on sale... http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Spike_s_Tactical_Melonited_Black_Mil_Spec_Gas_Tube_p/sp-gastube.htm And....Primary Arms ahs some in stock. https://www.primaryarms.com/Pistol_Length_Gas_Tubes_s/7359.htm The melonite coated gas tubes from Ballistics Advantage are $13.50 each if you use the 10% off code. |
|
Quoted:
These nitrided tubes do look nicer than the SS look especially when you have a super-duper LW handguard that lets them show. Quoted:
Quoted:
I now use the ones from Ballistics Advantage because they are melonite coated but I highly doubt that makes them better than anyone else. I like them because the are a nice looking black color. These nitrided tubes do look nicer than the SS look especially when you have a super-duper LW handguard that lets them show. I have only had one friend ask me where I got them from and that was because he was around when I was assembling an upper. I highly doubt anyone would ever notice but it makes me happy and I have spent a lot more on other parts just for the same reason. |
|
Quoted:
The melonite coated gas tubes from Ballistics Advantage are $13.50 each if you use the 10% off code. Quoted:
Quoted:
Brownells has the different sized melonited tubs....they are made by Spikes! So go at them
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/gas-system-parts/gas-tubes/ar-15-m16-gas-tubes-prod44888.aspx ETA: This place has the Spikes tubes on sale... http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Spike_s_Tactical_Melonited_Black_Mil_Spec_Gas_Tube_p/sp-gastube.htm And....Primary Arms ahs some in stock. https://www.primaryarms.com/Pistol_Length_Gas_Tubes_s/7359.htm The melonite coated gas tubes from Ballistics Advantage are $13.50 each if you use the 10% off code. Forgot about those....thanx.
|
|
Quoted:
Inconel tubes are $60 But then again, your barrel will wear out faster than a gas tube. Unless you're pumping out 30rnd mags one after another on full auto. I beleive the M4A1 torture test lasted about 950 rounds before catastrophic failure. Quoted:
Quoted:
Originally, the gas tubes were made from Inconel 800. I am not sure when they stopped using it but probably in the 70's. They are almost indestructible. They have a slight blue tint to them. I still have a few. I use 316 stainless to make my tubes because it has a higher nickle content. Nickle is the key. Inconel is so expensive now , the cost of a tube would be around $100. It is not fun to machine either. Nitride or melonite helps with nipple wear a lot. It does nothing for melt down. Craig Inconel tubes are $60 But then again, your barrel will wear out faster than a gas tube. Unless you're pumping out 30rnd mags one after another on full auto. I beleive the M4A1 torture test lasted about 950 rounds before catastrophic failure. I DESTROYED a Colt gas tube on my M-16A1 10.5". Smith Enterprises aluminum bolt carrier (1,400 rounds per minute) and a Beta C-Mag dump. It warped BADLY. |
|
Quoted:
I DESTROYED a Colt gas tube on my M-16A1 10.5". Smith Enterprises aluminum bolt carrier (1,400 rounds per minute) and a Beta C-Mag dump. It warped BADLY. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Originally, the gas tubes were made from Inconel 800. I am not sure when they stopped using it but probably in the 70's. They are almost indestructible. They have a slight blue tint to them. I still have a few. I use 316 stainless to make my tubes because it has a higher nickle content. Nickle is the key. Inconel is so expensive now , the cost of a tube would be around $100. It is not fun to machine either. Nitride or melonite helps with nipple wear a lot. It does nothing for melt down. Craig Inconel tubes are $60 But then again, your barrel will wear out faster than a gas tube. Unless you're pumping out 30rnd mags one after another on full auto. I beleive the M4A1 torture test lasted about 950 rounds before catastrophic failure. I DESTROYED a Colt gas tube on my M-16A1 10.5". Smith Enterprises aluminum bolt carrier (1,400 rounds per minute) and a Beta C-Mag dump. It warped BADLY. Grossly exceeding the cycle rate of 700-950 rpm will definitely cause premature failure. The max effective rate of fire is 90 rpm, sustained rate is max 15 rpm. It's like racing a car and blowing the transmission due to heat, exceed the manufacturers' recommended values and it will fail. Like dangerdan stated, it will fail at approximately 950 rounds if operated continuously at the correct cycle rate. |
|
Quoted:
Most of the ones I have seen fail are due to incorrect adjustment/barrel nut timing during a frankenbuild causing greatly accelerated wear.. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any stainless gas tube from a good known source will work fine. if you can afford the amount of ammo that it would take to wear one out, then you are doing better than most folks.. Most of the ones I have seen fail are due to incorrect adjustment/barrel nut timing during a frankenbuild causing greatly accelerated wear.. Exactly what I've seen. A common error. I make sure the gas tube does not shift at all when the BCG contacts it. |
|
I know I'm kind of late to the party, but I have that V7 gas tube.
