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Posted: 3/17/2015 5:23:56 PM EDT
| I see how almost everyone has the unit-roll pins on their AR now. Not going to lie, it looks pretty sweet. Is it even worth putting these on to prevent wear on the lower receive and to prevent the pins from walking out after a lot of use? |
| Like others have said, they are not needed. I however do use them. I have a drop in CMC trigger and liked the KNS pins better than the ones that came with the unit. Even so, I had them on another build just for piece of mind and I also like the look. I did have a friend whose step-father bought him a "new" AR. The lower was an Anderson, and the pins would walk on his. His barrel was also key-holing, so my suspicion is that either the whole gun was poorly spec'd or it was very used rather than new. |
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They do prevent rolling and they do prevent walking. But on most lowers theyre not needed. If you ever have a pin walk, definitely get KNS pins. Beyond that, meh. i agree. i have them on one AR because the pins started walking one day after i had fired about 200 rounds through the gun. i havent had problems with my other 2 AR's though. weird. building a 308 AR right now, i plan to use them from the start. FYI, primary arms is having a sale on them right now for $20. |
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Where do you see them for $20? PA shows them listed at $26.99 Quoted:
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FYI, primary arms is having a sale on them right now for $20 Where do you see them for $20? PA shows them listed at $26.99 I've been framed!!! 
No really, I'm not the one who said it lol |
| They eliminate pin walking, and prevent hole wear on the lower. Not a big deal if you milled a $50 80%er, but a significant consideration if you have a registered SBR or full-auto lower that cannot be conveniently replaced. I have them on several of my ARs and have no regrets. |
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I wouldn't put them on anything, it's a bandaid solution for the real problem imo you wouldn't be saying that if you had a self contained trigger unit such as the Elftmann 3 gun trigger. unlike stand triggers that uses the spring to rest on the pins, the Elftmann can easily walk out. |
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you wouldn't be saying that if you had a self contained trigger unit such as the Elftmann 3 gun trigger. unlike stand triggers that uses the spring to rest on the pins, the Elftmann can easily walk out. Quoted:
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I wouldn't put them on anything, it's a bandaid solution for the real problem imo you wouldn't be saying that if you had a self contained trigger unit such as the Elftmann 3 gun trigger. unlike stand triggers that uses the spring to rest on the pins, the Elftmann can easily walk out. I would say the problem lies with that trigger. |
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you wouldn't be saying that if you had a self contained trigger unit such as the Elftmann 3 gun trigger. unlike stand triggers that uses the spring to rest on the pins, the Elftmann can easily walk out. Quoted:
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I wouldn't put them on anything, it's a bandaid solution for the real problem imo you wouldn't be saying that if you had a self contained trigger unit such as the Elftmann 3 gun trigger. unlike stand triggers that uses the spring to rest on the pins, the Elftmann can easily walk out. Isn't the Elftmann the type with the set screws that retain the hammer and trigger pins? Seems like set screws would do a good job of keeping the pins in place. |
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I would like to eat my helping of crow now if you guys don't mind.
I've always said they aren't needed. And I didn't have a need for them. Although I stand by my original assessment that they aren't "needed" for most applications, I do now see a benefit. Case in point, I just installed the slightly oversized .155 gen2 mod2 pins in my rifle. I recently installed a Larue trigger. The great trigger made me pay more attention to details. Like how my pin holes were just big enough to induce some movement in the trigger assembly. I've honestly never noticed this until then. I realize it was fine. I realize also that it would run for a lifetime without problems more than likely. However, it bugged the shit out of me. So I ordered the pins to see how they would do. I installed them not more than 20mins ago. And I am a very happy camper. They fit great. They removed all of the slack that was bugging me. And honestly the trigger feels better than ever. It's smoother and crisper. Which is saying something because it was already pretty damned good. Bottom line is while I still don't believe they're needed, I will no longer question people that choose to use them. I am impressed with the fit and improvement made in my rifle. YMMV 
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I think KNS pins prevent a possible issue generally. I have never had pins walk ever, except on a drop-in TImney trigger and it is a common issue with drop-ins apparently. Also an issue with full-auto, but I an not weathly enough to have the disposable income for one of those YET.
For $20-$25, they are piece of mind so I have no issue picking them up. |
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I have a set of the gen 2 on my SBR. When I first saw them installed my first thought was "those look sharp!"
