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Posted: 6/16/2009 12:40:49 PM EDT
| I am from Ne Arkansas, and am looking for an AR rifle to carry on the tractor with me. I encounter coyotes often and they have become a nuisance, therefore I am looking for the best AR to thin the population alittle. I have done alittle research and like the Bushmaster Predator, what are your thoughts on this weapon? Secondly what options do I need to outfit this gun with? Thank You guys, I don't nkow very much about this style of weapon, and am looking to purchase within a month. |
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What draws you to the Predator?
For shooting coyotes you can easily use a shorter barrel (14.5") and be effective. Benefit would be it's lighter, easier to manage, doesn't take up a lot of tractor space. A great first AR15 is the normal 20" government profiled A3. The flat top allows optics to be mounted easily, not as long as the Predator, not as short as an M4, and it's a classic gun. With normal 55-62 grain ammo it would be very effective against a coyote. That's just me though, nothing wrong with a 24" AR15 barrel...I just dont' think you need it. |
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welcome to the site. you can't go wrong with a Bushmaster Predator. i've been on the range with several of them and when the shooter is doing his part the rifle will shoot under 3/4". i've also seen a groundhog get clipped at 400+ yards with a Predator and a 5x ACOG. (damn farm kid is one hell of a shot too) get some good glass (Leupold, Trijicon, Nikon, Burris would be a good place to start, budget depending) and a sturdy mount (...cough..LaRue..cough...) and get to whackin the 'yotes. get a bipod if you think you will use one and some kind of sling. other than that pick up some 20 round mags (better to shoot prone and off of truck hoods) and a few different brands of ammo. after you find which one your rifle likes the best buy as much of it as you can. |
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What draws you to the Predator? For shooting coyotes you can easily use a shorter barrel (14.5") and be effective. Benefit would be it's lighter, easier to manage, doesn't take up a lot of tractor space. A great first AR15 is the normal 20" government profiled A3. The flat top allows optics to be mounted easily, not as long as the Predator, not as short as an M4, and it's a classic gun. With normal 55-62 grain ammo it would be very effective against a coyote. That's just me though, nothing wrong with a 24" AR15 barrel...I just dont' think you need it. Predator is a 20" 1:8 and comes in at 8 lbs before scope. EDIT: i'm also going to guess that on the farm you have a place that you can shoot some real long distances. if so you'll like having a 20" 1:8. the heavier bullets will do better than in your typical 14.5" or 16". |
| The Predator has a 20" barrel and an A2 stock. It will be easier to jump in and out of a tractor with a 16" barrel and a carbine length stock. Personally I'd get something with a flat top upper and a fixed front sight. Iron sights are good to have and you won't see the FSB through a scope at 3x or higher magnification. |
| Thanks Guys. I really like the handguard on the Predator. I was told by bushmaster a carbine wouldnt have near the range of a predator. I beleive the varmiteer with a 24" wouldn't be very agile to me. With farm equipment you wont spook them and have to make a runnning shot. Just stop the tractor and shoot most times. The majority of my shots would be 200-500 yds. Which scopes do you recommed? Im not aware of all thats avalibel for these weapons, what is an acog? Thanks again! |
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THIS is an ACOG. kinda spendy and may not have the magnification that you are looking for. tougher than nails and as dependable as it gets.
