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Posted: 12/21/2016 2:13:07 PM EDT
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Hey, all. I wanted to introduce myself and list my intended parts list.
First, about me: I live near Chicago in the south suburbs. I work as a salesman at a classic car dealership. I am in my late 20s and have been shooting with rentals for roughly 7 years on and off. My girlfriend and I just had our first son in March of this year and I wanted to be prepared for the worst. A few months ago I bought a 1911 for in-home protection, but don't currently have my CCL or an intended carry gun. I wanted to have an AR, partially because if SHTF I have something to effectively hunt as well as more effectively protect my family should the need arise. Now, the gun: I already have the majority of the lower complete. Spikes Warthog stripped lower Red Barn Armory LPK GI ambi fire selector ALG QMS trigger Tapco buffer and tube Magpul MOE K2+ grip Not yet purchased, but heavily considering: Rogers Super-Stoc DS Arms NiB BACH Ambi Charging Handle (BCM? POF?) DS Arms complete upper (ZM4CBU16M4CLSSG3-A) Fixed iron sights Possibly canted 4x? .22lr conversion bolt/mag for plinking/small game The goal of the build is to have something dead-nuts reliable without concern about how many shots I can fire in a second, if I can shoot a quarter at 600 yards, etc. If I can effectively take down small game with the .22lr and medium/larger game with the .223/5.56 should the need arise. I should also clarify, I am very much with the understanding that should SHTF the world will not turn into the wild west overnight, and I'm hoping/expecting I will never use this gun for anything other than having fun at the range, but I would still like to make sure I'm not putting myself up a creek with parts that have known issues. Thoughts? |
| I 100% could have spent less. All in I will be close to 1300-1500, if not more. I'm not so worried about that, just the reliability factor. Had I bought a pre-assembled gun and had something go wrong, I would more than likely replace/upgrade that component.i looked at college guns for a while, and heavily considered a Diamondback DB15 at a local shop here, but I have always been a hands-on guy, including rebuilding cars, and wanted to build a unique gun that no one else would have. Again 99% chance this is really just a range gun, and half the fun is showing it off and talking about it. |
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I will try to weigh in my opinion on the matter for what it's worth.
Personally I like the lightweight setups, my first couple were the standard Gov. profile barrels and they felt fine to me, but after trying out some lightweight barrels it really made a big difference in how the gun handled to me. I know you didn't mention this anywhere on your list but it is something to consider. You really don't gain much by going with a regular government profile over a lighter weight like the Faxon Gunner barrel but you save a good bit of weight out there on the front end of your gun where it is heaviest. What heavier barrels are good for is someone that likes to shoot enough rounds for the barrel to get fairly hot but still want their point of impact to be the same at all distances. Some barrels will open up slightly after warming up, but most shift their impact slightly. From my limited experience with the Faxon Gunners I would say they have no more shift in impact then any other heavier barrels I have shot. Just food for thought anyways, I won't knock anyway you decide to go. One other thing to decide on is barrel length, both 14.5 and 16" are great all around lengths and will suit your needs just fine. Living in a larger city perhaps a 11.5-12.5 SBR would be even better, I have a 11.5 pistol and it just feels great in the hands and seems so much shorter for just those mere 3-4 inches. You can still hit steel out to 500 with one but you do lose a good bit of velocity starting out. I'd probably just go 14.5 pinned or 16" midlength and call it good but it is something to consider anyways. When it comes to the BCGs I'd recommend you just get a good quality mil-spec bolt and not worry about the coating so much. I read quite a few threads on peoples NIB coatings chipping away and still see those threads on occasions. I doubt this would ever cause any issues malfunction wise but I have heard of issues of the cam pin freezing up with them as well. The good thing about these coatings is they are much easier to clean, and can likely be ran with less lube then the standard phosphate carrier. But another option to consider is the Nitrated/Melonited BCGs which I consider an improvement. It is not a coating but a surface treatment so