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QC Doktor...soldier, scholar, funnyman, raconteur
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Edited to include David Dorbeck. Here's some more on his accomplishments:
In Memoriam; David Dorbeck |
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Originally Posted By Parliament:
So the AR10 go "bigger" when it was resurrected in the 90's. Why? Why didn't they go back to the original specs? To fit with AR15 receiver extension tubes, instead of tooling up for the original tube diameter, and new furniture. This required the tail of the bolt carrier to be reduced to AR15 diameter, so in order to maintain the AR10 mass, they extended the length of the rear of the carrier about .625", which is where the additional length comes from. We're finally getting back to the beauty of the original design, with some other work-arounds, so that we can still use AR15 dia. extensions and furniture that mates with the lower. |
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Originally Posted By motoguzzi:
Is it true that the AR10 was submitted for evaluation but it was equipped with an experimental barrel (over Stoner's objections) which failed in testing? The winner was then the M14.  Yes, ArmaLite insisted on submitting a composite barrel that had an aluminum liner over a steel bore. One of the tests the Army did was water obstruction of the bore. It failed. Army Ordnance was also determined to see their rifle win, and left the FAL/T48 in the corner of most of the testing, literally. 
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Originally Posted By 762AR556:
I still like the Armalite style mags. They are very well made. I still think more receivers should be made for this mag. I have 20 year old steel Armalite magazines that are still going strong, the only wear on them on some edges and corners from handling. |
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Originally Posted By TheHomelandSoldier:
This is great work OP. Now if someone could put together a compatability chart, we'd be golden. Can I use a DPMS barrel in a MATEN receiver set? Can I use an Armalite AR10 barrel nut on it? One has to do so much research on the .308 platform guns... It will have to be funded to do the research, and will take considerable time to get it right. Also keep in mind that several companies have variation within their own product lines, and many of the modern AR10's have gone through an evolutionary process within the brand names. |
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Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
It will have to be funded to do the research, and will take considerable time to get it right. Also keep in mind that several companies have variation within their own product lines, and many of the modern AR10's have gone through an evolutionary process within the brand names. Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By TheHomelandSoldier:
This is great work OP. Now if someone could put together a compatability chart, we'd be golden. Can I use a DPMS barrel in a MATEN receiver set? Can I use an Armalite AR10 barrel nut on it? One has to do so much research on the .308 platform guns... It will have to be funded to do the research, and will take considerable time to get it right. Also keep in mind that several companies have variation within their own product lines, and many of the modern AR10's have gone through an evolutionary process within the brand names. No doubt you'd have to pay someone to do it! The lack of standardization is a bit of a shame. However the benefit to it is that you have options I guess. Either way nice job on the OP, OP. |
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Nice job, OP.
I think we will never see true standardization in this market UNLESS something like an economic slowdown forces a good number of players out. Then maybe we would see the remainder sort of cobble together. Regardless, I was shooting my AR10 B model yesterday and still wonder why more companies don't adopt a lower that handles the best 7.62 AR mag in existence, the Gen 2 ArmaLite B steel magazine. |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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I saw so many new AR10-type rifles at SHOT, that I will have to update this thread with them.
ADM is making a really nice .308 AR. This was one of the biggest surprises of the show, and it is well executed in terms of fit, feel, component selection, and engineering. They really seem to have done a great job on them, and they also have great ambi controls that allow firing hand position bolt lock. Pictures of it are not up yet that I can see. Held the Seekins and Lancer guns. The Seekins is pretty lightweight, even with a medium contour barrel, and also has ambi controls that allow bolt lock with RH position on pistol grip. The Lancer was way heavier than I expected, but their mags are awesome, with a lot more to follow. Troy has a .308 AR now. There were a bunch of others that I couldn't check out, but way more than I knew about in advance. I looked for the Wilson Combat booth, but couldn't find it on the exhibitor listing anywhere. I was looking forward to handling those. |
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I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but you missed JD Machine Tech.
http://www.jdmachinetech.com/ |
"Ever heard of building confidence with easily achievable goals? Bet your girlfriend does it for you all the time." -Michael Branson
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Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Yes, ArmaLite insisted on submitting a composite barrel that had an aluminum liner over a steel bore. One of the tests the Army did was water obstruction of the bore. It failed. Army Ordnance was also determined to see their rifle win, and left the FAL/T48 in the corner of most of the testing, literally. http://ww3.rediscov.com/springar/full/12590-SA.A.1.jpg The composite AR-10 barrel failed during endurance testing in early 1957. Over a year later, AR-15 and Winchester LWMR barrels burst due to water obstruction. |
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I never suspected Adams Arms to be the first industry source to answer the DPMS GII with a rifle, especially one that basically mimics the GII receiver set profile. What Adams Arms did to avoid copying the dual ejector system (first introduced by LMT), was to use a kidney shaped ejector on this rifle.
