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Posted: 3/10/2008 4:30:34 PM EDT
| After studying up on this forum and M4carbine.net I ordered an LMT M4 upper sight-unseen for $485. I usually don't take the risk, OK no one to blame but me, I accept that. The upper is now on one of my Bushmaster lowers. The fit is OK, but looser than the FN upper I had on it, ok I can deal with that. The fit of the handguards is very loose and floppy, ok I can deal with that, too, but this is not what I expected from one of the higher rated manufacturers. The finish of the LMT upper has flaws. Dalmation spots here and there - ok most of you will say so what. What bugs me is the poor finish around the charging handle locking grooves, especially on the right side - ok I can touch up to prevent corrosion. The machining below the Picatinny rail on the right side is downright shitty. Lots of swirl and the finish is bad in several spots. The dust cover was obviously rusty when it was parkerized. I wish I could post pics - I have the pics of this stuff but haven't paid yet so I can't post. I think I got a blem or a reject - are they doing that to people? OK I can deal with most of this and yes these don't cause a failure to fire, but geegads I could have got something like this out of Blackthorne for a lot less $$. Feel free to flame where you think I've screwed up here. The uppers I built off of A1 FN uppers with Shaw barrels look 10 times better, with much better overall workmanship and fit. I might send it back, I'll sleep on it tonight and look at it again in the morning in the sunlight. |
i also HAD an LMT upper, m4 ramp were not lined up properly and there was a big dip on the reciever, you could see were it was "repaired" and refinished. i called LMT and got some asshat that ask if the upper was functional? i wasn't impressed at all, traded to a friend that wanted a 10.5 upper for a colt 14.5 a3 upper i'm sure the LMT posse will be along to hammer me, but i don't really care. their CS me be great for others, i just felt let down by a "tier 1" company
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I realize your new here, but it is considered bad form to bring up a vendors name without even contacting them about the problem first. I would suggest taking the vendors name out of your first post and concentrate on your problems with the LMT upper. I know the vendor you are speaking of and if you would give him a chance I know he would take care of your problem. It does sound like an upper may have slipped through QC. Haven't really heard too many problems concerning LMT on this website. But hey, even Mercedes makes a dog occasionally. |
| Roger. Removed vendor - and you're right, he had nothing to do with it, and yes I contacted him and he's willing to swap when he gets some new stock in a month or so. I may or may not. This is not about him, it's about LMT. I own 4 AR's - an 80's Colt SPI 16" carbine, a Compass Lake Krieger barreled DCM-type 20", and 2 20" Shaw barreled "field" guns built off of Bushmaster lowers and FN uppers. Not bragging I've just got a few uppers to compare to sitting right here in front of me on my bench. The LMT may be superior in the way it performs, I don't know. What I'm seeing around the charging handle and in the inside may be coating, and not bare aluminum, like I say I am going to wait before I do anything. |
I wouldn't consider the product junk by any means. And it sounds like the original poster wouldn't either. As he said, it may perform better than what he already has so he will wait to form his opinion on that. If vendors chose not to ship anything that was less than 110% perfect they would all go broke. 99% of people wouldn't know the difference between "good enough" and "perfect" anyhow. |
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Buying from that dealer is not a risk, panheadache They will make that right, I guarantee it. I suspect the upper was one of many parts/components, etc. on a shelf and when your order came through - it was simply boxed and shipped. Should they have inspected it first to ensure 100% quality? Maybe, but given LMT's reputation and track record, it would be easy to skip that part. Send it back, and I predict a "praise of XX company's customer service" in a matter of days. (when a replacement is available) [rant on] My problem is more with the whole MAP BS. Those uppers sell for $485 from everyone who carries them. WT F happened to competition? It is borderline fixing, and it isn't the dealer's fault, as the manufacturers will cut them off if they don't play ball. We the consumer pay the freight..........Oh.......and I have done so 2 x on the LMT upper deal.  I guess if you want the good stuff, you pay the price.I suppose Customer Service is the measure of a company anymore, since the prices are the same from all of them. [/rant off] |
| I used the LMT website to find the closest dealer to me. They charged me exactly what the LMT website had the MSRP at which is what I expected. If it was more I would have shopped around. I'm talking lower though, not upper. Upper I got $110 off in a group buy still going on! |
he he. Not many people here would think you are bragging if you say you own 4 uppers. especially "FN" uppers- where did you get those? |
Personally I've had nothing but great things to say for them. Even before buying I sent a question over email that I'm sure was trivial and pointless to them. I expected an automated response that didn't actually answer what I asked. What I got was an actual person writing me back and he did so the next 12 (litterally) emails I had sent to him too. Ryan Johnson at LMT was spectacular to deal with. The questions I was asking were all about their lowers and I was trying to figure out which one I wanted. He actually talked ot the store I placed my order with before I even called them to make sure they knew which one I was talking to him about. |
An FN guy manning their booth at an Infantry Conference in Ft Benning turned me on to a source, heck I cant remember where that was, since it was years ago. They're out there. Try these guys: http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16910 |
i *thought that FN wasn't allowed to sell or didn't sell stuff/ parts in the USA, and that anything that was sold as "FN" was cosmetic or worse seconds. not absolutely sure on that, but it is what i remember |
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Not that a company can't have problems, but I picked my LMT Defender MRP yesterday. No wiggle what so ever and straight out of the box my friend and I were on target at 300 plus yards with iron sights. I am thinking LMT's QC is top notch and your issue is the exception and not the rule. |
