AR Sponsor
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is this receiver destroyed ? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/30/2011 3:41:58 AM EDT
|
This is a Double Star receiver. I'm almost sure that is 7075. I bought it new and registered it as a SBR. I later found out that I would need to have it engraved to complete the build. I took it to a gunsmith/class 3 dealer here in my home state of WV. He advertised that he can do NFA engravings. I watched as he misspelled my name on the right side of the mag well. He told me that he can fix the mistake and we discussed how he would do it. I am a certified armorer and what he told me sounded good.
Several months went by and I still didn't have the receiver back. I finally insisted that he send me the receiver. When I got it back I immediately smelled spray paint and noticed a large blemish where the engraving was. Upon further inspection I noticed that whole receiver had been sandblasted and painted. I also observed that the blemish was bondo, or something like it. I bathed the receiver in acetone to remove the paint and scraped out the bondo. This was not the fix that was discussed. The attached pics is what I'm left with. I am asking for assistance to come up with a repair as it is a registered SBR. Ideally I want to patch the gouge in the mag well; have it engraved; re anodized; and re finished to spec. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Also, the guy who did this said that he anodized. How Can I tell? http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/chrisjohnsonwv95/2.jpghttp://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/chrisjohnsonwv95/3.jpghttp://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/chrisjohnsonwv95/4.jpghttp://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/chrisjohnsonwv95/1.jpg |
|
Quoted: This is a Double Star receiver. I'm almost sure that is 7075. I bought it new and registered it as a SBR. I later found out that I would need to have it engraved to complete the build. I took it to a gunsmith/class 3 dealer here in my home state of WV. He advertised that he can do NFA engravings. I watched as he misspelled my name on the right side of the mag well. He told me that he can fix the mistake and we discussed how he would do it. I am a certified armorer and what he told me sounded good. Several months went by and I still didn't have the receiver back. I finally insisted that he send me the receiver. When I got it back I immediately smelled spray paint and noticed a large blemish where the engraving was. Upon further inspection I noticed that whole receiver had been sandblasted and painted. I also observed that the blemish was bondo, or something like it. I bathed the receiver in acetone to remove the paint and scraped out the bondo. This was not the fix that was discussed. The attached pics is what I'm left with. I am asking for assistance to come up with a repair as it is a registered SBR. Ideally I want to patch the gouge in the mag well; have it engraved; re anodized; and re finished to spec. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Also, the guy who did this said that he anodized. How Can I tell? http://C:\Users\USER\Desktop\My SBR\1http://C:\Users\USER\Desktop\My SBR\2http://C:\Users\USER\Desktop\My SBR\3http://C:\Users\USER\Desktop\My SBR\4 Your pics don't show. |
to that smith.
|
That sucks!!!!! His bondo idea was a start.....It needs filled with Allum. metal and then sanded and refinished to be perfect again. You are in for alot of work to save a 100$ receiver. I don't know what you make at your job or if you enjoy this kind of project but it may be easier to start over. If he does not want to finish it the correct way so it is LIKE NEW then he should buy you a new one.
Why in the world did he not have you print your name on a paper first to be sure of the spelling ,like any engraver would? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
That lower has been SBR'd. Its now a $300 NFA receiver....alot of work to save a 100$ receiver.... if it hasnt been assembled into a SBR you can get inform ATF, send your form 1 back and get a refund on your $200 stamp, and register a new receiver. Even if that area was welded up and milled flush again, it would not color match after anno. The receiver you have is fine to shoot, ugly as sin, but it is serviceable. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That lower has been SBR'd. Its now a $300 NFA receiver....alot of work to save a 100$ receiver.... if it hasnt been assembled into a SBR you can get inform ATF, send your form 1 back and get a refund on your $200 stamp, and register a new receiver. Even if that area was welded up and milled flush again, it would not color match after anno. The receiver you have is fine to shoot, ugly as sin, but it is serviceable. I have no idea but would like to think the ATF once seeing pictures and what happened would work with you. |
|
He gave you $400? Buy another lower and register that. Boom, 2 SBR receivers for the price of one. Keep this one, duracoat it, and use it on a beater weapon. No reason to only get 1 NFA lower out of this. Sure, it's ugly, but it still works so why not use it, since it won't cost anything?
