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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - KeyMod handguards? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/17/2015 8:58:57 AM EDT
| So is every one going to the key-mod handguards now? I need some handguards now and was wondering if they are wave of the furture. |
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So is every one going to the key-mod handguards now? I need some handguards now and was wondering if they are wave of the furture. Magpul got butthurt and made their own attachment method; most manufacturers are branching into both keymod and m-lok versions. i do heart my keymod stuff. |
| I am seeing more accessories for the keymod than I am for the M-Lok system. I am also seeing more weapons carrying keymod handguards. I like Magpul products but keymod is here to stay. The market has already spoken no matter what the M-Lok fanboys say/wish. Personally, both my AR's have keymod handguards. |
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See if I have this right. K-mod or m-lok is just used to mount rails or stuff to the handguard without having to remove them. They're negative mounting platforms. IE, they use the "lack of space" for mounting, as opposed to picattiny which uses extra material to mount accessories. Basically, take a perfectly smooth handguard: To mount Keymod or Mlok you remove material from the handguard for the parts to attach into. To mount "rail/weaver/1913/picatinny" you need to ADD material to to the handguard to mount the parts onto. Negative mounting isn't new. Lots of companies have had this idea. However, they were all closed source and proprietary and often the only accessory that could be added was a rail segment. Keymod and Mlok are open source and ANYONE can make these mounting platforms without paying for them. Additionally, plenty of companies are making "direct mount" accessories that skip the need for a rail segment entirely to mount directly to the negative space. |
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By the time there's any real notion of what direction the market is headed, a successor system will already be introduced. Of course! We're already there, lantac made a new open source rail system. 
http://jerkingthetrigger.com/2015/03/16/lantac-kam-a-new-accessory-mounting-standard/ The locking system does seem better, but they managed to make it uglier than keymod. |
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So is every one going to the key-mod handguards now? I need some handguards now and was wondering if they are wave of the furture. I will not be making the transition, I'm sticking to quads. To each his own, I just don't like anything about the "key mod" idea. and see it as a solution for a problem that never existed. |
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I am seeing more accessories for the keymod than I am for the M-Lok system. I am also seeing more weapons carrying keymod handguards. I like Magpul products but keymod is here to stay. The market has already spoken no matter what the M-Lok fanboys say/wish. Personally, both my AR's have keymod handguards. That's the best explaination I have ever read so far. Here's my experence, I just bought a Daniels Deffence M4v11. It has the Keymod Rails on the three lower sides. I went searching for KeyMod accessories to mount to it. What I found was "backorder, out of stock, and Not available" for inventory at many places. However I noted the brand of the items that interested me. I went to thier websites and found many of the items I wanted. Everything is ordered and waiting to get here. It helps to have several quality brands embrace the KeyMod mount system. However that doesn't seem to have happend yet. They are more comfortable than PIC rails by far. |
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I will not be making the transition, I'm sticking to quads. To each his own, I just don't like anything about the "key mod" idea. and see it as a solution for a problem that never existed. Quoted:
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So is every one going to the key-mod handguards now? I need some handguards now and was wondering if they are wave of the furture. I will not be making the transition, I'm sticking to quads. To each his own, I just don't like anything about the "key mod" idea. and see it as a solution for a problem that never existed. Me too. My shit works with no bs. Picatinny has no disadvantage that is overcome with Keymod. I like robust attachment to the rifle, and easy robust attachment of accessories. Keymod is a step backwards in both departments. Keymod handguards are lighter. The weight savings comes with a penalty. |
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I will not be making the transition, I'm sticking to quads. To each his own, I just don't like anything about the "key mod" idea. and see it as a solution for a problem that never existed. Quoted:
Quoted:
So is every one going to the key-mod handguards now? I need some handguards now and was wondering if they are wave of the furture. I will not be making the transition, I'm sticking to quads. To each his own, I just don't like anything about the "key mod" idea. and see it as a solution for a problem that never existed. Me three. I have no problem with any of my Quad Railed Hand guards. They are plenty light and very solid. |