The monolithic bolt carrier approach already in use by Adams Arms means they can get around being accused of copying the GII BCG, while also addressing the mechanical engineering challenge of required bolt carrier group throw in a shorter receiver set and the traditional internal gas expansion carrier key challenges posed by AR15 carrier keys, which neither the Colt 901 nor the GII use. 
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Fantastic thread with great details.
Speaking of history, Back in the 1980s, I owned several of the original AI built SUDANESE and PORTUGUESE AR10 rifles that were imported into Canada. These were available from $250 -400. I bought mine from Kingsway and Lever in Vancouver, and from OGT in Ontario. I fondly rememember competing in three gun matches with a Sudanese AR10 that I had modified into a shorty M4 type carbine, with 18.5" barrel, compensated, skeletonised butt stock, red dot mounted on the front half if the carrying handle ( milled to Weaver rail spec). I also went on a bear and moose hunt in Northern Sakatchewan with that AR 10, loaded with 200 gr Winchester Silvertip SP. Those really were "the good ol' days". But the changes in Canadian firearms laws in the early 90s that turned the inexpensive surplus battle rifles into restricted rifes ruined all that. Over the years I have met two Canadian AR10 owners who had the rare CIVILIAN/SEMI AUTO ONLY KTM Airline pilot survival model. This may have been two different rifles, or the same rifle with two different owners. These would be incredibly valuable today. As for the future, I don't know if "PROTOTYPES" and "Production Pending" qualifies for inclusion in this thread, but Alberta Tactical has obtained Canadian legal status as a NON-restricted for their AR10 like semi auto rifle called the Modern Hunter. Possibly no big deal to the Americans who enjoy unrestricted access to AR 10 rifles already, but exciting news for us Canucks. http://www.albertatacticalrifle.com/hikashop-menu-for-categories-listing/product/7040-modern-hunter |
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Originally Posted By Lazerus2000:
Fantastic thread with great details. Speaking of history, Back in the 1980s, I owned several of the original AI built SUDANESE and PORTUGUESE AR10 rifles that were imported into Canada. These were available from $250 -400. I bought mine from Kingsway and Lever in Vancouver, and from OGT in Ontario. I fondly rememember competing in three gun matches with a Sudanese AR10 that I had modified into a shorty M4 type carbine, with 18.5" barrel, compensated, skeletonised butt stock, red dot mounted on the front half if the carrying handle ( milled to Weaver rail spec). I also went on a bear and moose hunt in Northern Sakatchewan with that AR 10, loaded with 200 gr Winchester Silvertip SP. Those really were "the good ol' days". But the changes in Canadian firearms laws in the early 90s that turned the inexpensive surplus battle rifles into restricted rifes ruined all that. Over the years I have met two Canadian AR10 owners who had the rare CIVILIAN/SEMI AUTO ONLY KTM Airline pilot survival model. This may have been two different rifles, or the same rifle with two different owners. These would be incredibly valuable today. As for the future, I don't know if "PROTOTYPES" and "Production Pending" qualifies for inclusion in this thread, but Alberta Tactical has obtained Canadian legal status as a NON-restricted for their AR10 like semi auto rifle called the Modern Hunter. Possibly no big deal to the Americans who enjoy unrestricted access to AR 10 rifles already, but exciting news for us Canucks. http://www.albertatacticalrifle.com/hikashop-menu-for-categories-listing/product/7040-modern-hunter I think its always exciting to hear about other countries moving towards less restrictive firearms ownership. You think you'll pick one of these new beauties up? Also...Shooting a 3 Gun match this weekend. My first time shooting 308 in a match! Its no Sudanese AR10, but I'm excited about it. Great post. |
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Originally Posted By Lazerus2000:
Fantastic thread with great details. Speaking of history, Back in the 1980s, I owned several of the original AI built SUDANESE and PORTUGUESE AR10 rifles that were imported into Canada. These were available from $250 -400. I bought mine from Kingsway and Lever in Vancouver, and from OGT in Ontario. I fondly rememember competing in three gun matches with a Sudanese AR10 that I had modified into a shorty M4 type carbine, with 18.5" barrel, compensated, skeletonised butt stock, red dot mounted on the front half if the carrying handle ( milled to Weaver rail spec). I also went on a bear and moose hunt in Northern Sakatchewan with that AR 10, loaded with 200 gr Winchester Silvertip SP. Those really were "the good ol' days". But the changes in Canadian firearms laws in the early 90s that turned the inexpensive surplus battle rifles into restricted rifes ruined all that. Over the years I have met two Canadian AR10 owners who had the rare CIVILIAN/SEMI AUTO ONLY KTM Airline pilot survival model. This may have been two different rifles, or the same rifle with two different owners. These would be incredibly valuable today. As for the future, I don't know if "PROTOTYPES" and "Production Pending" qualifies for inclusion in this thread, but Alberta Tactical has obtained Canadian legal status as a NON-restricted for their AR10 like semi auto rifle called the Modern Hunter. Possibly no big deal to the Americans who enjoy unrestricted access to AR 10 rifles already, but exciting news for us Canucks. http://www.albertatacticalrifle.com/hikashop-menu-for-categories-listing/product/7040-modern-hunter What makes that thing NON-restricted? |
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
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Don't forget SI/ Falkor Defense. |
Tired of smoking or chewing? Ask me about vaping.