ETA: Since it's already fugly, just dremmel engrave it yourself and be done with worrying about it. |
|
Quoted:
He gave you $400? Buy another lower and register that. Boom, 2 SBR receivers for the price of one. Keep this one, duracoat it, and use it on a beater weapon. No reason to only get 1 NFA lower out of this. Sure, it's ugly, but it still works so why not use it, since it won't cost anything? ETA: Since it's already fugly, just dremmel engrave it yourself and be done with worrying about it. This is the best answer. |
|
Quoted:
I'm going to say this guy owes you a new lower and the cost of a new stamp. IMO he just bought himself a botched SBR lower. I'm not one to go the court route, but if he balks I'd take him to small claims and broadcast far and wide his screw-up. This. I would take his ass to small claims court if need be. |
|
You have a huge problem on your hands!!!!!
Not only is the receiver not SBR manufactured marked, but the the original manufacturer markings where removed as well. You have one of two options, Get the receiver marked with your SBR required information as in now, or destroy the receiver right now and just engrave a new receiver with your SBR markings (read a long as it has either the original markings/Serial number, or your SBR markings/serial number on it, it's legal. Aim's have receiver right now for $60, and even with transfer and shipping to push the price up to around $100, it's going to be a hell of lot cheaper that sitting on a receiver with all the manufactured marking and serial number removed and BAFT get there hand on it. Bottom line, the FFL should have not released the receive it it's un-marked state, and should have been destroyed on the spot instead of allowing it to leave his shop stripped of all markings. Better yet, why in the hell did he strip the receiver of it original markings in the first place, since your SBR manufacturing information should have just been added to the receiver instead. That way, if you even wanted to removed the SBR from the NFA registry, it would on require paper work, and the SBR engravings could have stayed. |
|
Quoted:
My CLEO doesn't like to sign forms 1's so I'm going to attempt to save this receiver. I'm looking into a trust. The engraver was loking at my form 1 when he screwed it up. You don't need to save the receiver since you have to mark any receiver with your SBR information for it to be legal as a SBR. Start with a new receiver (read destroy the old receiver right now since all it's markings have been defaced/removed), and have the form 1 markings engraved to the new receiver, including the Serial number that you used on the form 1. The original manufacturers information is irreverent so long as the receiver is a SBR in the NFA registry with those form 1 information markings. And as stated, you form'd 1 to created a SBR, and it can be any host receiver to do such, and until a receiver has been engraved and turned into a SBR with such, your still open on any receiver to do such from. My guess, you used the serial number from the original manufacture on the form 1, and as stated, as long as that form 1 serial number is added with your information on a brand new receiver, it still legal. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
My CLEO doesn't like to sign forms 1's so I'm going to attempt to save this receiver. I'm looking into a trust. The engraver was loking at my form 1 when he screwed it up. You don't need to save the receiver since you have to mark any receiver with your SBR information for it to be legal as a SBR. Start with a new receiver (read destroy the old receiver right now since all it's markings have been defaced/removed), and have the form 1 markings engraved to the new receiver, including the Serial number that you used on the form 1. The original manufacturers information is irreverent so long as the receiver is a SBR in the NFA registry with those form 1 information markings. It is a crime to deface or remove any mfg info, and in this case it would be the info relative to the mfg of the lower receiver. It's not clear from the pics if the original info has been removed though. Regardless, the RECEIVER is not a SBR at this point. The SN is registered with NFA, but it isn't a SBR until it is assembled as such. |
|
I don't believe the original manufacturing info (IE: "Double Star" & SN: "XXXX") have been defaced. He never showed that side or mentioned it.