there is nothing to flake off, but it still much easier to clean and slicker then the standard phosphate carriers. I would personally get either Palmetto State Armorys Premium BCG which is on sell for $90 shipped right now, or get AIM's V2 Nitrated BCG that is currently out of stock but normally $110, or keep an eye on WCArmory's ToolCraft BCGs. Those are all excellent values for the money. Another good option is browsing the equipment exchange and finding a like new brand name one such as Colt, BCM, DD, FN, etc which can often be had for $110-130. The carrier isn't really the part that you need to worry about, the bolt is what is really important. The 2 most important things on your whole rifle are the bolt, and the barrel. If you get quality ones of both, with the proper buffer weight then you will never have any issues with your rifle. Also when it comes to bolts, many of the bolts today are made of 9310 material which many claim is stronger then the Carpenter 158 used in mil-spec bolts. But personally I only buy the C-158 bolts since they are mil-spec and proven. I doubt you'd ever have any issues with a 9310 one and heck it might even end up being better, but it is just a personal preference of mine. For sights, you can't go wrong with the fixed A2 FSB, and a fixed rear sight. If you have no intentions of installing a red dot or scope then I would recommend getting a carry handle sight that bolts on the top to look like an A2. Make sure to get a good name brand one that is mil-spec they can usually be had for $40-50ish on the equipment exchange here. If you change your mind and end up going with a red dot or optic of some sort then I would recommend getting a Troy flip rear sight (my personal favorites) but there are many other good brands out there as well. And for a good budget red dot I recommend checking out Primary Arms they're premium one is around 180-200 I believe and they just came out with one not that long ago that has a pretty cool reticle it is a chevron with 3 dots below it for bullet drop out to 600. I know it is likely not ever necessary to need that but it's nice to have. I know a lot of people will bash my input based on recommending a Primary Arms dot but the truth is those things are pretty darn tough, if you look at the torture tests of them they just keep on going. And as long as you have a back up rear sight then it isn't an issue if it were to break, just flip up your rear sight and keep shooting. I like to have any sort of optic on a quick detach method though just to get it out of the way in case it were to go down, but you can shoot through the optic itself using the rear flip up sight if you wish. If money isn't a concern then the best option is of course probably always going to be an Aimpoint when it comes to red dots, I just have a hard time paying over twice as much for one but they have a good reputation. Oh, one last thing... do not be afraid to "build" your own upper to your choices. It is not complicated, if you can change the oil in your car then you can "build" an AR15. All you really need is to get the armorers tool that has the barrel wrench/flash hider wrench etc on it, and a couple small punches for the roll pins. The tools can be had for less then $30 from ebay. One thing that I would not recommend to a new builder is installing their own A2 FSB as it can be a little more complicated but you can still get whatever barrel you choose and have someone else pin it for you. Top Notch Top Ends also known as TNTE has a service of installing an A2 FSB for $60 which INCLUDES the FSB itself, barrel nut, and end cap which would cost about $40 or more just for those alone anyways so pretty cheap service they offer. Right To Bear has 14.5" Faxon gunners on sale right now for like $149 shipped which I plan on buying one of myself if they are still in stock in a few days. Another great barrel option to choose is Ballistic Advantage, they are another top notch company that I have barrels from and they offer the service to pin the A2 FSB in house for you. They also offer free shipping and a 10% discount for your first order as a new customer. This here would make you a great barrel - Ballistic Advantage 16" Pencil Barrel With the free shipping and discount it would be $207 shipped to your door with the FSB pinned and the handguard cap and delta ring assembly installed. They have a 14.7" pencil barrel for $10 less that is usually in stock but out at the moment. I personally prefer Faxon when it comes to pencil barrels since they seem to work with them more and I like how their barrels don't really shift impact much when they get hot unlike many other lighter weight barrels. I don't have a lightweight Ballistic Advantage one yet but I expect them to be pretty