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Posted: 2/10/2014 5:18:39 PM EDT
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Hi All,
New year and a new build going on. I would like to hear from some of the experts and primarily guys who shoot A LOT. I am building an ultra light weight gun for my wife who wants to spend a little range time with her very own EBR. I'm trying to keep the build compact, and as light as possible. That background being said, I am wondering if while using some polymers and carbon fiber to keep the weight down, will I drive towards more recoil in a 5.56 platform. I also would like to hear thoughts on using a full auto BCG with the intention of taming recoil/muzzle rise vs something like a JP light weight bcg and buffer combo. Specs thus far are: Polymer lower with 6 pos collapsible A3 buttstock. 5 oz of carbon fiber forward, 14.5" CHF DD lt wt profile barrel, billet flat upper. Question: NiB full auto bcg, reg buffer JP lt. wt. bcg and lt. wt. buffer combo. Wanting to keep it as light as possible, but I truly need to control recoil/rise. Thanks, Tim |
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Hi Tim,
Some muzzle compensators are really good at reducing recoil. I'm using these right now on a couple rifles and they work good Compersator These are good for several reasons. Black nitrided finish, both extended length and standard A2 length. I have one pinned on a 14.5. They comply with California detachable magazine builds. Low price. I think they are a good value. There are varying weights of both ar15 and M16 carriers. Skeletonized, lightened. that will have an impact on the felt recoil. I'm just getting started on a lightweight build, I have to get to a functioning polymer lower first, and test that with any upper before I build the lightweight upper. Have fun with it! Happy shooting to you. -W ETA: I'm not an expert and I don't shoot a lot, but what the heck. ETA: I read in another thread that a mid length gas system has reduced felt recoil. |
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Good deal,
The "felt" recoil is what was driving me towards the full auto bcg with hopes it's mass would tame the recoil while using the proper comp to tame muzzle rise. My hesitation with the heavier bcg would be that driving heavier mass into the buffer might actually have the opposite effect by passing it's energy into the shoulder. Just looking for that sweet spot that keeps the muzzle down, but tames the recoil since the gun won't have the normal mass and or length to control it. Thanks for any and all comments. The more opinions the better! Tim |
| My last build I was going for more of a light weight build (although it didn't end that way) starting with an 80% polymer lower (EP80, would not recommend to many specs just barely off) and then went from there. I ultimately put an extended rifle length floating handguard on a 16" barrel. Although it made the riffle a little front heavy, it resulted in almost no muzzle climb and made the rifle very easy to shoot when putting a lot of lead down range very rapidly. I will be honest, it feels a little goofy when you first pick it up because of the balance, but it shoots beautifully. I don't know if this helps at all but I've found that when trying to reduce kick and muzzle climb, the more mass the better. |
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Some observations from someone who does not currently shoot a lot but who has shot a lot in the past over the years. YMMV.
Regarding your questions: I have no experience with polymer lowers. No major comment. But there is always a compromise between weight and recoil. Weight down, perceived recoil up. Heavier weight carrier does not actually reduce recoil but slows the transfer of energy, as does the buffer. Spreads out the transfer of energy over time. Perhaps less perceived recoil , people argue over that. Doesn't hurt and might help. Weight up in moving parts, perceived recoil down. Muzzle compensators: Few things will make you more hated by the person on line beside you than a compensator. Maybe being shot is worse, but I want to strangle the SOB next to me with a compensator. All that way cool deflected blast goes into my head. And, it does not offer a lot of improved muzzle control unless you are a high end shooter where muzzle flip control means hundredths of seconds For most mortals it is not an issue. I vote no. ?Maybe build her a nice lightweight with full carrier group and good recoil buffer and a good well fitting stock. Or, it you want, build her a heavier rifle and show her sand bags and rests. A good problem to have. These are just my observations. You have a lot of options and there have been some great comments here. Good Luck! |
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Yep,
Great comments, appreciate it. I have shot 5.56 plenty, in many different variants, but my wife hasn't. She is petite, and hasn't a lot of upper body strength, or semi-auto gun time, hence the lightweight build. I wanted it shorter than my carbine, but not an 11.5 kinda length. 14.5 fits the bill for compromise, as long as I can keep the handguard from adding weight out front. Thinking of a nice carbon fiber float tube. My son and I built a 16" carbine length last year, nice YHM rail, billet upper and lower. It was too heavy for her to stand and shoot very long with. I am amazed at how much heavier his M4 is in comparison to my old A2. I was afraid that by reducing the weight out front that I would invite difficult second shot acquisition until she can get used to the way things work. Reduced perception of recoil is fair enough in this case. She won't be rapid firing anything, so cycle rate won't be an issue, I just want the reduced platform to shoot comfy. That's good enough. Thanks folks, Tim |
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How much you looking to spend? You could build a pretty awesome 5 - 5.5 pound AR. Trouble is, you'll probably want it for yourself.
