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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Home Defense Question (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 7/13/2005 10:26:53 AM EDT
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I have a 1911 and a new AR-10. I am still in college and have my bro as my roommate. 2 Bd appartment. He knows not to mess with my guns. So the question is, do I keep the AR-10 or 1911 ready for defense? I keep the 1911 in a lockbox to protect it and keep others from touching it. I use to keep a sniper on the top of my bed, but I am thinking about putting my AR up there and hiding a mag somewhere else. I think the AR would be faster to get into action. Here is what I am really thinking. Placing AR in corner or on bed, hiding mag close by, but not with rifle. Only downside to this, someone breaks in when im not home, AR will be gone. AR will get dusty on bed too....  Any suggestions? Like the closet maybe? P.S. I keep a flashlight with my defense weapon. |
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The more I think about it, I think your right. I will keep the AR in the closet out of sight, but not in a case so it doesnt corrode. In the dark, it would be easier to hold a flashlight and handgun verse a flashlight and rifle. I keep my gun cabinet and all my other rifles at my parents house. |
I open my safe with a key on my car key chain. |
Guess what? A 1911 will go through several walls, no problem. Now a .308 may go a bit further... Always go for a long gun if it is handy. But, seriously, do you leave your weapons unsecure? And .308 is overkill for "home defense" unless your expecting some serious home invasion. Get a Mossberg 500. Keep it locked up except at night. Failing that, the 1911 is plenty to have next to your bed. ETA: A gun locker at minimum is a must. Go to Wally World, get a long gun locker for 150 bucks. |
+1 You can trust your bro but you can't trust his friends. Get a safe. Shok |
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If you're really interested in home defense, nothing beats a good pump-action shotgun with a tactical light foregrip (in fact, any weapon you plan on using for home defense should have a weapon-mounted light) and loaded with 00 Buck. It's got the power to put someone down at close range (which is your scenerio) but won't go through a lot of walls, and doesn't require you to be 100% sharp to aim and hit accurately (if you're roused in the middle of the night, even with the adrenelin, you're not likely to be fully awake). A shotgun's large diameter barrel is a very intimidating site when it's pointed at you, however with a proper tactical light, chances are the intruder wouldn't be able to see it anyway. Also, the sound of the pump-action on the other side of a door is generally enough to get most people to think twice about entering, and with 7 shells, you will have more than enough ammo. Someone breaking into your house is there for the opportunity and it's highly unlikely he/she will stick around for a prolonged firefight. Besides, if worse goes to worst, you still have your 1911. I recommend an FN Tactical, Mossberg, Benelli M4 Super 90, or a Remington 870. Make sure its got the light and a shorter barrel for close encounters! |
Some of you missed the fact that I HAVE A SAFE.
Lockbox= fireproof gun safe made by sentry. The point was, if im sleeping and my door gets kicked in, do you really think I will be able to locate my keys, open my safe and get my handgun/flashlight out faster than slapping a mag in my AR. That was pretty much the question. My AR wont fit in my gun safe, and I have enough shit to move to and from school so im not bringing one. I am able to lock my door and keep ppl (like my bros freinds) out when im not there. I will keep the ammo for the AR in the handgun safe if im not going to use it for defense. |
Noyce, so where do i get one of these?? 
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I have put alot of thought about this same question in the past, and have consistantly came up with the best home defense combination is to keep a .45 close by the bedstand...they even have those finger combination gun safes that you can bolt to your wall next to your bed...with a flashlight next to it. Then keep a Pump shotgun close by in a gunsafe, loaded. If you hear something in the night that alarms you, the handgun is easy to get to quickly, and easy to bring to bear...not the best thing to fire inside if you don't want collateral damage, but it would save your life at the very least. You also have a light to identify any targets you might encounter while quietly getting out your shotgun(shotgun pellets don't go through as many walls as a .45 slug)...it's already loaded, so all you would have to do is take the safety off, and you're ready(no noise). Personally I don't go to these extremes, but if I lived in a crappy neighborhood, I probably would...I just keep a .38 in the bedstand with a quick loader. PS: it might be a good idea for you to take a concealed weapons class...even if you don't get the pernit, it would give you alot of self defense knowledge...perhaps the local gun club might offer some self defense classes as-well. Good-Luck.