nice as well and wouldn't hesitate to order one either. When it comes to the upper receiver, there really isn't that much of a difference on them either. There is no need to pay $100 for a stripped upper. Schuyler Arms has Aero uppers already assembled with port door and forward assist for $65 on sale right now. Upper Link - Aero complete upper Aero has had a great reputation but here lately there have been a couple bad ones get through I suppose from the rush in demand with the election. Aim Surplus has Anderson stripped ones for $45, the upper parts to complete it is generally $15-20. Almost every AR place has them at varrying costs of $50-70ish but those are the 2 best deals I know of currently and plan on ordering from one of them myself, probably Schuyler since their shipping seems cheaper. One last thing, on your buffer tube kit make sure to get a mil-spec one and you will be fine. There are many places that have them for fairly good deals but one I ran across the other night was this one for $23 which seems to have good reviews and a good price Buffer Tube Kit You also can't beat PSA on most lower parts kit deals right now they have specials on a lot of them. I personally prefer Magpul MOE stocks, to me they feel great and look great at a bargain price. Sorry for the long post, I hope it was some use to you anyways. Good luck with your build! Edited to add - Sorry I forgot you said you already had a buffer tube kit. But one other thing I wanted to mention is I love my BCM charging handles. I use the mod 3 large ones and they are a big improvement over the stock mil-spec ones in my opinion and worth the extra coin. I have no use to go for an ambi one but if your a lefty it would be nice. I have been wanting to try out one of the other newer ones like the Raptor but just haven't gotten around to it yet. Edited again - I don't know how I missed this being one of the more important things but when it comes to lining the barrel I prefer to have them Nitrated/Melonited anymore. I like chrome lined barrels too, just prefer the Nitrated ones anymore since they are protected on both the inside and outside unlike chrome which is just inside, they are generally cheaper then chrome ones, and they are generally more accurate since chrome lining is never perfectly even causing slight inconsistencies in the bore. Doubtful you'd ever tell the accuracy difference in any of these for normal use, but just stick to a chrome lined one or nitrated one and you will be fine. A regular barrel is ok too, but they just aren't worth the money to me anymore with Nitrated ones being so cheap. You will get quite a few more rounds out of the Nitrated/Chrome lined ones over a regular barrel. Nobody can give you an exact number but if I had to guess I would say a regular unlined barrel will probably stick to 2-3 MOA until 8-10k rounds and the lined/treated ones will probably last more in the 15k round range before accuracy starts to open up too much. Shooting style plays a huge role, the more times you do mag dumps and heat the barrel up as hot as you can the quicker it will burn out. Again, all numbers will vary greatly depending on the person and their barrel. I also think there is an increase in reliability with the lined barrel since it is easier to keep the chamber clean with less carbon sticking to the insides of it allowing for a better extraction. |
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Great information, thank you. I had given thought to building my own upper, as I have done with the lower. I'm very mechanically inclined, I just don't see my better half getting excited about me owning more than one AR, so buying the tools for a single install doesn't make sense to me at the moment.
As far as an optic, that is good to know that some of the bargain brands can be good. I would really like to have the optic be the "back up sights" and become proficient on iron sights. I try to use the mentality of becoming good at something with the basics rather than buying to of the line everything and being terrible at everything. I am a lefty, so the AMBI controls are nice to have. The buffer tube is mil-spec, and it's a standard buffer. I may get spikes St-t2 or a heavy to see if I can get away with it. For the upper, I want something that is free-float, 16", preferably corrosion resistant, and reasonably accurate. Since this may serve don't duty as home defense, it may see a light/last combo, but probably not, as I want to keep is reasonably light; <8lbs. Again, thank you all for the input. |
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I had a long reply typed about and somehow accidentally clicked off the page and lost it, so here goes again but I will try to make this a little shorter.