Stay away from the polymer lowers. They're questionable. Look into the magnesium upper and lower receivers. Snag a BCM KMR13 rail when it's released. Add a lightweight barrel profile, preferably 14.5" with a pinned on flash suppressor. Opt for a flash suppressor vs. a comp since it won't be so loud. Trust me, she'll hate loud. A BE Meyers 249F would be awesome. Throw a Spikes Tactical titanium bolt carrier and S7 bolt in it. Spikes Tactical lightweight BUIS's. Aimpoint T1 on an absolute co-witness mount. Throw on some lightweight furniture such as a Magpul MOE K2 and a Milspec Magpul CTR stock. I'm partial to the PWS 416 Receiver Extensions. Throw in a JP Silent Buffer, so you wouldn't need the buffer retainer or spring. Throw a Battle Arms Development BAD CASS ST in it. Throw in a Geissele trigger pack of your preference in it. Seekins bolt release and magazine button. Norgon ambidextrous release. If you want to really take it to the next level, visit V7 Weapon Systems, and throw on a titanium gas block, inconel gas tube, and a aluminum dust cover. Get a nice 2 point padded sling from Blue Force Gear. |
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Quoted:
How much you looking to spend? You could build a pretty awesome 5 - 5.5 pound AR. Trouble is, you'll probably want it for yourself. Stay away from the polymer lowers. They're questionable. Look into the magnesium upper and lower receivers. Snag a BCM KMR13 rail when it's released. Add a lightweight barrel profile, preferably 14.5" with a pinned on flash suppressor. Opt for a flash suppressor vs. a comp since it won't be so loud. Trust me, she'll hate loud. A BE Meyers 249F would be awesome. Throw a Spikes Tactical titanium bolt carrier and S7 bolt in it. Spikes Tactical lightweight BUIS's. Aimpoint T1 on an absolute co-witness mount. Throw on some lightweight furniture such as a Magpul MOE K2 and a Milspec Magpul CTR stock. I'm partial to the PWS 416 Receiver Extensions. Throw in a JP Silent Buffer, so you wouldn't need the buffer retainer or spring. Throw a Battle Arms Development BAD CASS ST in it. Throw in a Geissele trigger pack of your preference in it. Seekins bolt release and magazine button. Norgon ambidextrous release. If you want to really take it to the next level, visit V7 Weapon Systems, and throw on a titanium gas block, inconel gas tube, and a aluminum dust cover. Get a nice 2 point padded sling from Blue Force Gear. WHEW! That is "next level"! I kinda had in mind building a super slick version, just building it around her physical ability. We all know how it works, build it so its shootable for her, but we all know when we get north of a grand on a rifle build who its really being built for. Gets her involved, (and fills another empty slot in the safe). Really great ideas. In regards to the polymer lower. I know they aren't the best or as precise as Al or Mg receivers, but I swapped for a complete unit a while back and its just sitting around. Cost is a consideration, but only to a point. The goal is to build a smokin' upper unit, then when my funds replenish build a lower to match. This lets me get her up and going with a suitable platform, then when she gets tired of it, or money permits, upgrade the lower. I like the idea of a <5.5 lb unit, that would be perfect. Hadn't thought about the noise issue. I have a full length rifle platform with the Griffin 5.56 flash comp on the tip....it IS rather obscene to the ears. Only plus is its 20" away. That won't be the case with her build. Food for thought though. Tim |
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Quoted:
Yep, Great comments, appreciate it. I have shot 5.56 plenty, in many different variants, but my wife hasn't. She is petite, and hasn't a lot of upper body strength, or semi-auto gun time, hence the lightweight build. I wanted it shorter than my carbine, but not an 11.5 kinda length. 14.5 fits the bill for compromise, as long as I can keep the handguard from adding weight out front. Thinking of a nice carbon fiber float tube. My son and I built a 16" carbine length last year, nice YHM rail, billet upper and lower. It was too heavy for her to stand and shoot very long with. I am amazed at how much heavier his M4 is in comparison to my old A2. I was afraid that by reducing the weight out front that I would invite difficult second shot acquisition until she can get used to the way things work. Reduced perception of recoil is fair enough in this case. She won't be rapid firing anything, so cycle rate won't be an issue, I just want the reduced platform to shoot comfy. That's good enough. Thanks folks, Tim A LW barrel and a light weight hand guard (MI SSG2 is slim for a small hand to grip...) make one hell of a difference. For a lightweight lower option (and extremely well regarded) is the GWACS lower. And you can get it in fashionable colors, if that would make it more interesting for her. There are also recoil absorbing stocks, or you can add a recoil pad to a standard stock. There are numerous ways to make the gun shoot softer, without breaking the bank, or braking the muzzle. |
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I recently built a rifle on a polymer lower. It required a lot of "custom" fitting. YMMV.
I doubt that you will see much of a recoil reduction between a S/A and F/A bolt carrier. I haven't tried this for myself. but I just can't see the little bit of extra material making that much of a difference. A good muzzle break is probably your best bet to control recoil, especially if you are making a lightweight build. Always remember to use ear protection. |
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Yeah, I'm hearing little good about the polymer lowers, and to be honest, I doubt they're that much lighter. All the weight seems to be in the buffer and tube, which is the same it is on all rifles. Any ideas on a lightweight option for the tube and contents?
Tim |
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