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Posted: 1/7/2013 3:41:47 PM EDT
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I need help identifying a recent pick up.
Any and all information you can give me would be amazing. It's a NoDak Spud NDS-601 Lower. The only marking is what looks to me to be a Delta between the lugs of the front sight. The bolt carrier has a D. The bolt itself looks to be chrome with MP combined, which I'm assuming to be magnetic particle tested. |
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I need help identifying a recent pick up. Any and all information you can give me would be amazing. It's a NoDak Spud NDS-601 Lower. The only marking is what looks to me to be a Delta between the lugs of the front sight. The bolt carrier has a D. The bolt itself looks to be chrome with MP combined, which I'm assuming to be magnetic particle tested. that would be the VP mark. later ones had a M or W and a 12 near the muzzle. post some pics. be interested in seeing if it's the cast or forged front sight on that one. early 
later 
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Does this do anything for ya? http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb306/jahdofresh/photo_zps19154831.jpg looks like you got an early 601 barrel. that's a cast front sight base and VP markings. |
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The Bolt is DPMS bolt I'll have to disagree with you Hal - without seeing pics, I would say the carrier is DPMS. but I don't believe they magnetic particle test their bolts. Good chance the bolt itself is Colt - notice I said WITHOUT PICS ?  Hint, hint.That's what i'm thinking too Morg, I've got the colt chrome bolt but the M & P are not combined. 
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Shark16's pic is what a Colt bolt looks like. OP - your bolt is likely a Smith or maybe an RRA - but not a Colt. See those angled 'cuts' behind the lugs of shark16's bolt? That's something only Colt does. When this mess settles down I'd keep your eyes open for a different carrier - I don't trust DPMS personally, but I'd keep that bolt. If it's MP tested it's GTG.
Oh, and it's interesting that it's using an old-style FP retainer. I would consider at least having a new style spare for it. (current cotter pin style) They were known to break. I'm not replacing the one on my original XM16E1 BCG, for obvious reasons, but the newer retaining pin is an improvement. |
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And about the pin, so basically since it isn't the "original" BCG, swapping the pin style wouldn't make a big difference?
D marked carrier should be DPMS. MP chrome bolt may be a Delton definately not Colt chrome. Never seen a chrome RRA with any stampings (possibly current production but they have been out of them for 6 months) and Smith Enterprises should have a SE on it. I'm gonna say the FP retainer is current production and they are of better quality than the Colt originals IMO or say haven't been through as many hands. Hard to make a comparrison as originals are almost 50 yrs old and very rare in pristine condition. I've yet to have a problem with one of the current production machined retainers and don't think I've ever personally had an original Colt machined retainer that one of the ears wasn't broken off. Main reason I had a few as they were free and were considered yesterdays trash / todays gold. The cotter pins are cheap enough and last for a while. I usually change the cotter pins every 2-4K depending on actual unit. Some wear better than others. I have over 5K on a modern milled chrome unit that shows no wear. Still very tight and it's hard. FP wear is another story but they will wear with either piece. Both should work fine. I have both style spares in my shooter's bag. On the barrel I would like to see a few different pics as stated above. Nice score regardless in todays hunt for retro. |
Check the gas key on the carrier for concentricity. (look at it from the end) I've had two 'D' marked carriers and BOTH of them had out of round gas keys (material thinner on one side of the hole than the other.  ) Some people say DPMS is fine - I prefer to use stuff I trust. The bolt is very nice however. I'm sure the retainer should work fine for awhile, but having a spare is never a bad idea. My milled retainer BTW is original.  I'm thinking of pulling it out of the BCG and seeing if I can get $12K for it on GB - or maybe I can just trade it for a Class III weapon.  It's getting weird out there.
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| looks like an arsenal refinished 604 upper w/ an early M VP 12 barrel w/ cast FSB (found on 602 and early 605/604/xm16e1). has the later gas tube, early no drainhole handguards, mottled type d stock. bolt carrier group may have the enlarged firing pin retaining hole meaning it's an early xm16e1 bolt carrier. can't tell for sure from the pics. also can't tell if the upper is square or round forged. |
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looks like an arsenal refinished 604 upper w/ an early M VP 12 barrel w/ cast FSB (found on 602 and early 605/604/xm16e1). has the later gas tube, early no drainhole handguards, mottled type d stock. bolt carrier group may have the enlarged firing pin retaining hole meaning it's an early xm16e1 bolt carrier. can't tell for sure from the pics. also can't tell if the upper is square or round forged. We've ID'd the BCG. Looks like a very decent rifle - have you shot it yet? |
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I'll have to disagree with you Hal - without seeing pics, I would say the carrier is DPMS. but I don't believe they magnetic particle test their bolts. Good chance the bolt itself is Colt - notice I said WITHOUT PICS ? Hint, hint. I knew someone would catch that right after I posted it.
I meant the carrier...since it had the "D" on it. |
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Nice 604 build and gathering of a couple hard to find parts. To put the obvious missing correct parts in it could easily cost what you have in it today with assualt rifle conflict and retro parts madness.
Appraisal right now is gonna be tough no matter where you post it. With the coming ban excitement people are paying way more than true value will probably ever be. The barrel and the FSB are the only real value I'm seeing. Not having correct gas tube which is rather rare and pricey will distract IMO. The furniture is as cheap today as it's been in a few years. The BCG wasn't worth much a month ago. Now it's probably worth or should I say will bring twice it's original cost more than likely. With or without ban scare, DPMS is about as low tier and budget priced as they get. With that said I've seen a couple still running strong at 10K rds. Run them very wet and keep it clean. The chrome bolt is worth more than a parkerized bolt IMO. Correct BCG in real nice shape could easily cost what a nice non retro asseembled upper will bring today. Re-finished upper isn't worth what an original is. Until we know what it is besides re-finished it's hard to value. Original finish and condition are key for top coins. Usually complete retro clones won't bring their cost in parts or there true value is usually expressed if parts are sold individually. There is always the pigeon. Is easier to unload at one time though. I'd say check GB, EE, and other auction sites and see what complete rifles are bringing today. That will be your most accurate to date appraisal. Keep in mind what they are asking and what they are selling for are two completely different subjects. If proposed ban litigation to date passes you're not gonna be able to legally sell it anyway except in parts less lower. Personally hoping new rifle ban won't fly but those in power no longer want it's citizens armed regardless of what they look you in the eye and tell you or the geographical region in which one resides on the planet earth. If told otherwise someone lied to you. |
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What's the significance of the arrow by the sight wheel? A "601" upper has no arrow on the upper receiver (and the sight wheel has only an "R" and arrow--no numbers). A "602" upper has an arrow on the receiver, but it's engraved into the metal. Later receivers have a "raised" arrow. |
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