The tools are very cheap to get, just by typing in AR15 tool on ebay the first thing I see is a set for $24 shipped which includes the armorers tool and receiver vice clamps - that is all you will need. You can sell the tools for $15-20 on the EE here after you are done building yours, or keep them so you are able to work on your rifle afterwards. You will need one of those tools anyways just to install a flash hider of your choice. Link - AR Tools Your first time you will have it completely done in less then 30 minutes more then likely, especially if you are mechanically inclined. The 2nd time will probably be more along the lines of 10-15 mins from start to finish. All you have to do is put some grease on the barrel going into the receiver, tap it in with a mallet if it is a little tight. Screw down the barrel nut, put the wrench on it once it gets tight and tighten it down with a little bit of force (doesn't take much). Then put the gas tube through the receiver and extend it out to the gas block and align it with the hole in the gas block (not hard), pick up the roll pin with a set of small vice grips or whatever you have laying around so it is easier to handle, and line it up with the hole and tap it a couple times, once it starts to go in remove the vice grips and tap it the rest of the way in. I won't knock ya either way you want to go, I just want you to know that you really shouldn't be limited to a certain upper because you are worried about building one, or afraid of the tool costs. As for iron sights, I prefer them myself as well and have irons on most of my rifles. But the red dots have a big advantage in low light and night shooting when you can not see your regular sight posts any longer. They are also faster on targets and follow up shots once you get used to them over irons. But the standard A2 iron sights are great and are rugged and reliable and won't fail you. Check out the fixed carry handle sights I mentioned they can be had used for the $40-50 price fairly often, sometimes I believe new ones are on sell for that price. The used ones are just military surplus since the military also uses these for fixed sight rifles. Do not pick up one of the cheap $25 Chinese copies on eBay though, the sights aren't as reliable for their elevation adjustment. If you do decide to go with a red dot there are many great options around the $200 price range that will suit you well with my favorite choice being the Primary Arms/Holosun ones. I have watched a few torture tests of those little sights and they just don't give up. They aren't battle tested like the Aimpoint, and the glass probably isn't quite as clear as an Aimpoint but for the price they are great sights. Of course a nice Aimpoint will always be everyones first choice for a quality red dot if you have the money. But I'd put a Primary Arms one on a rifle I was taking into combat any day as long as I had back up rear sights and a quick detach mount on it. As for your buffer, many barrel companies drill their gas ports large enough so that they are a little overgassed to work with the heavier buffers. People started adding the heavier buffers with a new rifle and when the rifle would malfunction they would complain about it so the barrel companies usually drill the port out enough to work with the larger ones anymore. I prefer carbine buffers myself because I prefer reliability over softer shooting rifles. To me the 5.56 is already so soft shooting I can't tell much difference. But if I had to choose another one I would run the next step up the regular H buffer. I doubt you ever have any issues with an even heavier one, just pick up some of the cheap PMC 223 55 grain stuff and shoot a couple boxes, if it cycles it fine then more then likely you won't ever have any issues with it. When it comes to rails you are fairly limited if you choose to keep the stock A2 FSB. I personally like the regular A2 FSB since I like my iron sights so usually just go with the regular Magpul MOE handguards for $30 which work great. I am not saying you should go that route, it is entirely up to you but I bet you would be happy with them unless you are planning on taking your rifle to a match shoot. Those little plastic handguards will save you a lot of money, and still offer you the choice of attaching lights on the side or grips on the bottom etc they are very versatile. They are also less likely to break IMO since they are connected at both the front and the rear. I know it is unlikely but if you hit a free float tube out at the end on something it is possible for it to crack or break I would imagine. Again, I figure that is highly unlikely, just throwing it out there. What the free float handguards are good for is if you are shooting for group size and need your point of impact to stay the same no matter how you pull on your rifle then that is what you need. For any combat type scenario or normal shooting out to 300+ yards