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Posted: 9/20/2011 6:08:56 PM EDT
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I have been reading ar15.com for a several years now but this will be my first post/question. I am working on an SBR for LE patrol use; something in the 7 - 11in range. I have done all of the research and looked at the tech specs (ie barrel length to velocity/muzzle energy, accuracy, etc.) but now I am interested in others personal experiences for duty SBRs (not just duty but CQB/ room clearing rifles).
I also have been interested in hearing peoples reviews on the ADCOR BEAR and the PWS Diablo (I am looking into both). Sorry if I did not post this right. Thanks |
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Not all depts have the luxury of an armory. Some of the more rural depts around here give the officers an allotment for a patrol rifle rather than keeping issued weapons in stock. I personally would rather buy my own anyways since some depts. may think bushmasters are good enough.
To the original poster; do you plan on shooting suppressed or naked? If you are planning on shooting suppressed, which I would recommend since you plan on doing room clearing, most suppressor manufacturers will not warranty a can that is on a barrel shorter than 10 inches. Also keep in mind the .223/5.56 is VERY sensitive to barrel lengths up to 18" so the more barrel the better. What are you caliber requirements? What is your budget? Is this going to be a training gun or a throw it in your cruiser's trunk and forget about it? Either way if you are running a suppressor you are better off with a piston rifle. |
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I wouldn't go shorter than 10.3 for duty due to ballistics. +1 7.5" uppers can be very finicky. Not something that should be relied on when life is involved. Yes, there are some that run great, but I would really really think about it before making that decision, |
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I wouldn't go shorter than 10.3 for duty due to ballistics. +1 7.5" uppers can be very finicky. Not something that should be relied on when life is involved. Yes, there are some that run great, but I would really really think about it before making that decision, Yeah between ballistics and the gun running hard and tearing itself apart its not something I'd run on duty OP. You gain little going shorter than 10.3 and actually introduce more issues. I've run a Colt commando and have a 10.3 personal SBR abd love them both. For duty use in a urban or semi urban setting it's the best choice for LE. Im probably never going to need to make 400+ yard shots with my patrol rifle, and if i did i have a bolt gun for that anyway. So for me the trade off for a shorter more manvuerable gun is worth it. If you are rural then maybe a longer gun would be better for terminal ballistics at distance. Visit the SBR/Class 3 section to check out some more info about the shorties before making your descision. |
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I wouldn't go shorter than 10.3 for duty due to ballistics. Agreed, and 10.5"-11.5" if you're going to suppress. That SBR comes in mighty handy in tight quarters, but you obviously lose some of that portability when you add a can. Find mine here. |
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The first consideration should be department regulations, if any, to make sure you comply (you know, liability and all).
I am issued a Bushmaster 11.5" (with happy switch) and I can't recommend it. Mine has worked well but several others have had issues. Also, don't get a heavy under the handguards barrel like the Bushmaster, it makes it a heavy pig. The 11.5" is nice for smaller spaces and getting in and out of a vehicle, I wouldn't expect a big difference between 11.5" and 10.3". I think I would stick with 11.5", probably in a Colt LE933 though a BCM or LMT upper would be nice also (I think LMT is 10.3" though). No experience with either the BEAR or PWS. |
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My dept issued rifle is a colt commando. I also have a personal bcm 11.5". They both run awesome and I works highly recommend either. The work great out to the 300yds I've shot them at 11.5" is the perfect balance of compactness and performance. A Colt RO933 would be perfect... 
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I can carry my SBR on duty if wanted. But here's my thinking:
1. If I have to dump someone with it it's going to be sitting in some evidence room for God knows how long. Then all the time, effort, money I used to get the SBR is getting messed with. 2. I'm not SWAT and I'm not running through a fucking house so my 14.7" with permanently attached flash hider runs just fine. |
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I can carry my SBR on duty if wanted. But here's my thinking: 1. If I have to dump someone with it it's going to be sitting in some evidence room for God knows how long. Then all the time, effort, money I used to get the SBR is getting messed with. 2. I'm not SWAT and I'm not running through a fucking house so my 14.7" with permanently attached flash hider runs just fine. +1 on #1 +1 on #2 I carried my LWRC PSD for a while in my cruiser and an old timer advised me against saying, how would you like your shiney new $2k rifle to sit in an evidence room for who knows how long if you pull the trigger on duty. Point taken. Not saying you have to compromise on a budget for the tools to save your life, but it is a consideration when I am forking out at least $1000 for a quality rifle and it may potentially sit in an evidence locker for years to come and something I may never see again. Just my $.02 |
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My first patrol rifle was an EA lower with a Colt 16" upper. I SBR'd it and went to a BM 11.5 upper. It was quite heavy and with a K-9 I wanted lighter so I went to the CMMG 7.3 upper. Great small package, but clearly not the same class as the 11.5 upper. After I retired my K-9 I went to a Colt 11.5 LW upper and still run it today. Short is handier and will still cover most of the ground we will see in VT. If I still had my 7.3" I would like you try it out to compare it to my 11.5 on steel or any other target. There is a very clear difference on impact that shows a huge increase in velocity with the 11.5 barrel. Since the EA was preban I sold it to a fellow ARFCOMER behind the lines in NY. I started using my Colt 6921 lower (factory SBR and I sold the 14.5 upper) with the 11.5 upper. Just scratched the hell out of it (reason why I was hesitant to carry it and my EA functioned 100%) on a recent K-9 track.