for a 'yote gun like the predator i would look into something in the 4.5x14 range. though a 3x10 would do just fine and in most cases will cost a bit less. i don't want to put you on the spot but price is a consideration in optics. you need to take some time and look around figure out what you want, magnification wise, then decide what you have to spend on glass. in most cases you get what you pay for. having said that a *good* scope can range from $300 to $1500 depending on make, model, magnification, etc... (some go way higher on the dollar scale) i know a lot of guys that use a Nikon 4.5x14, mil dot on varmint/precision AR's. all of them are happy with the choice and none of them spent a fortune. (i'll find some pic's) i use Leupold scopes in the Mk 4 series. spendy but well worth it. what ever scope you get i would ditch the stock scope risers that come on the predator and get a LaRue mount. hell, LaRue sells scope/mount combo's to make things real easy. HERE EDIT: Nikon 4.5x14, LaRue mount, 20" Sabre 1:8 SS 
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| Thanks Armed Suspect, I was just looking at the 4.5-14X40SF Nikon Buckmaster with BDC, $309. The R15 and Predator are very close, I was told bushmaster with shoot both 5.56 .223, and that remington only recommends .223? What do yall like in magazines and stocks? I like the extendable but I am not shure if I need something like this, or if the standard stock will work? The acog is kinda spendy but would be my choice in optics at ranges of under 200 yds or so. Thnaks, |
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For the scope/mount question, see this thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=447297 |
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Thanks Armed Suspect, I was just looking at the 4.5-14X40SF Nikon Buckmaster with BDC, $309. The R15 and Predator are very close, I was told bushmaster with shoot both 5.56 .223, and that remington only recommends .223? What do yall like in magazines and stocks? I like the extendable but I am not shure if I need something like this, or if the standard stock will work? The acog is kinda spendy but would be my choice in optics at ranges of under 200 yds or so. Thnaks, if you like the camo look then get the Remington, otherwise the Predator would be my choice. as for the 5.56/.223 thing, the vast majority of rounds that you will find are .223, i'm not aware of any commercially available 5.56 varmint rounds (could be wrong). if you are going for a purpose built AR then a .223 only would be ok. if it were an all around fun gun then it might not be the best choice but for what you intend to do i think either will work. again, the Predator is what I would get. nothing wrong with having some 30 round mags on hand but again for your stated use i would get a few 20's too. i have been running Lancer L5's for a while and i really like them. for now it's only 30 round mags but they are coming out with a 20 round mag soon. i also really like the MagPul PMags. i have several of the 20's loaded with "hunting" rounds. toss some ranger base plates on them and you're set. i like the ranger plates on the 20's, it helps me dig them out of a bag or deep pocket. Brownells and C-Products also make some good mags. hell, the Bushmaster 20's have been good too. try out the standard stock for a while first. see how you like it before you go swapping parts. you may find that you like the full stock just fine and if it fits on the tractor then what's the big deal? don't spend money just to get a stock that *looks* cool. if you do have a need for a shorter stock try to link up with some of the guys in your home town forum and see if you can try some other stocks out before you buy. that's a good price on the Nikon too. for the money it's hard to beat that scope, i think you'll like it. don't cut the ACOG short. i have used it out to 700 yds before (12"x18" target). i can hit a groundhog sized steel plate at 400 all day long. the AR platform is capable of far more than most people give it credit for. |
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I'd go with a 6.8 SPC 16" middie with a 1 in 11 twist...M4 feed ramps...4 groove barrel and a SPC II chamber... put a Trijicon TR-21 1.25 X 4 Accupoint on it in a La Rue mount
some PRI mags and some Silver State Armory 90 Gr. Sierra HP. * SSA Speer 90 Gr. TNT with a muzzle velocity of 2900fps (16" barrel), will expand from 2000+ fps, which leaves a maximum performance range of 285 yards. * SSA Barnes 85 Gr. TSX with a muzzle velocity of 3150fps (16" barrel), will expand from 2100+ fps, which leaves a maximum performance range of 285 yards. *lifted from 6.8 forums ammo section |
| Thanks guys. The acog is nicefor shure, I can't quite justify a grand in scope tho, I can do too much with that many dollars over a scope. Especially with the priceof diesel and these new John Deere tractors! I'm shure I will have more questions in the future and followup with picsin the future. Sorry formy gramatical errors I hadn't got this iPhone down yet. |