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A BIG + 1! Get a safe with a single lock, and when your home, just put your keys in the lock and give it a 1/2 turn. Something bad develops, your tools are a half turn away. If nothing goes bump in the night, you'll know where your keys are in the morning. Tex78 |
+1 I love a pistol for "bump in the night" type stuff...YMMV, but when I'm groggy it's easier for me to go for the pistol than any long gun. And just for fun I'll mention that the G19 just replaced my BHP in that role...a G17 magazine and an M3 illuminator + 18 rounds of RA9TA is a combo that makes me feel all goose-pimply... |
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+1 more for pistol (if you can use it). Get a set of tritium sights, and if you can see your target (few houses are so dark you can't see something - but you need to make sure you know who you're aiming at), you can hit it. Misses using handguns, at night, by people who know how to shoot, are usually due to not being able to tell exactly where your muzzle is pointing. The tritium sites will solve that problem, and you won't need to give away the huge tactical advantage of remaining hidden. And, you have a choice of ammo ... several are frangible enough that they won't go through several walls. And, finally ... get yourself a ccw and take the pistol with you, while locking the shotgun up. If necessary due to your job or school, lock it in the trunk. In my experience, you won't be able to carry a concealed weapon inside a University campus building, but most times it can be locked in the trunk, "in any place suitable for parking a vehicle" ... at least that's the way the law reads at a local university. Note this is likely NOT the case at elementary schools. You should check local laws first. For what it's worth ... good luck, Tony |
Good grief For home defense, my opinion is that nothing beats a short-barreled AR, with a 30-round mag and a light mounted. |
| I suggest you buy a cheap Gun safe, I picked one up at Dick's sporting goods for $90. Take out the gun you want to use at night, when you wake up in the morning and your ready to leave secure what your not going to use in the safe. The only thing worse than not being prepared is allowing someone to get ahold of your own shit! Be sure set it up the night gun exactly how you want it and practice for different scenarios. This is what I do..... |
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Interesting. Some would worry about the clunking sound of pump action shotgun may give out his/her position, but not worry about shining a flashlight. The best home defense is called "run your ass off"; the second is a pump action shot gun like Remington 870P. Keep it loaded, along or under the bed. The best strategy is not buying big guns. Actually, I would suggest most people to reverse their doors. The way our doors are design to open towards inside which allows BG to kick the door open. If your reverse it, it would take them a hell of effort to knock it down while allowing you a quick exit if the danger is coming from your window. For those who have faced strangers at home multiple times, you need to MOVE. |
I don't think it is "worry" - I think it is a reaction to the ridiculous assumption that a home invader would shit his pants and run away at a mechanical sound. Great if it works - not so great if rounds come flying through your drywall at the source of your sound that you deliberate made to identify your position. Once you are prowling through your house with a loaded shotgun, you should be prepared to incapacite an intruder (if you are not prepared - like you said, then running away like a frightened japanese schoolgirl might be a better choice). If in a potential fight that your life may depend on, deliberately advertising your position to a potentially armed adversary is not generally something that professionals would advertise. (At least in the army, I don't recall shouting out warning or racking weapons loudly before entering a room/building/bunker). btw- the light is necessary to make sure you are shooting/killing the person you THINK you are shooting/killing, and not the neighbor's sleepwalking daughter. Also, the blinding effect can be quite an advantage (which is why a pressure switch is good).
Could you please explain to me how a shotgun with 7-8 rounds is a superior weapon for incapacitating a human than a short-barelled AR with 30 rounds? I'd seriously like to hear that explanation.
Good advice. If I thought for even a second that there way any significant chance of a home intruder where I lived, I would move. |
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lovetheBlade, think yourself as a intruder. If you see someone flashing a light at you, wouldn't you start shooting AT the light? I would definately move and shoot at the source of the light. Statistically, it has been proven that shotgun is the kind of home defense with 80+% hit rate. How many intruders would you think you may face? 10? Maybe the statistics did not count that not many people have loaded AR at home. Again, our objective in home defense must NOT be "defense" - fight off the bad guys. Our objective is to survive. Weapons must be used to ensure our survival, hence use them to ensure our ways of escape, not clearing your own house etc. Anybody who thinks "oh, i am the protector of the house and need to stand my ground" is depleting him/herself in the gene pool. Again, statistics has shown that too often the protector of the house is bravely getting shot to death. An escape mentality and plan, good home security system and motion detectors beat everything else. |
Difference is, if you are an armed intruder, and you are IN my light, then rounds are only split seconds behind that light! Good luck shooting at my light when you're at the unhappy end of an AR. By your logic, an intruder would also open fire at the sound of a shotgun racking - the only difference being that in that scenario, the intruder knows roughly where you are, but you have no idea where the intruder is. Seems to me that the weapon-mounted light is a clear advantage.