If this is your first rifle I would recommend a 10.3 or 11.5 A3 upper. I would HIGHLY recommend a 1/7 barrel (mandatory in my opinion). This will give you a very solid foundation. Next talk to others about additional options and try them out if you can. Extra gimmicks/levers can only complicate things. If you want to review options or need further assistance let me know. I have about 13 years of time with a SBR and potential problems encountered (Colt M16/AR15 armorer as well). I also have 16 years LE in VT. Good Luck, Mike |
| What's the longest that any of you guys KNOW of a weapoon sitting in evidence after a GOOD shoot? All of the one's I'm aware of have been very quick turn arounds. I definitely wouldn't let that fear keep me from carrying a weapon that I'm comfortable/proficient with. |
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be sure of your depts policy, talk to the armorer and firearms instructor, buy quality
mine is built to carry at work i lapped the front of the upper and run 11.5" ion bonded stainless with a kx3 pig and 12" free float, i also run magpul sites and aimpoint comp m3 on a larue mount, mine has the osprey 416 with fz and the fz ch, hammer and bolt, i use the kns pins (cause I had a stock one walk on me before = cheap insurance), I run the skeletonized redi mag ( if all i can grab is the gun i have 60 rds ) and a tlr2s i have other items but this gives you the idea started as a mega machine upper and lower try to keep the flames to a minimum but from what i have read and been told by others in our line of work and instructors in classes you may want to stay away from the eotech optics, probs holding zero, killing batteries, just shutting off and won't power back up whatever you do just be safe bro 
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What's the longest that any of you guys KNOW of a weapoon sitting in evidence after a GOOD shoot? All of the one's I'm aware of have been very quick turn arounds. I definitely wouldn't let that fear keep me from carrying a weapon that I'm comfortable/proficient with. Our last one was 9 or so months with a Glock. AFTER it was cleared within a few weeks. In the past it's been as quick as it was cleared. If I ran one of my own SBR's I'd have little issue with it being kept for a while. At least I was alive to be mad about it
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What's the longest that any of you guys KNOW of a weapoon sitting in evidence after a GOOD shoot? All of the one's I'm aware of have been very quick turn arounds. I definitely wouldn't let that fear keep me from carrying a weapon that I'm comfortable/proficient with. Our last one was 9 or so months with a Glock. AFTER it was cleared within a few weeks. In the past it's been as quick as it was cleared. If I ran one of my own SBR's I'd have little issue with it being kept for a while. At least I was alive to be mad about it I agree 100%! |
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Thank you everyone for giving me their input. As far a being worried about my rifle being locked away in evidence; as long as I am whole I am not worried (better to be alive than dead). I have definitely rethought my process and think I am going to with a 10.5 inch piston system.
I have a lower I am going to use for the build but want a buy a complete upper (is this a poor choice?). I have looked into PWS and ADCOR BEAR. Any thoughts on these two (pros and cons?) Or is there another upper/company I should look into? Or build my own? Thanks |
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I run the Black Rifle Arms piston system in carbine length. I've talked to them on occasion and the owner has been very helpful. The last time I spoke to him he told me they have started a production run on the low profile gas blocks and should be available soon, that's if your looking to conceal a gas block under the hand rail.. Their bolt carrier is what sold me at first, they also post their material used which I like.
Here's a video of their 7.5 and 10.5 SBR Black Rifle Arms SBR Video BOLT CARRIER INFO http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z349/blackriflearmsgps/boltcarrier.jpg |
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What's the longest that any of you guys KNOW of a weapoon sitting in evidence after a GOOD shoot? All of the one's I'm aware of have been very quick turn arounds. I definitely wouldn't let that fear keep me from carrying a weapon that I'm comfortable/proficient with. My department holds weapons for two years. If everything is good and no civil suites filed, then the weapon is returned to the armory and back into inventory for issue. |
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If you're LE, shouldn't the department be furnishing the hardware? I also carry my own shotgun at work, we ran short and they won't buy more citing we don't use em so why should we buy more, thoughts are the same way on rifles Be happy you have that option. We get the "we haven't used them, so we'll never use them." BS. |
| I have worked at agencies that provide all weapons and equipment, but they are a minority. I am an agency administrator at a small state agency and a volutneer at the local sheriff's office. Neither of theselatter two have the budget to provide all weapons. We issue Glock 22 sidearms and M-14 rifles at the state and we have to provide our own sidearms at the sheriiff's department. They issue generic ARs to the full time deputies and a few of the vlounteers. Anythng "special" is on the officers nickle. |
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