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Originally Posted By LRRPF52: Daniel Defense DD5V1 7.62 NATO Carbine Recoil Web Review  http://youtu.be/dm11OTe1L5s |
Tired of smoking or chewing? Ask me about vaping.
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Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Collector's Grade Publication Series History of the AR10 http://www.collectorgrade.com/images/AR-10sm.jpg hmmm wife just asked what i want for my birthday next month 
love those books |
NRA Life Member
USPSA-IPSC
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
USPSA-IPSC
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin
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Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
POF Revolution http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/POF-USA_Revolution_Small-Frame_7.62mm_NATO_7.62x51mm_NATO_.308_Win._Tactical_Piston_AR_Carbine_SBR_Short_Barreled_Rifle_at_SHOT_Show_2016_Photo_by_David_Crane_DefenseReview.com_DR_9.jpg Please keep this thread free of random comments so we can have just the documentary nature of it. Just read about this one the other day. Not a good article, more of a sales pitch than anything. No good info besides saying is the "lightest 308 on the market". Would like to see a better break down of it. Linda interesting, wondering is its just another copy of the GII or what. I do like seeing more of these smaller platforms coming out. Hopefully a parts boom is right around the corner, then just waiting another 1.5-3 years for the aftermarket to work out the shitty QC issues and what not, then we can build some! I want armalite to jump on the wagon. If they do, I'm sold. |
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Once upon a time Aero Precision produced a number of close AR-10B lowers to build rifles specifically not named on the California Attorney General's banned assault rifles list.
Armalite produced a number of complete Aero Precision AR-10T rifles to help out the Left Coast bubbas. 
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New Savage MSR series. They're using a small frame AR10 variant with initial offerings in .308 Win. and 6.5 Creedmoor.
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AR15/AR10 student since 1980s
Co-author of 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks Vol I & II
NRA Certified Instructor: Basic, Pistol, Rifle, RSO, Shotgun
Co-author of 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks Vol I & II
NRA Certified Instructor: Basic, Pistol, Rifle, RSO, Shotgun
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Hopefully, PSA will pull the GII from the ashes. I have a customized GII and a Rogue and they both work fine. I wish POF, and more companies for that matter, would incorporate sinusoidal bolt lug design to further increase strength and durability. An Aermet bolt with sinusoidal lugs should be a real winner! |
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Originally Posted By Parliament: So the AR10 go "bigger" when it was resurrected in the 90's. Why? Why didn't they go back to the original specs? 1994 Klinton Crime Bill reduced newly manufactured mag capacity to 10 rds. Existing fleet of original pattern AR-10 waffle mags was minimal. It was decided to use a design that used modded M14 mag shells. |
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Attached File I wish I could still buy these. |
I killed a bacon puppy. :(
This post is brought to you by The Pogues, the official punk band of the .mil forums.
This post is brought to you by The Pogues, the official punk band of the .mil forums.
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Originally Posted By xlr8shn: So the AR10 go "bigger" when it was resurrected in the 90's. Why? Why didn't they go back to the original specs? There are several good Youtube videos on the AR10's history, and the evolution of the design. There was no single original pattern; it kept getting beefed up with over time to increase durability. |
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