Sounds like a bogus statistic to me - since (like you suggest) it almost certainly doesn't control for the relative baserate/prevalence of shotguns vs. rifles. I imagine that MANY people use shotguns for home defense, and very few use ARs. In addition, a huge number of idiots have a completely ridiculoulsy warped idea of the effectiveness of a shotgun - not realizing just how LITTLE buckshot spreads. At interior ranges, a shotgun practically requires as much accuracy to shoot as a rifle, but a short AR is actually easier to manoever.
I disagree with your premise. The objective in home defense is home defense, not running away. I KNOW the interior of my house, and if I am at the top of my staircase, I am in control. The second I turn tail and run, I might turn my back on armed intruders, I might run into other intruders outside the house, etc - staying in the house, in a place with good visibility is remaining IN control, running away is NOT remaining in control. Just my opinion - but if an armed intruder is going to break into my house, I think that "home defense" is a better strategy (survival-wise) than "run away" - by the very fact of running away you are making yourself a victim in the situation. I choose to not turn myself into a victim. To each his own. If you choice is to run away in the face of a threat, more power to you. |
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I agree with both camps on lights. Identifies the target and also give them something to aim at. I think a flash light is too revealing in a sense, clearly giving away your location and what direction your walking in. I usually keep low level lights on throughout the house. I think both sides are right, so the best solution is to buy Night vision goggles  My AR stays locked away My 1911 sits on my scriptures next to my bed Cocked and locked, I dont have kids and my GF knows the drill when she sleeps over. A gun in a safe will do a person no good if the attack is sudden and swift, if you even had 3 seconds to spare I would consider that lucky |
I don't know if you currently live at the North Pole, but in Missouri it gets DARK at night. I might see movement, or a shadow that I suspect is an armed intruder, but I will need to light it up first before pulling the trigger. It called responsiblity - to not shoot something unless you are sure of your target. (LIke I said above, it could be some retarded kid, or the neihgbor's daughter who is sleepwalking or a suprise tenure party for me, or whatever). You also don't seem to be quite aware of how BRIGHT tactical lights really are (perhaps you are - my apologies in that case, but your comments suggest that you are not). A good "tactical" light is extremely bright. I woudl call it "blinding" - you can be waiting (at the top of the stairs, or whatever) in the dark, and then light up the intruder when they are in front of you. In most cases, the sudden and blinding light is going to be very surprising and disorienting to an intruder, not something that a criminal woudl likely immediately react with gunfire to. Plus, the second you shine the light on someone, and they are blinded, your finger is hopefully right by your trigger (and the rifle is already pointed at the intruder, since the light is mounted on a rail). Who do you really think would react faster in that hypothetical scenario? The guy who just deliberately shone a bright light on his target, with rifle aimed and ready to fire - or the surprised and blinded intruder, who dies not have his firearm aimed, and can't tell exactly where the target is? It MIGHT put me at a small disadvantage over a criminal, but that's the difference between being a good guy and a bad guy. It's also VERY prudent from a liability viewpoint. Despite this long diatribe - I don't really spend a lot of time thinking about this crap. In my neighborhood, I think it is about as likely as Elizabeth Hurley stopping by with a wheelbarrow of cocaine - BUT I have no doubt whatsoever, that an SBR AR is a FAR superior home defense weapon, compared to the mythical shotgun. |
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I know this has been discussed ad nausium but here goes. First, DK is right on, the correct use of a high power light is a clear advantage. What do you think most people's reaction to 120 or greater lumens of blinding white light is? The light is a weapon in itself. The light should then immediately be followed by several rounds of ammo (while the bg is still realing from the light) or should be promptly turned off and you should immediately move to another postition (if the shot is not clear or the suspect is not a threat). And to reiterate again, a rifle is always the most effective tool for a gunfight. An AR with the proper ammunition will be much more effective than any handgun or shotgun and will have about the same if not a little less wall penetration. And if you really want to scare them away, the cycling of an AR action is very scary  .
