AR Sponsor
Posted: 6/1/2007 10:26:30 AM EDT
|
I have been shopping for a BUIS for my AR and among a number of sources I have been checking out Mateck sights on E-bay. I realize that much of what is offered is foreign made knock offs or meant for use with Airsoft. Which is generally very clear based on the $29.95 price or place of origin. My question though is are the Matech sights legit? I thought that they were only sold to the government, is that true? or are they now available for the civilian market as well? There is one particular seller -- "peru_paintballer" -- that has them available most often. Thoughts? ETA -- just to be clear, I mean legit in regard to being Matech products rather than airsoft knock offs. As well as whether they are sold on the civilian market. |
Mmmmmhhmmmm, and now that it is proven that they are being knocked off, with the real ones previously being very hard to find used, and the real ones still not being sold openly at any legit retail outlet, how much money does anybody want to bet the sudden influx is mostly clones being sold as the real deal? I am not a big fan of clones, China, or the shitbags here that sell them and or support the act. So unless any of you do, I would steer clear of all the Matech's out there right now until you can really figure out the BUIS' true origins, for their sudden availability is very suspect. 
|
EDIT- I have no proof the seller did not posses the item legally. Their are several dealers selling Matech. ie. CMMG and Oberland arms. I would never file a report stating there is criminal activity when I have no proof. That would be reckless in my opinion. If there is proof the said items were sold illegally then I will surrender it to the proper authorities. Until then I will use it for the intended purpose. Anyone who says that is immoral can jump in a lake because your OPINION is that they are gov. property, my opinion is they are not or I would not have purchased it DAMNIT!
|
If that in fact was the case, the shipper lied to you and you are in possession of stolen government property. And as a tax payer he/she is screwing you and I, and since you have the information it would be your civic duty to pass that ebay link on to this e-mail address. [email protected] The folks at that link take that very serious, and would have it handled from there, quickly. |
Oberlandarms.com Just waiting for the fist one to blame Oberlandarms selling stolen US military property ... 
|
Do they have them in stock? Impact guns is selling a SCAR, but I bet they don't have one. |
|
FWIW, CMMG offers the MATECH as an option with their uppers on the website, for $145. Not sure if they actually have them in stock, and people have ordered them, but they are there for order, with a price point, from a reputable vendor, despite whatever flame wars have gone on. They have been selling uncomfortably frequently, and unusually cheap lately on the EE. I won't speculate on that. ~Augee |
O.K., not a single source in the United States openly sells them. So with the Matech being a U.S. made BUIS, and currently used by the U.S. Military, explain how nobody here could get them, or sell them, yet the market is suddenly flooded with them from "parts unknown". I will be the first to admit the BUIS has a definite market through interest shown here, and I would buy a couple if they were actually sold, and not clones or something stolen that short changes our Warfighters. 
|
|
I guess if I lived in Germany I could buy one? WTF? Does someone have the real dope on this? A legit German company advertising a product, made in the US, that is not able to be sold to civilians in the US. It's either a bullshit ad, or just another example of something else that is wrong with our country. Sorry for the rant |
|
I think some of you guys are really looking too hard at this and making too much out of it. The MATECH I am sure is considered an "expendable" item and as such is probably not controlled by hand receipt in the military supply system. With that said, I am sure many units have over bought and ordered these sights with many not used because other better sights are being employed. Not to excuse pilfering but that has happened since the days of George Washington's Continental Army made camp at Vally Forge to present time and will continue to happen in any "war" time enviroment. I doubt anybody on the ground in Iraq has died by not having a BUIS fail to show up in the supply system. Hootbro |
It's like being a little bit pregnant. Expendable or not, stealing is stealing. |
Ah……I’m gonna call BS on that one. When I ETS’d in 1993 I had in my possession 7 brand new government issue 30-rd magazines. When I out processed the arms room DID NOT WANT THEM BACK. What was I to do, chain my self to the arms room door and insist that they take back the mags? If the MATECH BUIS’s are considered expendable items and not Hand Receipted and are not asked for when a soldier ETS’s or PCS’s or rotates out of Iraq then what is he to do? Like I said these topics turn into pissin’ matches because people like to spout off about “stolen .gov property”.  I’d hate for you guys to see what we disposed of in our burn pits in Iraq before we returned from Desert Storm. And maybe I should return that “stolen” pilots survival knife that was given to me by our Aviation Life Support Equipment NCOIC before I deployed. I never signed for it, so it must be “stolen”.