It looks as if there's only a big gouge where the where his name is supposed to go for the NFA markings. If it's just the NFA markings no big deal, as an NFA reciever has technically not been assembled yet. If the original markings are gone (doesn't seem to be the case) I'd de-mil the receiver post-haste. It seems in this case he just has a NFA receiver lacking the new NFA markings (which he could do himself on such an ugly lower). And for those of you screaming that this needs to be made right... it has been, to the tune of $400. Calm down. Also, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but you could really buy and engrave any old receiver at this point, so long as when you mark it you engrave the SN you have registered with the NFR. It would have 2 serial numbers, but as long as the one you have registered is engraved with your manufacturers markings, you should be good to go. |
|
Quoted:
I don't believe the original manufacturing info (IE: "Double Star" & SN: "XXXX") have been defaced. He never showed that side or mentioned it. . If that is the case, the just just clean/squared up the gouged section, and make a insert piece to be epoxied in to engrave something on it, then have the SBR information engraved below it correctly this time. To Tig fill and re anodize the receiver where he screwed the pooch, your looking at more cost than just to buy a new receiver. Short of that, if the original markings are still in take, make some on a deal on a heavily blemished receiver, and buy a new receiver to SBR instead. |
|
Easy fix that could look pretty good if done right. Find someone who knows how to operate a mill. Have them smooth up the error area where the botched work was done, it'll be recessed but there is no way around that. Once the area is smoothed up have them engrave your info into in the now smooth/recessed location. If done right, it may look different then other's SBR's engraving but it won't look like someone dropped it out of a car at 50mph and had it fixed at the local auto-body shop.
|
|
Quoted:
The lower is a non-stressed part. Its useable but FUGLY. If I were you I would do two things. DEMAND that he replace the receiver first, or I would see if you might not get the manufacturer of the receiver to send you a new one with the same serial number. I have two concerns with this lower. The first is the anodization makes it stronger, as to avoid nicks and scratches. It also helps to preserve the pin holes. The second is that the mag well is designed to be an exhaust port in the event of a catastrophic failure. This directs blast pressures down and away from the shooter. Â That's why, in most cases, like a case rupture, you'll see he magazine blown apart. Â As for this guy replacing the receiver, I don't trust him and didn't want anything more to do with him after he gave me $400 for his screw up. Â I checked with Double Star, and they advised that they checked with their legal, because it is NFA weapon they can't reproduce another with the same number. |
|
Quoted:
You have a huge problem on your hands!!!!! Not only is the receiver not SBR manufactured marked, but the the original manufacturer markings where removed as well. You have one of two options, Get the receiver marked with your SBR required information as in now, or destroy the receiver right now and just engrave a new receiver with your SBR markings (read a long as it has either the original markings/Serial number, or your SBR markings/serial number on it, it's legal. Aim's have receiver right now for $60, and even with transfer and shipping to push the price up to around $100, it's going to be a hell of lot cheaper that sitting on a receiver with all the manufactured marking and serial number removed and BAFT get there hand on it. Bottom line, the FFL should have not released the receive it it's un-marked state, and should have been destroyed on the spot instead of allowing it to leave his shop stripped of all markings. Better yet, why in the hell did he strip the receiver of it original markings in the first place, since your SBR manufacturing information should have just been added to the receiver instead. That way, if you even wanted to removed the SBR from the NFA registry, it would on require paper work, and the SBR engravings could have stayed. All of the original markings are there. You just can't see them in these pics they'r on the other side of the receiver. |