Yeah it works great, just like any other gas tube. I don't run my gun all that hard and if I do any sort of sustained series of fire, I lay it down for a minute or two. It weighs the same as any other gas tube really, I just wanted the extra insurance of knowing that it won't have any issue. Knowing that no matter what I do with my rifle, it will still be effective out to 15 yards at 80,000 rounds will only change its purpose haha. Anyways, one thing that a lot of people forget about is that the gas block should be (I didn't say designed to be, or anything like that, this is an opinion) the weakest point of the system. Why? So that if you blow it out you save your barrel and other components from wearing out first. You can pick up a gas tube for under $10 and replace it in a few minutes. Of course, this only applies to bench rest and range toys. If your gas block breaks to protect your gun while you're trying to protect yourself, I think you may have made a mistake. So while inconel isn't indestructible (I'm a nuclear engineer, I've seen it break first hand), it is extremely resilient to high temperatures and corrosion. |
| After having used gas tubes from many reputable names, I only buy Armalite gas tubes for my future builds. Armalite tubes are so perfectly shaped that they free float into the upper receiver, which is what I prefer when assembling an upper. Adjusting the gas tube so that it does not move, or "click" when it engages with the gas key is not what I am looking for, since the bolt carrier has an good amount of play in the upper receiver before it locks up, which makes it difficult to predict how the bolt carrier behaves/where it starts engaging with the gas tube when the rifle cycles when firing. |
|
Quoted:
Originally, the gas tubes were made from Inconel 800. I am not sure when they stopped using it but probably in the 70's. They are almost indestructible. They have a slight blue tint to them. I still have a few. I use 316 stainless to make my tubes because it has a higher nickle content. Nickle is the key. Inconel is so expensive now , the cost of a tube would be around $100. It is not fun to machine either. Nitride or melonite helps with nipple wear a lot. It does nothing for melt down. Craig Interesting but not surprising, I'm sure they quit using them for cost reasons, and because they weren't really needed the way vast majority of the time. Cool someone still makes one though. Inconel is used for the pre-chambers in a lot of old IDI diesel engines because basically nothing else would hold up that wasn't crazy exotic. It's neat stuff. |
|
Quoted:
After having used gas tubes from many reputable names, I only buy Armalite gas tubes for my future builds. Armalite tubes are so perfectly shaped that they free float into the upper receiver, which is what I prefer when assembling an upper. Adjusting the gas tube so that it does not move, or "click" when it engages with the gas key is not what I am looking for, since the bolt carrier has an good amount of play in the upper receiver before it locks up, which makes it difficult to predict how the bolt carrier behaves/where it starts engaging with the gas tube when the rifle cycles when firing. Actually you can. The BC is pressed high by the spring in the mag. |
|
Quoted:
Although an incredibly important part of a correctly functioning AR, there is little if any difference in the mass produced tubes. The majority I assume are made by a couple companies and then sold under brand names. Installed correctly with the correct length and correct opposing parts, you will see no difference. The best of luck with your build. Yup. Just buy it for a dollar or whatever they are along with a china made had block for 10 bucks and vsll it a day |
|
Gas tubes are one of the most over-looked and critical components in the AR15.
They are not all made the same, and there are some important considerations with them: * RLGS is the trickiest of them all because of how easy it is to have clipping from the carrier key. * Full AUTO mag dumps one after another are not a real concern for anyone with sense. Loss of the gas tube flange where it inserts into the carrier key is. * Once you lose your seal in that location from a worn flange, the gun will start short-stroking. I've seen it happen, especially on Bushmaster RLGS guns shot in volume. * It also brings into question the material on your carrier key. Many companies use much too hard of a steel, and for a long time, many cut corners by not using a chrome lined key, which is part of the TDP. * With all these NiB coatings and QPQ tubes, you basically have a war between two very hard surfaced steel components if there is clipping there. Get your gas tube from a reputable vendor, and ensure as perfect alignment as possible. I spent well over an hour last night on one, using the stripped carrier cycling carefully into the upper to see where optimum gas tube alignment would be. Not many companies building rifles out there have that kind of time to pay someone competent to align tubes like that. |
| bought 2 melonited tubes by radical arms at primary arms and both of them after assembly would not enter the gas key,diameter of nipple to large, primary arms took care of it ,but check before you shoot it, surprised the crap out of me when the bolt couldn't move forward lucky it was a dry run |
|
Gas tubes were not originally made of Inconel. They were originally carbon steel, but changed to stainless due to corrosion.
The "stretch" of the tube steel during the pressure spike is an important function to seal the ends of the tube in the gas block as well as in the gas key. All this "high tech" gas tube BS of trying to use inconel or other materials and finishes is defeating one of the key functions of the tube. If you can't stand the bare stainless tube, someone I think does Ionbond coated tubes. I would avoid nitrided tubes (for some of the same reasons I would avoid nitrided stainless barrels) along with inconel. The AR15 IS NOT A LIGHT MACHINE GUN. If you need something to fire 1000 rounds on full auto, pick something designed for extended full-auto fire, not a lightweight rifle. The solution to gas tubes failing after ludicrous bumpfire sessions is NOT to upgrade the gas tube. |
|
There is some evidence that very early examples were not stainless, but just steel of some sort.
Very little, but see here: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=50303&s=4f00ad3c4a8a8928f250b625a148714c Highly unlikely anyone not knee deep in historic accuracy would notice such, or unless they go google around when two guys on a forum say two different things and offer no further information like just happened here...
If anyone has anything further I'd be interested in reading it, I like developmental history. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gas Tubes (Page 1 of 2)
AR Sponsor