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I just don't like anything about the "key mod" idea. and see it as a solution for a problem that never existed. Problem: Quad rails were too wide, bulky, and heavy. Solution: To make a skinny handguard that took out rails where they aren't needed, drastically reduced the overall diameter of the handguard, and gave you the option of adding rail sections or mounting accessories to the few locations on your handguard where you DO need something. Not everyone wants or needs bombproof attachment of accessories. Some people don't use any, and they want the handguard to be as skinny and lightweight as possible (prime example being competition). Just because you don't have a personal need for them doesn't mean that there wasn't a demand for such a product. |
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Personal experience:
I have a Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) Keymod Modular Rail (KMR). The BCM Keymod Gunfighter Vertical Foregrip I installed is rock solid. However, the Impact Weapon Components (IWC) handstop and Thorntail mounts worked loose after one range session. Now, I didn't blue loctitie the IWC components, but the point of Keymod is to take things on and take them off quickly. I'm going to try the Thorntail again and see what happens, but I wasn't pleased by its initial performance. I'll probably end up buying the BCM Surefire Scout light mount since I think there might be a spec difference with the IWC and BCM. I have no personal experience of any note with M-Lock and of course none with the new Lantac system. |
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Personal experience: I have a Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) Keymod Modular Rail (KMR). The BCM Keymod Gunfighter Vertical Foregrip I installed is rock solid. However, the Impact Weapon Components (IWC) handstop and Thorntail mounts worked loose after one range session. Now, I didn't blue loctitie the IWC components, but the point of Keymod is to take things on and take them off quickly. I'm going to try the Thorntail again and see what happens, but I wasn't pleased by its initial performance. I'll probably end up buying the BCM Surefire Scout light mount since I think there might be a spec difference with the IWC and BCM. I have no personal experience of any note with M-Lock and of course none with the new Lantac system. No that is not the point of Keymod, the point of Keymod is modularity. Keymod handguards allow you to place accessories anywhere, while being considerably lighter and more ergonomic than a quad rail. Also if you are not using loctite on your mounting system, you are doing it wrong. My Keymod and M-Lok accessories all lock up just fine, and have all stayed in place. I prefer Keymod because I don't like dragging around a boat anchor. My 14.5" w/ 13" keymod weighs in at 5.7lbs, and my 16" w/15" keymod weighs 6.7lbs. |
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Lets see... Who manufactures (or assembles) a Keymod rifle: -KAC -Daniel Defense -BCM -Noveske -VLTOR -PWS -H&K -CMMG -Rainier Arms -Rebel Arms -Mega (you can build a mega) -Seekins (you can build a Seekins) Plus, there are a ton of companies that make Keymod rails and accessories. Now... Who manufactures (or assembles) a M-Lok rifle: -FN - - Keymod isn't going anywhere. A bunch of the big boys are on-board now so that will help steer the ship for a while. |
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Lets see... Who manufactures (or assembles) a Keymod rifle: -KAC -Daniel Defense -BCM -Noveske -VLTOR -PWS -H&K -CMMG -Rainier Arms -Mega (you can build a mega) -Seekins (you can build a Seekins) Plus, there are a ton of companies that make Keymod rails and accessories. Now... Who manufactures (or assembles) a M-Lok rifle: - - - Keymod isn't going anywhere. A bunch of the big boys are on-board now so that will help steer the ship for a while. You can add FN to the m-lok list. Don't know how many others. That just off top of my head. |
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Lets see... Who manufactures (or assembles) a Keymod rifle: -KAC -Daniel Defense -BCM -Noveske -VLTOR -PWS -H&K -CMMG -Rainier Arms -Mega (you can build a mega) -Seekins (you can build a Seekins) Plus, there are a ton of companies that make Keymod rails and accessories. Now... Who manufactures (or assembles) a M-Lok rifle: - - - Keymod isn't going anywhere. A bunch of the big boys are on-board now so that will help steer the ship for a while. There are no 'keymod Rifles" Its just a handguard... take it off and put a pic rail on it ...or an MLOK rail... does it become a Pic-rifle or a mlok rifle? lots of folks like the keymod system so i wont comment on its functionality but I cant stand the look of the keymod..looks like storage racks from Costco. I much prefer the look of M-Lok but still cant justify the expense as not enough advantage is gained from switching from my Giessele , Centurion or Parallax rails. If i was to build another rifle i would go with an mlok rail from ALG, Geissele, Parralax, M.I Industries Seekins SLR Aero Precision 2A Armament Magpul of course To name a few options. |