|
http://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/knowledge/qa/How-Do-I-Weld-2024-and-7075.cfm
A couple of folks have recommended welding the bad spot. I am not a welder, and claim no special knowledge, but from the article, welding may not be a good idea. I particularly like the phrase "intergranular microcracking." I'm going to try to work that into a conversation with a drunken person. Just to see their reaction. |
|
Quoted:
http://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/knowledge/qa/How-Do-I-Weld-2024-and-7075.cfm A couple of folks have recommended welding the bad spot. I am not a welder, and claim no special knowledge, but from the article, welding may not be a good idea. I particularly like the phrase "intergranular microcracking." I'm going to try to work that into a conversation with a drunken person. Just to see their reaction. it can be welded safely, but it will need to be milled near flush and the receiver media blasted for uniformity. At that point, anodization could be performed, but it will NOT color match between the forged lower and the weld deposit. Anno is probably a good idea to protect the metal, but then you are left to apply some type of spray on coloring. As said earlier in the thread, have that pocket milled smooth and engrave your info in there. The magwell as an exhaust? Yeah it will blow down through the mag, not out the side. |
|
Quoted:
This is a Double Star receiver. I'm almost sure that is 7075. I bought it new and registered it as a SBR. I later found out that I would need to have it engraved to complete the build. I took it to a gunsmith/class 3 dealer here in my home state of WV. He advertised that he can do NFA engravings. I watched as he misspelled my name on the right side of the mag well. He told me that he can fix the mistake and we discussed how he would do it. I am a certified armorer and what he told me sounded good. Several months went by and I still didn't have the receiver back. I finally insisted that he send me the receiver. When I got it back I immediately smelled spray paint and noticed a large blemish where the engraving was. Upon further inspection I noticed that whole receiver had been sandblasted and painted. I also observed that the blemish was bondo, or something like it. I bathed the receiver in acetone to remove the paint and scraped out the bondo. This was not the fix that was discussed. The attached pics is what I'm left with. I am asking for assistance to come up with a repair as it is a registered SBR. Ideally I want to patch the gouge in the mag well; have it engraved; re anodized; and re finished to spec. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Also, the guy who did this said that he anodized. How Can I tell? http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/chrisjohnsonwv95/2.jpghttp://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/chrisjohnsonwv95/3.jpg http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/chrisjohnsonwv95/4.jpghttp://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/chrisjohnsonwv95/1.jpg Here is what I'm thinking of doing. See what you guys think. 1. Send it to Orion for engraving get it a little deeper than normal if I can. 2. send it to US Anodizing to be anodized and dyed. 3. Patch the crater with something. I'm open for suggestions. 4. Get it cerakoated. I'm open for suggestions for a good applicator. ????????? Thanks for all of the imput. |
|
Quoted:
Here is what I'm thinking of doing. See what you guys think. 1. Send it to Orion for engraving get it a little deeper than normal if I can. 2. send it to US Anodizing to be anodized and dyed. 3. Patch the crater with something. I'm open for suggestions. 4. Get it cerakoated. I'm open for suggestions for a good applicator. ????????? Thanks for all of the imput. I think a well designed camo-type paint job would do well to hide the damage. |
|
Cheap way to fill the damage is JB weld and cover it with Krylon.
Give M60 Joe a call and see if he can offer a better fill of the damage and refinish to cover the repair: http://m60joe.com/ |
|
If it is a forging, and 7075T6, it takes some doing to weld it right.
