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Posted: 10/14/2004 8:12:06 AM EDT
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I'm collecting parts to build a superlight and need opinions. I was thinking on a RRA US property marked lower and the RRA A4 flattop upper with ARMS 40l, Bushy 16" superlight barrel cut to 14.5" with a permanently attached phantom, and green funiture. I have read that the collapsable stocks actually weigh more than the stubby or entry stocks; is this correct? I have the entry stock ordered but also considered the CAR stock. What are your thoughts on the build? additions? |
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actually i think the stubby is shorter by about an inch if not more. its pretty short, kinda uncomfortable to me cause it was too short, i think if i had the 1" spacer from knights it would be perfect. with that in mind the m4 fully collapsed is perfect lop for me so i think it is safe to say that the stub stock is about an inch shorter than the collapsing stock maybe a lil more |
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A proper superlight will be larger at the tip ear the flas hhider so you cant just cut a 16" superlight. It would be better to get a 1/7 twist 14.5" M4 Bushmaster barrel and have it turned down to ultralight so you get the proper contour and 1/7 twist. If you get an iron sighted upper get an A1 upper if you are using an optic get a DrOptic in an ARMS mount. KAC makes the lightest BUIS. Dont use Colt M4 handguards. Use a carbon fiber foreend or if you want rails use a DD 7.0 foreend. |
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According to their website, the Bushmaster superlight barrel's diameter tapers from .670 inches at the chamber end to .600, then steps up to .625 at the sight base, and tapers to .570 from the sight base to the muzzle. It's not clear that there is that flare you spoke about. There is still the issue of twist rate, however. The bushmaster is a 1/9, correct?, or can I get it with a 1/7 or 1/8 in case I want to fire the heavier rounds. |
Decide for yourself: Stubby 14.6 CAR Fiberlite stock 14.6oz M4 "waffle" stock 15oz The Stubby weighs the same as the CAR stock - but you're limited to the length. The CAR is a better bet even though it's buttplate is smaller. However, I'd go with the extra 0.4 oz and get the stronger and more comfortable M4 stock (larger buttplate). |
Cav Arms Mk2 Lower is 27oz Standard Al lower + A2 pistol grip + M4 telestock = 31.3 oz The A1 & A2 pistol grips were the lightest I could find. So with the cav arms lower you save 4.3 oz over the standard telestocked lower, but you lose the ability to alter the length of pull. It's a good cal either way. Note if you want to compare apples to apples a standard lower with a Cav Arms C1 stock (A1 type) is 36.3 oz (add 5oz more for a GI A1 or A2 stock) |
Not quite - what they don't tell you is you still need a receiver extension, buffer, and buffer spring. Once you add all them up the 'ultra light 5oz stock' becomes 16.2oz (yep heavier than an M4 telestock). When comparing the weights of the stocks you have to add not only the stock portion, but the receiver extension and buffer assembly so you can compare the "Stock Systems" and make an informed choice. |
Actually I shoot 75gr Hornady outa my Bushy superlight 1/9 and it does very well.  Not sure on the exact weight, but jus adding the muzzle brake on the end changed the whole way it feels. if you jus stick with the postban Superlight barrel you cant go wrong, as far as the buttstock situation, your talking minor .oz here, most of the weight is in the barrel. Another way to jus weight (if you didnt go carbon uppers or lowers) is to swiss cheese your lower like they do on the pistols to get the weight down. |
What's that all about? Just asking a question! From the website: NEW - Bushmaster "Superlight 16" Barrel Assembly for Pre Ban Rifles (includes bayonet lug and flash suppressor) and Post Ban. Definitely the lightest 16" barrel we've ever offered - as requested by many of you. Diameter tapers from .670 inches at the chamber end to .600, then steps up to .625 at the sight base, and tapers to .570 from the sight base to the muzzle - similar to the original Vietnam era A1 barrel profile. Headspaced at the factory, this new lightweight is available as a Barrel Assembly (with all parts forward of the upper receiver) - or as "Barrel Only" with barrel nut; handguard cap and front sight. So tell me if I'm misunderstanding this. |
There is only a 'flare' for the 'Pre/No Ban' version that can take a flash supressor. The 'flare' gives the FH something to but up against. The 'Post ban' bare muzzle version does not flare - it keeps it's diameter. I've been running one of these for over a year now and its a great barrel.