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Quoted: There are no 'keymod Rifles" Its just a handguard... take it off and put a pic rail on it ...or an MLOK rail... does it become a Pic-rifle or a mlok rifle? lots of folks like the keymod system so i wont comment on its functionality but I cant stand the look of the keymod..looks like storage racks from Costco. I much prefer the look of M-Lok but still cant justify the expense as not enough advantage is gained from switching from my Giessele , Centurion or Parallax rails. If i was to build another rifle i would go with an mlok rail from ALG, Geissele, Parralax, M.I Industries Seekins SLR Aero Precision 2A Armament Magpul of course To name a few options. Quoted: Quoted: Lets see... Who manufactures (or assembles) a Keymod rifle: -KAC -Daniel Defense -BCM -Noveske -VLTOR -PWS -H&K -CMMG -Rainier Arms -Mega (you can build a mega) -Seekins (you can build a Seekins) Plus, there are a ton of companies that make Keymod rails and accessories. Now... Who manufactures (or assembles) a M-Lok rifle: - - - Keymod isn't going anywhere. A bunch of the big boys are on-board now so that will help steer the ship for a while. There are no 'keymod Rifles" Its just a handguard... take it off and put a pic rail on it ...or an MLOK rail... does it become a Pic-rifle or a mlok rifle? lots of folks like the keymod system so i wont comment on its functionality but I cant stand the look of the keymod..looks like storage racks from Costco. I much prefer the look of M-Lok but still cant justify the expense as not enough advantage is gained from switching from my Giessele , Centurion or Parallax rails. If i was to build another rifle i would go with an mlok rail from ALG, Geissele, Parralax, M.I Industries Seekins SLR Aero Precision 2A Armament Magpul of course To name a few options. The "are" Keymod rifles... Meaning, the manufacturer thought enough about the system to build it info the rifle. Keymod adoption is wide-spread as evidenced by manufacturers (or assemblers) offering complete rifles including it. This means that the average guy off the street, with no build-specific tools can purchase one. This is an important factor that many do not consider. I get the fact that we could purchase a 1913, M-lok or Keymod rail and slap it onto our build. That said, if big name companies are incorporating it into a complete ready-to-go package, that just enables/accelerates mainstream adoption. |
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It is all going to depend on which direction the .mil goes. Right now, the proposed spec for the M4A1+ is quad rail. If Colt were to adopt one format or the other though, it could be game over for the other format.
M-Lok is also much newer than KeyMod. That explains a lot of the lack of aftermarket offerings right now. Personally, I prefer M-Lok simply from an aesthetic point of view and I'm a self-declared Magpul fanboy. |
I went with an SLR rail and it still uses picatinny up front
This gives you an idea of how flush the Keymod attachments are: Here is a snip from Magpul's collateral showing attachment to polymer and metal hand guards. Note that the Magpul attachment method protrudes significantly into the inner diameter.  Like I said earlier, not a big deal for most but it could be a show stopper for something similar to my 4" barreled .22LR.  |
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Me three. I have no problem with any of my Quad Railed Hand guards. They are plenty light and very solid. Quoted:
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So is every one going to the key-mod handguards now? I need some handguards now and was wondering if they are wave of the furture. I will not be making the transition, I'm sticking to quads. To each his own, I just don't like anything about the "key mod" idea. and see it as a solution for a problem that never existed. Me three. I have no problem with any of my Quad Railed Hand guards. They are plenty light and very solid. That's great but they still heavier than keymod or m-lok and not necessarily more solid. 
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I will not be making the transition, I'm sticking to quads. To each his own, I just don't like anything about the "key mod" idea. and see it as a solution for a problem that never existed. Quoted:
Quoted:
So is every one going to the key-mod handguards now? I need some handguards now and was wondering if they are wave of the furture. I will not be making the transition, I'm sticking to quads. To each his own, I just don't like anything about the "key mod" idea. and see it as a solution for a problem that never existed. Who said it was a solution? It's called evolution. They are slimmer and much lighter weight. Generally speaking those are considered improvements. |
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Me too. My shit works with no bs. Picatinny has no disadvantage that is overcome with Keymod. I like robust attachment to the rifle, and easy robust attachment of accessories. Keymod is a step backwards in both departments. Keymod handguards are lighter. The weight savings comes with a penalty. Quoted:
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So is every one going to the key-mod handguards now? I need some handguards now and was wondering if they are wave of the furture. I will not be making the transition, I'm sticking to quads. To each his own, I just don't like anything about the "key mod" idea. and see it as a solution for a problem that never existed. Me too. My shit works with no bs. Picatinny has no disadvantage that is overcome with Keymod. I like robust attachment to the rifle, and easy robust attachment of accessories. Keymod is a step backwards in both departments. Keymod handguards are lighter. The weight savings comes with a penalty. Lol What "penalty" are you imagining as you lay in bed at night? I've never had anyone handle/shoot my keymod railed rifles and tell me how lame they were because the were super light weight and didn't have sharp edges all over them. In fact they usually ask me to replace their pics with keymod or other modular type rails. |
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That key mod is still gawd awful fugly. Keep 'em coming fanbois. 