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Woah, woah, woah..... Wait just one minute here... ACOGs? 6.8SPC? The guy's shooting coyotes... He's not going full on zombie attack. Let's look more into what the needs, and less into what we personally want or like. A Bushmaster rifle will serve you well for Coyote hunting. I would suggest going to a local store, and see if they have that rifle, or a similar rifle. See how it feels. You may find something else you like better. How far do you believe you will be shooting? No sense in getting a $600, or $1200 optic that is military grade, if you're just going to be shooting coyotes at a few hundred yards... An imitation scope will likely be sufficient. His life is not on the line with this... If he misses, it isn't the end of the world. It is a lot to pay $1000 extra to avoid a miss on a Coyote. You can buy a lot of cheap scopes for $1200. For magazines, a lot of stuff works. PMags are very consistent, I like those. For collapsible stocks I've used a standard M4 carbine style, and I've used the MagPul MOE. I've used the military-style A2, also. They're all fine. The standard M4 stock is kind of uncomfortable... I like the MOE a lot more. It fits me shoulder well. The rubber butt pad is nice, since it can be easily leaned in a corner without slipping, which has been a problem with a hard plastic stock in my experience. The A2 is OK... It is kind of long. To transport your rifle in your tractor, collapsible would be very convenient since you can reduce the size of the rifle. For different shooters, collapsible allows rations in stock length, so if you have a wife, children, etc. that could allow them to shoot it more comfortably. What kind of price range are you looking at? That can help us tell you what would be good for your needs. Where you can save and where to spend, etc. |
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What about a simple bolt action in .223 with a decent scope? Should do what you need and would cost less. 
Uh oh, Pigmy, now you done gone pissed off the site staff!!!!! You better run, the ban hammer is coming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 ............
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Welcome aboard Duxmen,
20'' rifle will measure about 40 inches long 16" Carbine about 36" long or 32" long with the stock collapsed. ACOG comes in different models and magnifications. Anvil tough and stays zeroed. Your grand kids will still be using it long after your done with it. |
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You know what you need for those coyotes........a RRA Coyote Rifle
or a RRA Predator pursuit I actually ended up with a RRA Varmint but it is a little heavy. |
| I am looking to spend under 2k if possible. A bolt action is ok, I am currently using an h&r single shot 25-06. These ar's are sweet, I'm looking for something fun to shoot, and .223 is pretty economical. The acog would be sweet, like you say tho If my life was in the hands of this weapon, I'd would definately be sinking some $$$ in it. I have read the most on pmags and that will be my choice in mags. If there's anything else that would help this gun please let me know. I'm thinking about buying a seperate carbine upper later. No wife or kids yet I'm a senior in hs and farm with my father! |
| Are you going to care if you can't hit them in the left eyeball at 400 yards every shot? If the only goal is that you hit them in the vitals each time, get a basic AR in carbine or rifle length with a flattop upper. Then put a 3 to 7 or higher scope on it from a reputable maker and have a Bill Springfield trigger job done. This seems to be your first AR. You will buy more and you will add/remove/replace parts as you shoot more. You will also probably beat it pretty good on the tractor. Save you cash and go basic in the begining. Like someone else said, go to the store and handle a few before you buy. |
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I agree with most of the posters on simpler is better for your application. Find a flat top, 16" or 20", either will do. Buy a decent scope, $400 range. I like Leupolds, but many here use Nikons, Burris and even the upper end Bushnells. I would recommend you mount your scope with a LaRue mount. Go to the various picture threads. You will see all kinds of set-ups. Here is the varmint picture thread, many guys post their rifles with their kill pictures: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=3&t=604524 |
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I concur with most of the posters, the Predator may be a bit long to carry in a tractor. But, if that is what you want, go for it!
Think about this though: the .223 is optimized for a 20 inch barrel length, when the whole system was designed, it was around a 20 inch barrel. You won't lose ANYTHING going to a 20 inch barrel and very little going to a 16 inch barrel. Take a look at this glass: http://swfa.com/Millett-4-16x50-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P8812.aspx I have one on a Rem 700 tactical .223 and it works VERY well, keep in mind it has a 30mm tube. I also have a Mueller Tac-II on my long range hunting rig, a Remington Sendero in 7mm Mag: http://swfa.com/Mueller-3-10x44-Tac-II-Riflescope-P9137.aspx If you are open to the thought of a bolt gun: http://www.savagearms.com/25model_LightweightVarminter.htm Howa makes an excellent varmint gun in .223 and 22-250. WW white box .223 with a 45 grain bullet is a VERY accurate load and should serve you well out to a couple of hundred yards, beyond that, you will probably need something a bit heavier, try some Prvi 69 grain match. Not the most consistent ammo out there, but certainly minute of coyote out at extended ranges. |
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Some great advice from all, here is my $.02.