My post ban superlight also fires the 77gr and 75gr OTMs just fine (sub 2 moa accuracy last time I checked). A nice benefit of firing the heavy Black Hills rounds is the flash is so low you don't really need that flash supressor (the flash is low enough it won't blind you or interfer with your sight picture at night). |
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That makes sense and was probably what Devl was alluding to. So most likely my best option would be to send a post ban 16" to ADCO, have it shortened to 14.5", add a FSB with a bayo lug and a perm. attached phanthom (that's if I wast all the evil features AND the shortest length, right?) |
Correct. I've been thinking about having mine shortened and a Phantom added. I keep flipping between zero flash and a better MV. Tough call. |
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Well there you go then! I think the costs for me would be similar between the options anyway at this point (recontouring a 14.5" M4 barrel vs adding the bayo lug and shortening a 16" pencil barrel). Decisions, decisions! Another question; I know its personal preference but would an A2 look berrer than the phantom on the tiny barrel? I know it's more than cosmetics between the two but just wondering in that I've only seen pictures of the setup; thoughts? |
You can't use an A2 on a 14.5" barrel without an SBR tax stamp. Now if you cut the barrel to 15.5" or so it would be ok. It's a matter of personal taste. Personally I prefer the Phantom - preferably the version with the sharp tines (I'm have one installed on my M4gery). |
 Unless your trying to set some kind of weight record or you have a really small build, I would go with a 6-pos tele. I don't think that a tele would weigh more than a "LE entry" stock. Besides, the LOP of the entry stock is to short without a extention as I have below. Accessories? Minimum! 
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Stickman: that is pretty much the setup I am envisioning for my RRA build only with green furniture and a 16" total length barrel. Handsome! I have a Colt 6400c with all the fixin's (ARMS 46c, 40L, aimpoint, etc), a bushmaster A2 16" HBAR, and a new Colt 6920 on the way only with a 14.5" barrel and a permanently attached vortex. The superlight (clean and simple) will be a good addition, I think. What do you guys think about the green furniture? |
Thanks, green looks ok, but it often depends on what the rest of the set up is like. I'm geting ready to do a green machine for a friend. I am debating how deep to mix the green, but the receiver and barrel will probably be mixed a deeper OD than the furniture. |
I like green - my super lightweight carbine uses green furnature. Word of warning though from Cav-Arms - some of the green furnature will weigh more than furnature of other colors. I has to do with what they use to make the green color in the plastic (some kind of metal powder is used - it's covered in an old thread in the Cav-Arms forum). Anyway Cav-Arms posted the weights of some of their items and some of the green ones were heavier (by an ounce or so). I don't know if they applies to all manufactures - or just the plastic & dye Cav-Arms uses. BTW as cool as the Green is - Coyote Brown is even better and by far my favorite. Looks 'kewler', is a more versitile color (can be used in the woodlands (summer or fall), grasslands, or desert), and stays cooler to the touch when you leave your rifle in the sun all day. |
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I wouldnt have the Superlight cut. Its difficult to do because the suplight is so thin, but can be done. Personally, I dont think its worth the money. You wont really notice the extra 1.3~ inches for a flashider, and if you do want the shortest combo possible, just take the hider off. The muzzle velocity lost by shortening the barrel is a factor, but its almost negligible for a CQB rifle as long as you dont go shorter than 14.5 The CAV reciver is the lightest set up possilbe. Unless you want a collapsible stock, I would go with it. In comparing a collapsible to a NON CAV fixed stock, the collapsible is best as long as $$ isnt the factor. Id go with the M4 or else put the big $$ up for a Crane, Magpul, or Vltor. The Bushy Carbon lowers should also be ok for a little weight reduction. Lots of people like them. Most the people who dont are judging them by what Vulcan arms (clingon for crap) makes. Personally I think they are ok by what people have said, but Im not gonna pay for one till a lot more of them are out there Stick with a flattop reciever. If Bushy will ever make the carbon fiber uppers like a standard upper, then that might be worth checking into for 2 or 3 oz savings. The standard handguards are fine for most situations. I dont think the small weight savings of a Daniels Defense is worth it over M4 handguards unless you want rails. I think regular CAR stocks weight less than both even with the steel barrel nut. SOMEONE CORRECT ME IF WRONG HERE. The DD unit is awsome for a rail set up though You could shave off 3 or 4 oz over any above handguards by getting a Clark, Hiperform fiberglass handguard. The rifle length only wieghts 6 oz. A carbine length around 4 - 5 oz. It has no rails though. If BUSHMASTER would ever start making a Chrome lined Midlength superlight.... that would be the ultimate CQB barrel....HINT HINT BUSHY REPS. |
One of my barrels is a factory 14.5 1/7 LW Colt. They are rare but they are out there. KKF charged me $50 to do the cut, crown and pin. I provided the barrel and the Vortex. The LW's have a small shoulder for the FH to stop against. When you cut the barrel you loose this shoulder. KKF made a new one and installed it when he did my barrel. You can see it in the pic below. Their is nothing to worry about with cutting a crome barrel and their is nothing added because it is a LW. KKF told me that he has done many LW's from 16 to 14.5.  Here is my rifle with the 16" barrel  And here it is with the barrel cut to 14.5. 
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That is a nice setup!; My MT6400c looks similar but still has the homely muzzle brake it came with- will keep it's length and add an A2 I think. I think I'll either keep the pencil barrel 16" with an A2 or shorten it 1" and perm. attach the A2. I only wonder if the inch is worth the $50. Why does God burdeon me with life's important decisions? |
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