I imagine you are one of those guys who gets upset if the color of his polymer components don't perfectly match... Modular rails are about being light and streamlined wich are related to FUNCTION, not aesthetics... |
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I imagine you are one of those guys who gets upset if the color of his polymer components don't perfectly match... Modular rails are about being light and streamlined wich are related to FUNCTION, not aesthetics... Quoted:
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That key mod is still gawd awful fugly. Keep 'em coming fanbois.
I imagine you are one of those guys who gets upset if the color of his polymer components don't perfectly match... Modular rails are about being light and streamlined wich are related to FUNCTION, not aesthetics... Imagination - key mod Somehow those two don't seem to go together.
Key Mod....it's not about pretty, it's about function. If it works for shelving, it damn sure will work for guns. Book it. 
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Imagination - key mod Somehow those two don't seem to go together.
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That key mod is still gawd awful fugly. Keep 'em coming fanbois.
I imagine you are one of those guys who gets upset if the color of his polymer components don't perfectly match... Modular rails are about being light and streamlined wich are related to FUNCTION, not aesthetics... Imagination - key mod Somehow those two don't seem to go together.
I'm not sure what your point is but clearly every major manufacturer of AR components disagrees with you... So there's that. |
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I wasn't a fan of keymod until I shot a 14.5 lw barrel with a keymod rail on it. I've never found a quad rail that fit that nice. For me it's about function, not looks, though now that I've had one for awhile I don't think it looks bad anymore.
For a happy compromise DD has that lightweight rail that looks like a quad and keymod had a baby |
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Me three. I have no problem with any of my Quad Railed Hand guards. They are plenty light and very solid. Quoted:
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So is every one going to the key-mod handguards now? I need some handguards now and was wondering if they are wave of the furture. I will not be making the transition, I'm sticking to quads. To each his own, I just don't like anything about the "key mod" idea. and see it as a solution for a problem that never existed. Me three. I have no problem with any of my Quad Railed Hand guards. They are plenty light and very solid. If ya'll are happy with what you have, then you SHOULD stick with it. I went keymod on my latest AR, and have magpul handguards on my "old" one. I don't see a problem with ANY system, as long as it meets your needs. |
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I wasn't a fan of keymod until I shot a 14.5 lw barrel with a keymod rail on it. I've never found a quad rail that fit that nice. For me it's about function, not looks, though now that I've had one for awhile I don't think it looks bad anymore. For a happy compromise DD has that lightweight rail that looks like a quad and keymod had a baby All it takes is shooting an AR with a LW bbl and either a keymod, m-lok or other streamlined rail in order to "get it." I imagine the haters have never handled/shot them. |
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Key mod is just plain, unadulterated ugly when it isn't covered up by something. Reminds me of warehouse shelving stanchions....that concept has been around since forever. I avoid that fugly crap. :two cents: Your two cents is worth less than two cents. I think Keymod looks much more attractive than picatinny or M-Lok.  Oh no, you can't debate that now. I said it, so now it's fact. Fugly? Seriously, that's what your argument is based on? You're joking, right? I mean, that must be a joke. Because this is a website about guns. Aesthetics are personal taste. What picatinny rail do you own that's lighter and narrower than my pair of KMR rails?