|
While true on a moral level, it is unrealistic to expect it to be an ideal world to live in. In my six years of honorable service in the U.S. Army from 1987-1992, the supply system I dealt with at both a maintenance level and unit level was an eye opener. I learned that no matter what you had physical possession of, if it was not on a hand receipt for turn in, nobody cared what you did with it. You can stand on a moral high horse and say you will turn in that MATECH BUIS or whatever other item you have that has no hand receipt, but 9 times out of 10, that supply Sergeant or supply Officer is not going to want to do the extra paperwork to return it back to the supply system for reissue especially if it is an expendable item. With all the regs and procedures the military has, it still a reflection of the greater society in that all people are lazy to some degree with the military no better in some respects. I have seen many supply units just give out everything to get it off "their" books not caring what the end use of the item is or where it goes. I ETS with a Kevlar helmet because my roommate got kicked out in 72 hours due to personal theft and death threats to others. His TA-50 gear was missing his Kevlar helemet but they just docked his last pay check for it and moved on. Since it was satisfied by the payroll deduction, when I later tried on 4 seperate occasions to turn it in, the supply system just throws up on itself with rules and regs making it not worth my time or the time of the supply person. The simple fact of anybody that has served, once the TO&E is covered, anything left is extra that nobody wants to be bothered with for accountability. Hootbro |
|
Clinton sell military secrets to China, those in office commit treason daily, never a word. Some funky items with no real meaning, except tax payers get some kick back, ones think of it as stealing.  I got a MATECH, real deal, no paintball clone, I feel no remorse what so ever. Every man for himself. TG |
And that in itself can be a pain in the ass! Just like the OE-254 Antenna that was not on our TO&E that my CO wanted so bad. One day it suddenly appeared and years later when it was no longer needed it disappeared just as quickly. 
|
The point I am trying to make and maybe QUIB, is that the system is not always black and white on returning equipment back in, especially non-hand receipt type stuff. Not all the excess gear you see out on the civilian market is "stolen" as you like to put it. Some maybe but not all for the most part. Anybody that has served and dealt with a military supply system would understand. If you want a good example of abuse of the supply system, read this article. www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,277232,00.html |
| Putting aside the dispute as to whether the Matech BUIS, is or isn't legitimately found on the market, how would you guys rate its performance and quality? Is it a well-liked piece of equipment by our troops in Iraq/Afganistan? I'm just curious whether our troops have a good sight or merely one provided by the lowest bidder? |
The pivot pin on mine migrated out during firing, releasing the sight. It would not remained stowed. I replaced it with an ARMS #40L-P. |
|
ironically... the sight itself... is just not that great........ I agree with Hootbro... I spend over 20 with Uncle Sugar and know well how the system works. But what I hate are those who take advantage of the system and treat it like a victimless crime. In the early stages of the war... BUIS were scarce... and not all units had them....So to say "No one died or got hurt" or every man for himself is bullshit........ All wars create this theft..... what elevates it is the Internet... makes it a name less face less crime.... How many of you would have bought a Matech if you had to drive out past the main gate at Ft Stewart or Ft Hood and "meet" a guy who was selling it out of the trunk of his car???? Think that guy with the username "11Bkiller" who has his address listed as "Fayetviille S.C" and is selling Like New Body Armor with the plates.. just got that from his Supply Sgt and was told to keep it??? Sure I know .. big difference between Body Armor and a BUIS... but where do you draw the line???? I would guess that at this stage of the conflict... we went from "No one has a BUIS" to every unit has a Bag full sitting in the ARMS room waiting to be handed out like candy. There a WAY better BUIS's out there..... and actually... I am glad at the Knock offs are out there.. serves those bucket-heads right who think they should be able to get a BUIS for $25 |
|
Its not a really controlled item just like the personal stuff when coming home. I still have mags, BDU's DDU's ACU's whatever.... the MATECH....hmmmm.. hardly saw it...but the bigger issue was the rumor spread around that it was easy to break if one tries to install it and its better to let the armory deal with it. I don't know....what is a good answer to this because.....there wasn't a 4900 for alot of stuff being issued. Same thing with some units with the Aimpoints and KAC RAS AND m4 and m5 rails. you'll see it alot.....and thats that. Now if we are dealing with body armor and stuff like that..of course there will be 4900's for that. I have read, heard and talked to guys that have issues with S1's because of losing their interceptor vest in some firefight or having it damaged. More paperwork for the e5 or e6's....lovely......  All I have learned is that unless anything is bolted down..it will grow 4 legs and walk away. Stuff was stolen out of secured rooms in bases and places I have been. Had my truck broken into at one place....and it was sad......mostly everyone telling me to go pound sand.... thank god for insurance..... Believe me...with the advent of moral waivers being handed out like candy in the military....we really don't have a lot of kids with straight moral compasses anymore. BELIEVE ME |
11BDad
My bad.. but that's not the point...Which you obviously missed....