Shortest and likely lowest stress answer is- Gumby with the mill owes you a lower. Not sure how he jigged it up to do the work, but I can't see it being that hard to ensure the plane he was trying to engrave was plumb before making chips. Judging by that divot, looks like he just chucked it in a vise and fired it up. If there is spray paint involved, he probably did not get it anodized. While the surface finish would be different, the overall color would match. (Unless he had the lower anodized AFTER his divot, which I'm sure raised some eyebrows and got some grins at the ano shop) Bondo is the icing on the cake. I take it he's never heard of A4 or EP22 aluminum filled epoxy or similar. Not that it would have been the correct "fix" either. Milling fuck ups happen. Passing those on to the customer with a slathering of Bondo and rattlecan should not. |
|
Quoted:
If it is a forging, and 7075T6, it takes some doing to weld it right. Shortest and likely lowest stress answer is- Gumby with the mill owes you a lower. Not sure how he jigged it up to do the work, but I can't see it being that hard to ensure the plane he was trying to engrave was plumb before making chips. Judging by that divot, looks like he just chucked it in a vise and fired it up. If there is spray paint involved, he probably did not get it anodized. While the surface finish would be different, the overall color would match. (Unless he had the lower anodized AFTER his divot, which I'm sure raised some eyebrows and got some grins at the ano shop) Bondo is the icing on the cake. I take it he's never heard of A4 or EP22 aluminum filled epoxy or similar. Not that it would have been the correct "fix" either. Milling fuck ups happen. Passing those on to the customer with a slathering of Bondo and rattlecan should not. Thanks, is A4 or EP22 hard to work with? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
If it is a forging, and 7075T6, it takes some doing to weld it right. Shortest and likely lowest stress answer is- Gumby with the mill owes you a lower. Not sure how he jigged it up to do the work, but I can't see it being that hard to ensure the plane he was trying to engrave was plumb before making chips. Judging by that divot, looks like he just chucked it in a vise and fired it up. If there is spray paint involved, he probably did not get it anodized. While the surface finish would be different, the overall color would match. (Unless he had the lower anodized AFTER his divot, which I'm sure raised some eyebrows and got some grins at the ano shop) Bondo is the icing on the cake. I take it he's never heard of A4 or EP22 aluminum filled epoxy or similar. Not that it would have been the correct "fix" either. Milling fuck ups happen. Passing those on to the customer with a slathering of Bondo and rattlecan should not. Thanks, is A4 or EP22 hard to work with? A lot harder than Bondo. They're metal filled epoxies, not polyester resin based like Bondo. And they won't anodize, so you'd still have this weird looking spot on your magwell. Like I said, a good machinist would realize they'd fucked up and eat the cost. |
|
Quoted:
Just finish drilling through the magazine well, if anyone asks just say it's a lightening cut. Yes I'm serious and I would use a mill to do it ETA: Like this http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9806/img45221.jpg Actually, that doesn't look too shabby. |
|
Ok, I've been doing some investigating. One of the things that I wanted to find out was to see if this receiver still has an anodized surface. An anodized surface will not conduct electricity. So I checked this receiver with a digital multimeter for continuity. I also checked another receiver that I have on hand that is 18 serial numbers away from the screwed up one. They are both from Double Star. The screwed up receivers reading indicated that it will conduct electricity. A test of the other receiver showed that it will not conduct electricity. I checked several different locations, on the receivers. One thing that I did find on the Screwed up receiver is that the holes did not conduct electricity. This leads me to believe that the holes did not get sandblasted enough to strip off all of the anodized finish. They still retain some original color, but it's much lighter than the other receiver. I did install the hammer and trigger to check for fit. The pins seemed to fit as good as the good receiver. Having this receiver anodized is important to me. It helps with dents, dings, and scratches. It also helps strengthen the receiver.
Now, with this info, I have some questions. Can this receiver be anodized again without building up/ shrinking the holes? My thinking is that it can, because the anodized surface, of the hole, will not conduct the electricity needed to anodize that area. I also weighed the two receivers and the screwed up receiver is 3 grams lighter than the good one. I'm not too concerned about that because I also weighed a new S&W receiver and it weighed 3 grams less that the screwed up one. FYI, I also checked the S&W receiver, and it will not conduct electricity. |
|
Yes, the receiver can be re-anodized.
The rub, it going to cost you just as much to do that, as it would be to just buy a new receiver ($75 plus shipping, since it will need to be bead blasted, then re-anodized. The $35 cost is if you bead blast it before sending it in/ or is a receiver that has not been anodized before and is in the white). http://www.usanodizing.com/pricing.htm New stripped lower receiver. http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1SASL |
|
Quoted:
So who did this? I shold be dragging this guys name through the mud, but that's not going to get me any closer to a fix for this problem. I settled with the butcher for $400, and don't want antthing else to do with him. I'll just tell you not to go anywhere near Martinsburg, WV. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is this receiver destroyed ? (Page 1 of 2)
AR Sponsor