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Redacted. Just how many corners does a circle have in your world? Also, how stupid do you think soldiers are? Precisely stupid enough to not understand Keymod accessories but to understand picatinny accessories? Wow, that's a narrow window, and remarkably insulting to troops. |
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Just how many corners does a circle have in your world? Also, how stupid do you think soldiers are? Precisely stupid enough to not understand Keymod accessories but to understand picatinny accessories? Wow, that's a narrow window, and remarkably insulting to troops. Quoted:
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Edit. Just how many corners does a circle have in your world? Also, how stupid do you think soldiers are? Precisely stupid enough to not understand Keymod accessories but to understand picatinny accessories? Wow, that's a narrow window, and remarkably insulting to troops. I came off a little hard. I'm sorry if I sounded harsh. As far as corners go, I'm talking about the inner transition from the hole to the key slot. Newer handguards do seem to have a slight radius there instead of a hard corner. But there are already examples of over-torquing, stripped out screws, mounting points coming loose, and damage to keymod slots and handguards. As the number of mounting points and screws increase, so do the possibilities of incidence. |
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I came off a little hard. I'm sorry if I sounded harsh. As far as corners go, I'm talking about the inner transition from the hole to the key slot. Newer handguards do seem to have a slight radius there instead of a hard corner. But there are already examples of over-torquing, stripped out screws, mounting points coming loose, and damage to keymod slots and handguards. As the number of mounting points and screws increase, so do the possibilities of incidence. Quoted:
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Edit. Just how many corners does a circle have in your world? Also, how stupid do you think soldiers are? Precisely stupid enough to not understand Keymod accessories but to understand picatinny accessories? Wow, that's a narrow window, and remarkably insulting to troops. I came off a little hard. I'm sorry if I sounded harsh. As far as corners go, I'm talking about the inner transition from the hole to the key slot. Newer handguards do seem to have a slight radius there instead of a hard corner. But there are already examples of over-torquing, stripped out screws, mounting points coming loose, and damage to keymod slots and handguards. As the number of mounting points and screws increase, so do the possibilities of incidence. Speaking totally from personal experience. I have had issues with picatinny and none with keymod. Snapped a Magpul Mbus pro rear sight, quite easily, while screwing it on tight after it coming loose. Stuck QD Eotech because it being one turn less tension made it slide on the rail. Snaging.. etc.. There is a keymod 12" FF rail with barrel nut thats at 8.2 oz. Thats less than the standard military (KAS RAS) carbine quad rail (without barrel nut and delta ring). Nothing wrong with picatinny, the point is M-lok and keymod are picatinny when and where you want it to be, or you can skip the weight and bulk, and go direct mount and more streamlined. |
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Imagination - key mod Somehow those two don't seem to go together.
Key Mod....it's not about pretty, it's about function. If it works for shelving, it damn sure will work for guns. Book it. http://www.cssyes.com/images/Pictures-Photos/Boltless/Industrial-Shelving/DRLP-particle-board-close-up.jpg
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That key mod is still gawd awful fugly. Keep 'em coming fanbois.
I imagine you are one of those guys who gets upset if the color of his polymer components don't perfectly match... Modular rails are about being light and streamlined wich are related to FUNCTION, not aesthetics... Imagination - key mod Somehow those two don't seem to go together.
Key Mod....it's not about pretty, it's about function. If it works for shelving, it damn sure will work for guns. Book it. http://www.cssyes.com/images/Pictures-Photos/Boltless/Industrial-Shelving/DRLP-particle-board-close-up.jpg
Clearly, if it's solid enough for industrial shelving then it's plenty sturdy enough for me. Thanks for making my point. |
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Your two cents is worth less than two cents. I think Keymod looks much more attractive than picatinny or M-Lok. Oh no, you can't debate that now. I said it, so now it's fact. Fugly? Seriously, that's what your argument is based on? You're joking, right? I mean, that must be a joke. Because this is a website about guns. Aesthetics are personal taste. What picatinny rail do you own that's lighter and narrower than my pair of KMR rails?Quoted:
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Key mod is just plain, unadulterated ugly when it isn't covered up by something. Reminds me of warehouse shelving stanchions....that concept has been around since forever. I avoid that fugly crap. :two cents: Your two cents is worth less than two cents. I think Keymod looks much more attractive than picatinny or M-Lok. Oh no, you can't debate that now. I said it, so now it's fact. Fugly? Seriously, that's what your argument is based on? You're joking, right? I mean, that must be a joke. Because this is a website about guns. Aesthetics are personal taste. What picatinny rail do you own that's lighter and narrower than my pair of KMR rails?We are wasting our time on him. He stumbled into a tech forum thinking it was a "does the color of magpul's coyote mbus match the color of the B5 coyote stock?" thread. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - KeyMod handguards? (Page 1 of 2)
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