you won't have any issues with a regular handguard. The biggest issue with the regular handguards is lets say you take your sling and wrap it around your arm as tight as you can pulling a certain angle on the barrel - your rifle might shoot an inch or two in a different direction at 100 yards because of this over your normal way of shooting. I have never had any issues with this, but I do see the appeal of free floated handguards. Again, there aren't many out there that allow you to keep the standard front sight base, but there are some options. My favorite one is the Apex handguards, they aren't talked about a whole lot on here but are a very good quality set up and it would be my first pick, plus they just look clean and sharper then most other free floats. Here is a link to their mid-length ones for the standard FSB - Link to Apex Handguards Here are a couple pictures I found with a google search to show ya what they look like on the rifle with the standard FSB - These are Not my images - Image 1 Image 2 Image 3 You can google search Apex Handguards in images and find a few more. And again to your barrels, for less hastle I would order the Ballistic Advantage 16" pencil one I linked ya to for around $200 for the barrel with front sight base installed, and handguard cap and delta ring assembly. Add a $65 Aero upper, $90 PSA bolt carrier group and you have a complete quality upper for around $375 minus handguard. If you went the Magpul MOE route that would be about $400 total. Go with a free float rail like the Apex and it'd be around $550-575ish but still not too bad and would be nice and lightweight for you. The Ballistic Advantage barrels have a 1 MOA guarantee and are great people to deal with. A few other barrel companies I really like that are good choices are Spikes, Green Mountain, Faxon, BCM, Daniel Defense, PSA's FN barrels, and a few others. Stick with one of these well known brands and get a chrome lined or melonited/nitrated barrel and you will be good to go. P.S. - There are a few extra parts you should stock up on for just in case scenarios in case something breaks. These common things would be a new extractor/spring for your bolt ($15-20ish), an extra recoil spring or two for the buffer tube ($5-10 each). A firing pin ($5-10ish) And it certainly doesn't hurt to have an extra spring for all the small parts in the lower. Most of those items in the lower you can pick up anywhere from .25cents to $1-2 somewhere like JSE Surplus. Last time I made an order out I ordered 3-4 of most of those small parts and it wasn't very much at all. The next best upgrade you could have for spare parts would be a completely new bolt. You don't need a whole new assembly as you aren't ever going to have any issues out of the carrier itself. The worst thing that could come up on the carrier is needing a new gas key which is unlikely but you can pick up one of those fairly cheap too. An entirely new bolt can be had somewhere like AIM for $40-50ish and is better then having just a spare extractor as a bolt is a common item that can break on an AR. I believe the normal life expectancy is generally 15-20k rounds but you never know what could happen. You can often times find like new bolts on the EE here for around $30 and would work great as a back up/spare. |
| If I were to build my own upper, what sort of concerns should I have, I.e. clearances, compatibility, etc.? Is it just a matter of bolting the parts together or would I need to be aware of certain clearances (I've heard the phrase "head spacing" thrown around). I should just hate to spend the money building an upper and having the parts be a complete mess. From the prices you quoted me it sounds like I would be spending pretty close to the same buying the upper complete or in parts. Buying it complete gives me a better chance of avoiding problems, though. |
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Sorry for the late reply. When it comes to AR's there really isn't anything that needs matched up, a few people check their headspace just because they like to but it really isn't necessary with the AR unless you are using worn out parts to start with. You can buy a new bolt from any manufacturer out there and then buy a barrel from any other manufacturer and they will mate up just fine unless perhaps its some oddball brand made a specific way that I haven't heard about. The headspace is already set on an AR with the barrel extension on the end of it which fits in the upper in an exact location. This is one of the things that makes building them so easy, it is easier to build an AR then it is just to do one tiny part of an AK. Like I mentioned above the ONLY tools you really need are the Armorers tool, the upper receiver clamp, and a couple small punches. You can buy all of that for less then $30 to your door. That is assuming you already own a vice of some sort to put the receiver in as you tighten the barrel down.