They prob aren't needed. My SBR lower will be passed on to my son and his son, etc so I figure for a lower that will hopefully be in the family after I'm long gone for $30, why not. |
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Ive used the kns pins on a ruger sr556. After four or five rounds the factory pins would walkout and cause a jam. These pins corrected the issue. Never had such problems with other ar15 I own factory built or home built. Of course the KNS Pins corrected your issue because they are physically holding your trigger and hammer axles in place. The only problem is they didn't fix the root cause of such an issue which is probably an incorrectly assembled or defective lower, and or trigger group parts. The AR rifles we all know and love have been in service for more than 50 years with many militarys and other groups around the world without the benefit of these pins. If you used KNS pins to correct a walking pin issue your rifle is still fucked, you just don't know it because you didn't fix the issue, you just hid it. |
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If you used KNS pins to correct a walking pin issue your rifle is still fucked, you just don't know it because you didn't fix the issue, you just hid it. LOL what an ignorant comment. If the detent groove in the original pin is too shallow, the pin will walk. Replacing the pin with a KNS pin will fix the problem, not just mask it. If the J-spring in the hammer is too weak or the groove in the hammer pin is too shallow, the hammer pin can walk. A KNS hammer pin solves the too-shallow groove problem, and eliminates the need for the J-spring entirely. Either way, the problem is eliminated, not just masked. If the hammer pin rotates when the hammer is cocked or released, it will eventually wear the hammer pin hole in the receiver out of round. This will happen much more quickly with an 80% build where the hole is not anodized. If a KNS pin is used, the wear occurs to the hammer and hammer pin, not the receiver. If you have a cheapo lower it may not be a big deal, but if you have a registered SBR or full-auto lower, it is a Big Deal. It's a lot cheaper to replace the hammer and hammer pin than the lower in any case. |
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Of course the KNS Pins corrected your issue because they are physically holding your trigger and hammer axles in place. The only problem is they didn't fix the root cause of such an issue which is probably an incorrectly assembled or defective lower, and or trigger group parts. The AR rifles we all know and love have been in service for more than 50 years with many militarys and other groups around the world without the benefit of these pins. If you used KNS pins to correct a walking pin issue your rifle is still fucked, you just don't know it because you didn't fix the issue, you just hid it. Whats your stance on Geissele using larger than spec pins? |
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If your pins start walking, check to make sure your hammer spring is resting on top of the trigger pin. This is most of some people's problems. Unless if it's a drop-in unit...as those don't have pins that can be captured by the spring -in that case, KNS pins would be a good thing to have. |
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LOL what an ignorant comment. If the detent groove in the original pin is too shallow, the pin will walk. Replacing the pin with a KNS pin will fix the problem, not just mask it. If the J-spring in the hammer is too weak or the groove in the hammer pin is too shallow, the hammer pin can walk. A KNS hammer pin solves the too-shallow groove problem, and eliminates the need for the J-spring entirely. Either way, the problem is eliminated, not just masked. If the hammer pin rotates when the hammer is cocked or released, it will eventually wear the hammer pin hole in the receiver out of round. This will happen much more quickly with an 80% build where the hole is not anodized. If a KNS pin is used, the wear occurs to the hammer and hammer pin, not the receiver. If you have a cheapo lower it may not be a big deal, but if you have a registered SBR or full-auto lower, it is a Big Deal. It's a lot cheaper to replace the hammer and hammer pin than the lower in any case. Quoted:
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If you used KNS pins to correct a walking pin issue your rifle is still fucked, you just don't know it because you didn't fix the issue, you just hid it. LOL what an ignorant comment. If the detent groove in the original pin is too shallow, the pin will walk. Replacing the pin with a KNS pin will fix the problem, not just mask it. If the J-spring in the hammer is too weak or the groove in the hammer pin is too shallow, the hammer pin can walk. A KNS hammer pin solves the too-shallow groove problem, and eliminates the need for the J-spring entirely. Either way, the problem is eliminated, not just masked. If the hammer pin rotates when the hammer is cocked or released, it will eventually wear the hammer pin hole in the receiver out of round. This will happen much more quickly with an 80% build where the hole is not anodized. If a KNS pin is used, the wear occurs to the hammer and hammer pin, not the receiver. If you have a cheapo lower it may not be a big deal, but if you have a registered SBR or full-auto lower, it is a Big Deal. It's a lot cheaper to replace the hammer and hammer pin than the lower in any case. This is the main reason for me using them on my 80% builds. |
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If your pins start walking, check to make sure your hammer spring is resting on top of the trigger pin. This is most of some people's problems. I've seen trigger pins walk even with the hammer spring correctly installed on top of the trigger pin in the groove. It's especially likely if you're using a light hammer spring for a crisper trigger pull. |
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Quoted: If the hammer pin rotates when the hammer is cocked or released, it will eventually wear the hammer pin hole in the receiver out of round. This will happen much more quickly with an 80% build where the hole is not anodized. If a KNS pin is used, the wear occurs to the hammer and hammer pin, not the receiver. If you have a cheapo lower it may not be a big deal, but if you have a registered SBR or full-auto lower, it is a Big Deal. It's a lot cheaper to replace the hammer and hammer pin than the lower in any case. Has anyone ever seen a full auto lower with pin holes out of round? Because I aint. I have 60K+ rounds though a cheap Anderson lower converted to full auto and its the same as the day it was made as far as I can tell. The auto sear hole was not anodized/refinished and thats fine too. I'm not saying the full auto wearing the holes is bullshit, but what I am saying is that big army never seems to have an issue despite having some lowers in circulation for 30 years, and in all my time as an 07 and shooting my own guns I've never seen it either. |
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