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Posted: 9/28/2007 6:10:52 PM EDT
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Hello All; I realize this topic has been addressed, but I wanted to bring it up again and see what I could find. The question: why can't OTM bullets (specifically the 6.8 spc 115 gn SMK) be used for hunting large game (ie: deer). I have heard both sides, but I have yet to see any definative information from an expert that tells me that it is not a good thing to do (please forgive me if I have missed some obvious information sources). I, personally, think a 115 gn SMK bullet will be a good game bullet. Why? There exists substantial data showing that this bullet performs very well in ballistic gelatin (BG). If there is a good correlation between BG performance and tissue damage, (and I believe that there is) then it should be great for hunting. For those who say that these fragmenting bullets don't have enough penetration, I say: these bullets are deemed good enough for use in combat, so they must perform well enough against a ~100 kg animal. For those who say a fragmenting bullet will ruin too much meat, I say: put it in the right spot and there will be minimal meat damage. In addition, while there may not be a good correlation to the 6.8 spc bullet I mentioned, the Berger website acutally promotes the use of their VLD match OTM bullets for hunting. So...I want to hear from you people in-the-know. Present your argument whether or not 6.8 OTM bullets (the 115 gn SMK, specifically) that have demonstrated good BG terminal ballistics can be used for hunting large game (deer, for example). Yes? No? Why or Why not? |
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No. SMK bullets yaw, then tumble upon impact usually causing the bullet to fragment. That's not ideal hunting bullet performance. Those bullets don't have the sectional density to break or penetrate heavy animal bones, and their jacket construction is too thin and unsuited for even deer IMO For the same price or less you can have a bullet that was engineered and designed for hunting game animals from the same manufacturer [except Berger] Why risk losing game by using a match bullet when a proper hunting bullet is readily available in the same caliber...?? |
| The military prefers to wound the enemy instead of kill them. It ties up more people to tend to the wounded versus leaving the dead where they lay. In my opinion the deer is a hardier creature than a man is. How many humans have you heard of that run for 25+ yards after getting hit in both lungs with a 270? What works for a man won't always work on animals. However, if you have good shot placement, preferably a nice broadside shot to the heart-lung area it would very likely do the trick. If you try to take a quartering shot, you will not have enough penetration and weight retention of the bullet. You will probably have a wounded animal get away. |
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These rounds are called open tip, rather then hollow point. A hollow point is designed to mushroom and expend more energy in a larger diameter wound cavity. There is a lot of work done on the design of these bullets to consistently perform to the desired standards. An open tip is open in the front rather then the back for filling the jacket with lead. By having a small fill hole in the front it is a much more consistent and stable bullet. There is no provision for it to do anything special upon impact. We have heard of yaw and fragmentation repeatedly. that is the back being heavier then the front and wanting to come around and take the lead (thats lead, like leader). as it comes sideways the bullet breaks at the cannelure then into several pieces. This was not intentional in the original design. It just happened. So fragmentation can drop the animal, it can also cause a gross mess when you dress it out. A hunting rounds is best for hunting. |
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I use 69gr SMK for target shooting but for hunting there are too many much better alternatives. I cant even find a single good reason for using the SMK as a hunting round instead of a round designed for that purpose except for the precision that is a little bit better if only headshots are used. The SMK is a non-bonded, thin jacket round that fragments and destroys more meat than necessary. I would not see penetration as a really big problem with the SMK for small deers etc but for everything else than clean headshots i would choose something better for hunting. |
first line crossed out since it maybe a tatical idea to wound first, but no one in combat is going to aim to hurt...LOL and it has nothing to do with this OP second line is crossed out since it will not work...the ribs will stop the round from even getting to the organs...thats the point. |
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Go the lnk below to see the results of SSA'S OTM 115 grain on Caribou. Longest shot 158 yards one shot - one kill on three caribou. These are the rounds designed for the military & LE that were given very high marks in recent test by the government. Art - SSA http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=121&t=343917 |
Repeating BS like this wont help with your credibility around here. Try not to repeat internet rumor mill crap like this in the future. Thank you. |
Agreed. Clearly a lot of morons in circulation these days. I am curious though . . . what is the military's "official" opinion on the terminal ballistics of the 77 grain SMK? Do they simply desire a high ballistic coefficient regardless of terminal performance? I wonder if a 77 grain FMJ would of have been chosen had it been proven more accurate |
As Art from SSA pointed out, the SSA 115 Gr. SMK will easily kill a 400Lb. animal, but there are also many other otions like the SSA 110 Gr. Pro-Hunters and SSA 110 Gr. Barnes TrippleX ammo that ws designed for hunting. Either one of those hunting bullets will take out most game with one shot. I wouldn't hunt with the SSA 115 Gr. SMK because I don't want to destroy the meat. |
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OTM and FMJ bullets are illegal for hunting because people can't shoot. Rather than place the emphasis on shot placement, various state wild life agencies resign themselves to the hope that if they mandate the type of bullet hunters have to use (expanding) then hopefully a sh!tty hit will still cause enough damage to kill the animal. Basically these laws have been enacted for the kind of people that insist you have to have at least a .300 win mag to kill an elk, never mind our parents, grand parents, and great grand parents have been taking such large game with 30-30's for about as long as the round has been available. On his death bed my grandfather told me the secret.............don't shoot unless you know you can hit something vital.he BTP Disclaimer: I'm not trying to cause a fuss! |
Just a note about discussing issues with friends in Arfcom..... Wayniac is not a "moron", he is simply misinformed. That old (and wrong) rumor is passed around so much that we can hardly blame someone for repeating it. If someone makes a statement that is factually wrong, just educate them. No need for insulting names. Thanks. 
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R_C is correct. I once called the Technical line at Serria Bullets to discuss this issue with them. I had a great load worked up for my .308 using some MatchKing bullets. I wanted to use it for hunting because it was so accurate. The technician warned me that the MatchKing was not designed for hunting. He said "it might work fine", but why use a bullet designed for targets when another bullet was available that would give almost the same accuracy and was designed for hunting. I loaded up some .308 GameKings and never looked back. The Gamekings performed perfectly. No deer ever complained.  |
I think I stated that ALREA DY
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LoL Thanks, Ol' Painless This type of thread pops its ugly head up about once a month like the birdshot vs buckshot threads; and the folks that insist on using birdshot/match bullets for what they weren't intended for... Some folks just want to roll the dice when it comes to optimum ammunition performance - just don't insist that i make the same mistake |
I remember once reading a test where they took some soft point bullets, deformed them in various ways, and shot for groups. Bottom line: It made very little difference in accuracy. I believe this concern is highly over-rated. |
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