Gee thanks, I feel a lot better knowing that (not!). |
| I'm going to shoot it some. I pulled it out this evening and did some surgery on it. The guards are just a poor match to the cap - I bent around on it and got it to fit a little tighter, maybe. The delta ring spring is a LOT weaker than any other of my guns and is exacerbating everything. I swapped out the dust cover for a better one. I put one of those damn little accuwedges in there and it tightened up the fit, but I always lose them in the field, so I'll be doing other things to tighten up later on maybe. As far as the finish, well, all assembled and stand back and squint and you can pretend it's not there. Range time is Sat morning so we'll see how it goes. I don't know, ya'll, I just don't see the value, maybe it'll blow holes in the x ring like Spocks' phaser and surprise me. Later.... |
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I bought two "Shot show special" lowers three years ago. The one I kept has grind marks on both sides. The one I sold to a friend of mine had what looked like a crack around the rear takedown pin hole, dye penetrant testing showed it wasn't a crack. So we decided to keep them instead of dealing with the assholes at LMT. They said that I would have to send the lowers in for evaluation, which would take "about 4-6 weeks". If they found that the flaws affected the performance of the lowers they would send new lowers ONLY TO THE ORIGINAL VENDOR THAT LMT SOLD THEM TO!!! This meant He would then have to send them to my FFL and he would have to log them as new transactions. The law is that I can LEGALLY send a lower that I own to LMT and they can legally send them, or replacements directly back to me, but they said they can't legally do it. I even talked to the stupid bitch CSM at LMT, we went to the ATF website together and I showed her exactly where the law states that they could do this. Keep in mind that I had been professional and polite, when I told her their customer service was weak she told me "We make more money on grenade launchers, so we're not too concerned about retail rifle sales" WTFO? Both uppers I bought at the same time had the pathetic skinny ear front sight bases as pictured above that LMT is famous for. I kept the parts because I wanted shooters and they work, but the defects will affect resale on all of them. The vendor contacted LMT, but they wouldn't help him out either and he moves a lot of their stuff. I did get a deal from his siince I bought two uppers and lowers at the same time. Bottom line: 1. I think LMT uses "Shot Show specials" to clear out their rejects. 2. LMTs customer service SUCKS! 3. LMTs Civvy QC is questionable, at best. But as you can tell, I've gotten over it and moved on. 
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That is pretty arrogant....I would fire them on the spot if I heard something like that, especially from a manager. As distasteful as that is, it is pretty common with manufacturers. Alot manufacturers CSR's don't like hearing from the end user becaus they are a nuisance (in their eyes) and they feel they are doing the wholesalers/resellers job. Anytime there is a change in company policy the CSR's get pissy. They take on a new territory, product line, clients someone gets pissy the CSRs and warehouse gets pissy. |
Same situation here. 
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Reason I asked. 1. If you purchased the item with a Credit Card you can dispute the charge for 180 Days. 2. Some Credit Cards exttend warranty periods....not that it should be an issue. 3. If you made the purchase through a local dealer they should have checked the item prior to handing it over to you. 4. If the item was tranferred from LMT to you FFL, the FFL's only responsibity is to sign the item over to you. 5. If these are mail order items direct to you from LMT then maybe there is a pattern of sticking someone with seconds as you have put it. |
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Ive had a few LMT uppers over the past few years- never dealt with their CS people though, and never had any major issues. - Their FSB ears could use some work as far as consitinency goes. I a while ago I bought two uppers at the same time from the same shipment, and one had very thin ears and one had thicker ears. If it wasnt such a pain in the ass I would swap FSB's for Colt F marked units which IMO are quite a bit nicer. Doesnt affect anything really but its just a skosh of OCD kicking in. - I wish they came with front side sling swivels like Colts do. I end up having to buy them for 20 bucks each and mount them, and then remove the bottom one the upper comes with. Overall all my LMT stuff has worked, and worked well as has most other people's. Most people get very good accuracy out of them, and I cant recall a single failure Ive had... |
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I don't know the size of Noveseke or LMT , but smaller companies tend to have better service and are more consumer oriented. Another thing. If you purchase with a credit card, the shipper 'MUST' have a signature at delivery or they have no proof the item was delivered. |
| I will tell you about my experiance with a LMT upper that I purchased. I am use to the quality of KAC and Colt I was disappointed at first with my finish of my upper of the LMT I received. After having it for a few years now it has become my most prized rifle and my favorite. It is 100% reliable and is a great shooter. I am not saying it could be better but I would purchase another one with no regrets. |
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I didn't mention the vendor because I don't want to drag anyone's name in the mud, he was fine and I still deal with him all the time. To me the problems were cosmetic only and don't affect the performance of the weapons. It hurts the resale, but I will probably keep mine, I've got it pimped out the way I like it and it shoots fine. Besides, these things get wear and scratches anyhow. It's their attitude that is unbelievable and I do think ian upper or lower should be near perfect when new. I would consider an LMT again if they come out with a piston design that holds up over time. I'll just ask the vendor to inspect it before shipment and tell them that I will return it if it has crappy parts or finish. Everyone needs to stop talking about Noveske's, I Will a Colt FSB work? Unless I'm mistaken, Colt uses taper pins, LMT uses straight pins. |
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