There's nothing wrong with buying an upper already put together, I guess I just look for more specific things in a rifle and most of the ones already put together don't match my needs. Most of the ones that do cost a lot more then I could build a similar quality one for. With that said, if you don't care to spend a little extra BCM is a great place to buy a complete upper. And they also have the lightweight barrels that I like. Pick you up a 14.5 or 16" middy from them minus handguards/BCG then get you a cheaper PSA Premium BCG for $90 instead of their $170 or whatever. If you want the handguard they use on them then that is fine but they cost a good bit as well (150-200 I believe). As I mentioned in one of my posts above, there aren't as many options out there for free floating handguards if you plan on using a standard A2 FSB. I really like those Apex ones I listed but they will run ya about 175ish. Another good budget rail I found the other day was the Aero ones you can get one for your Mid-Length for $83 shipped right now WITH the barrel nut, that is a pretty dang good deal. Link - Aero Handguard They also have a little bit nicer one for $129 with barrel nut - Aero Handguards 2 You want a 9" handguard if you want to run a free float on a Mid-Length and keep the A2 FSB. Those Aero ones are pretty nice especially for the money, Apex is my favorite but cost more, and BCM has their own as well. If you look around you can find a few of them in the 9" length just choose what you want to use. If you do not want to build your own then this is my first pick for you a 16" LW BCM standard upper for $439. Buy this and get a cheap Aero handguard for $83-129 or get one of the handguards offered with the rifle kit for $150+, Buy a PSA Premium BCG for $90 or better yet get one of the Nitrated AIM V2 bolts that just came back in stock for $100 shipped (will last you as long as the BCM one which is $170). Then you have your complete upper for around $600-700 and it will serve you well and be top quality. BCM 16" LW upper You can also pick you up a 14.5 for the same price, just spend the $45 extra to have the A2X flash hider perm attached. They aren't much shorter then the 16s but ya do save a little over an inch and in an urban environment that would be handier. BCM 14.5 LW Link to the BCG I'd buy over all others, PSA Premium would be 2nd choice. AIM V2 Nitrated BCG If you want even higher quality AIM has a couple BCM uppers, this one has a CHF barrel which will last a little longer then the standard one of theirs (doubt you'd ever shoot it enough to see a difference 10K+ probably). Also comes with their more expensive BCG & Charging Handle - AIM's BCM LW 16" Mid-Length Spikes is another company that has great products but their prices don't seem to be any cheaper then the basic BCM ones - both are great companies. AIM's Spikes 16" CHF Mid-Length One more last good option is PSA's Premium line. Do NOT buy their Ptac line they are really cheap, the Freedom line isn't bad but if you want a quality AR stick with their Premium line which uses FN barrels. Here are a couple good ones - PSA 16" Premium Mid-Length PSA 14.7" Mid-Length Or you can buy a complete rifle kit from PSA - PSA Premium 14.7" pinned CHF PSA's stuff comes and goes out of stock very regularly so look through what they have and wait for it to come in stock. If you don't care to have a heavier barrel there are even more choices, as the ones I linked to you were all lighter weight barrels which I prefer. |
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<snip> ... When it comes to AR's there really isn't anything that needs matched up, a few people check their headspace just because they like to but it really isn't necessary with the AR unless you are using worn out parts to start with... <snip> All due respect, Wolverine, but I disagree. Even if using a new bolt and new barrel, I would encourage builders to check headspace. You're right that the vast majority will check fine, but I had one that checked excessive headspace with a Field gauge. Brand new barrel and bolt from two very reputable manufacturers (and ARFCOM sponsors). The barrel was fine, but the bolt was out of spec. The manufacturer confirmed this and replaced the bolt. The explanation was that it slipped through their QC, which surprised them (and me too!). It was a hassle, shipping my assembled upper to them to verify the issue, but in the end, it all turned out for the best. I consider it a one-off issue, and would not hesitate buying from this manufacturer again. Check the headspace. It's not hard to do yourself or have a gunsmith or a trusted, experienced builder do it for you if you don't want to buy the gauges. |
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