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I think this falls into the "you do your thing, I'll do mine" category.  No skin off my back when some guy gets killed because he thinks its a grand idea to rack his shotgun to scare off an armed intruder, or believes that he'll hit something with a shotgun if he just fires it in the general direction of an opponent, or doesn't understand the advantages (both tactical and legal) of having a weapon-mounted light. (not all of these are directed specifically at you, papertiger - but at some of the other nonsense in this thread) From everything I've learned on ARFCOM over the past many years (from the many professionals on here), and from my own military and continuing shooting experience, I'll once again say it - there is NO DOUBT in my mind that a short AR with 30 round mags and a rail-mounted light is FAR superior to a shotgun for home defense. Both might work fine in most scenarios, but if you are talking about which is superior, the short AR wins hands down. Heck, I'd take a high capacity handgun with a mounted light over a shotgun - but the handgun would primarily be a means to get to my rifle. Either way - you do your thing, and I'll do mine. I'm only responsible for my own safety, and don't particularly care if other people get themselves killed, or accidentally kill their neighbor's dog or something. |
Reeling? Unless it is a phased plasma rifle in 40 watt range I wouldnt bet my life on anyone reeling from some light |
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AR-10 fired rapidly indoors would DEFINITLY blow out some eardrums i second the notion to lock up the AR-10 in your closet w/ mags to go ready w/ it i would keep the 1911 (w/ back-up mags) ready to go by your bed side (if not locked, then hidden, but readily accessable)--either fight to your rifle/engage close in intruders, or get another, more CQB suited rifle to go (short AR (5.56), shotgun, etc w/ tac light)--cant have too many ARs  your AR will get dusty--no problem you could also keep the AR by your bed and lock it up when you leave......... |
| I believe it is a man's duty to defend first and foremost his family with all means necessary. For me ,my go to weapon is a M4 type weapon with 30 round magazine. I will stand my ground, and I have the mind set that if someone does break in, they will soon know what fear is themselves, and know what a big mistake they have made. I do not take this lightly, but think about it, the common thug who does home invasions are not trained with firearms, and certainly do not have any tactical training. You have to have the right mindset for this, confront the intruder with your chosen weapon, and most of them would run like the cowards they are, if not ,fire center mass. |
Ok, DK, I'm on your side. Between the "racking the slide" and "not aiming" crew, this is a real informative thread. I guess "spraying" buckshot at "bumps in the night" is a real good defensive tactic, if you don't mind hitting the cat, the dog, your daughter, the neighbor, and your chinese vase. Here is what I say to lights. They are useful for all the reasons DK mentioned, but foremost is target ID. Go read up on some of those guys that have shot their own families by accident (this is not a Brady statisitic, it happens to morons that shoot in the dark. I will not engage anyone unless I confirm they are hostile. Anyway, better to have and not need than to need and not have. Those who say "why the long gun, a pistol is more handy." Frankly, you are morons. Who has an advantage in a fight? Guy with the AR or the guy with a .45 pistol? Don't even bother trying to answer, because it is fairly obvious. And yes, I have trained extensively in urban combat. |
I have a CCW |
When is there ever perfect light, how do you ensure getting it when you go in, what night vision do cops use and just who prefers night vision over white light, again? |
Me too... 
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I keep my ARs locked in a safe. Got a Mossberg 500 with pistol grip and sidesaddle(and soon to have a tac light) with 00 buck in between my bed and night stand, right above my head, my glock 23 between the mattress and wall next to it and my glock 27 in the other room near my computer. I keep all three loaded and hot. Told the GF if she ever needs to pull out the shotgun she can either blast away or cycle through a round so the bad guy knows he's gonna be in some pain if he doesnt leave. ETA I live in a small apartment with thin walls. I have a very good chance hitting whatever comes through the door with my shotgun without even aiming it. I've played around at the range and have the spread pattern and distance to the target pretty much figured out. For my situation (living the the GF who isnt the best shot in the world, size and layout of the apartment) the shotgun makes more sense to me for a defensive weapon. |
If you reverse an outside door, the hinge pins are on the outside, genius. |
I missed this one. You are wrong. Obviously hollywood tactics leave a lot to be desired, but lights have their uses.
Ok, that's just dumb. Define perfect light. And please tell me that you are not former Infantry. Perfect light would be an open field, full moon overhead, and no clouds (100% illumination). You can see up to 300-500m with NVGs on fairly well. But you are hardly invisible. But... Guess what? Doctrinely, the best time to attack is actually in SHITTY weather and conditions. It masks your approach. It makes static defenders miserable. You have the element of surprise. Depending on the situation, a commander may choose to attack when the light conditions are low, not perfect. Still in the military frame of mind, base on your comments. What do you do when you enter a bunker with NO light? Clue here. NVGs don't work without any light. What about inside a building? How do you seach EPWs on the objective? Lights are a calculated tactical risk, but very handy sometimes. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Home Defense Question (Page 1 of 3)
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