Remington R-15 with 18" barrel and collapsing style stock, scoped with a 3x9, 3x12,etc ( Burris, Leupold, Bushnell Elite, Nikon, Ziess Conquest ) with ballistic plex type reticle. Mounted in a forward offset mount, and stoke it with 55 or 60 grain V-Max from Black Hills or Hornady. This should be handy in the cab and quick to get out the window, with the ability to hit at varied extended ranges. Yotes beware. |
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I don't know how much room you have in a tractor, but I'm thinking you should stick with an M4-style carbine due to their smaller size. 16" chrome-lined barrel, collapsible stock, and 20rd mags.
The hard part will be choosing an optic. The gun is capable of 0-600 yard shots, but are you? My eyes suck and a 4x ACOG on a 400 yard shot would be very iffy for me. Depending on budget and needs, I'd look at a DMS-1 (1-4x), TRS-1 (4-16x), or TRS-2 (Fixed 10). |
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If you are SERIOUS about thinning out the herd... reconsider trying to shoot them off-hand, from a tractor, at ranges beyond 200 yards. IMO, even if you are a great shooter, your more than likely going to spook them -vs- ripping the pack a new asshole. I have never hunted coyote, so I may be talking out of my ass (if so, please excuse me...), but from what I have read, I think after a few shots they may simply not show themselves to you anymore. I hear and read they are quite smart.
Why not specifically set out to hunt them say with a caller? Better yet, sponsor an ARFCOM Cotote hunt... .
Seriously, seesm to me seeing a coyote while on a tractor, stopping to get a shot, and hitting one beyond 200 to 300 yards without a good solid rest may be more difficult than expected. For better shot-to-kill ratio, set up and hunt them while not working on the tractor. Otherwise, I agree with the 16" to 18" barreled AR, tele-stock, and a nice 4x ACOG. By the way... have gun, Fox Pro caller, and will travel...  .
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My coyote rig is a 16" rifle with a free floated HBAR profiled barrel and a 1-4x scope. It is light and handy enough to take out as a walking predator rifle. It is heavy enough to be steady for my shots. I generally keep my coyote shots inside of 300 yards. It's accurate enough that longer shots would not be out of the question.
My buddy has a 16" carbine with a gov't profiled barrel and a 3-9x scope that has dropped 'yotes at 250 and 300yds. The Gov't profile barrel makes his a pure joy to carry as far as weight goes. If you've gotta keep it with you around the farm/ranch I think handiness becomes a very important consideration. Most quality AR carbines are accurate enough with a decent scope, good trigger, and ammo, that you should be well served out to 300-400 yds and in a light and compact enough package to keep in a tractor or truck during a days work. |
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Make sure its legal to have the gun on the tractor with you first before you commit to it.
In FL, I believe it is illegal to have a firearm openly carried outside the home. Even on your own property. I'm still working on figuring this one out, the legal mumbo-jumbo gets kinda thick sometimes
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Make sure its legal to have the gun on the tractor with you first before you commit to it. In FL, I believe it is illegal to have a firearm openly carried outside the home. Even on your own property. I'm still working on figuring this one out, the legal mumbo-jumbo gets kinda thick sometimes Open carry is ok on your own property or place of business here in FL, also while hunting, hiking, camping, etc... look up FSS 790. |
| get the predator. it's a very accurate gun. make fun of me if you will but you wanna know what kind of scope i'm running? ......a $70 wal-mart Center Point 4-16x40. thats right a really low cost scope on a $1500 gun. i can hit anything i aim at with that scope on it. i never even take it out to 16x. don't need to. |
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