|
|
I'm not sure exactly how it is with the MATECH's. For the record, I've got three, one is new in wrap (project forthcoming), and two are mounted. All bought off the EE here. Love 'em. I've also been issued them before while "in the school house." Had to tell everyone how to mount them, and not to overtorque them, so no one broke the screw off, because I was practically the only one who had ever seen them before. Didn't stop about three people from doing it anyways. The point is, however, when the arms room got them, they got them in a big box. They handed them out in a plastic bag, not some sort of issue plastic bag, but what looked like a bag from someone's trip to the Shopette. Armorer may or may not have counted them when he tossed them in the bag, but there were extras left over, even after they replaced the ones with the broken screws. No one signed for them, and they weren't controlled in any manner. At the same time, the broken ones were tossed. They were officially useless, once someone fucked them up, by not reading the instructions. No paperwork involved. Had someone wanted to pilfer a couple, it probably would have gone unnoticed. But it also wouldn't have mattered. There was enough for everyone, and everyone got one, and ones that were not mounted would have either gone unused, or have been disposed of. In those circumstances, under those conditions alone, yes, those are still government property, and should not be sold privately. However, I can see how it would happen. On the other hand, the big safety kick nowadays is eye-pro. Eye-pro gets issued pretty much everywhere now. At Basic, at RFI, at AIT, it seems like almost any time you go through CIF anymore, you pick up another pair of UVEX's. I think I've got about three pairs right now. Those UVEX's have been given to me, and I'm more or less forced to take them. I even sign for them sometimes, but they're not accepted, even unopened, new in package, to be turned in. They're mine to keep. Personally, though, I've only got one set of eyes, I don't need three identical sets of the same eyepro. And crappy eyepro, at that. I wear eyeglasses, and almost never use any issued eyepro. I sometimes keep one pair of UVEX's on hand, just in case, but they really are not comfortable for me, no matter how well they are adjusted. I will probably end up buying my own eyepro, COTS, in a little while now. Then, my one pair of UVEX's that sees even minimal use, will not get used at all. They were issued to me, but they were also given to me. Don't give them back, keep them, our gift, don't need 'em? Who cares? You got a pair already? Eh, take another! That's pretty much the way they're issued. If there was a hot market, and people willing to pay good money for "milspec eyepro," would it really be wrong, either morally or legally for me to unload those UVEX's? Others may say otherwise, but I see nothing wrong with it. For the time being, however, there doesn't seem to be much money in UVEX glasses. How does this relate to a MATECH BUIS? While I don't know every situation, I could easily see getting a weapon issued to me, no paperwork for any subcomponent, with a MATECH, or some other BUIS, already attached to it (for example, you do have to sign seperately for an optic mounted to a weapon, that never comes off). You go to draw some gear, and they hand you another BUIS to put on your weapon. You've already got one... you don't need one... they don't want it back, and you probably didn't sign for it, and even if you did, they still don't want it back. So, you've got an extra BUIS. Well, whatever, then you're about to get deployed. So they give you even more gear, you might get another BUIS, again, same deal. Then who knows, you might go through RFI again, or something, and you get another freaking BUIS. Sure, back in the day, there weren't many BUIS's available, some people didn't get them, and some went without. So, RFI picked up, and started including them in their basis of issue. That was back then, however. Now even TRADOC can get BUIS's through the regular supply system, and the Army's got thousands of them, all over the place. Mostly everyone that needs one, has one, and most M4's now come with them on already. But every now and again, you may still be handed another one, that they don;t want back. Sure, they may expect it to go on a weapon, just like they expect those UVEX's to go on your face. But if you've already got one, and you've practically been forced to take it, and you can't give it back, it's either a lump of useless metal, or what the hell, you can do whatever you want with it. Mount it on your own personal weapon? Sell it to someone else who wants one? The Army has already disowned it, and given it to you. I suspect that is why there are so many of them available now, as well. The Army's been issuing BUIS's for a while now, and where they are issued, they may well be oversaturated with MATECH's. Does that mean there aren't some National Guard units out there that still don't have the BUIS's they want? Possibily, but it's the Army's job to get them to them, not the soldiers who've gotten issued three of them, and can't give them back. Again, I may be wrong, that's just my theory, and a shaky one at that, I won't lie, I thought about that fact while I was originally typing a much shorter response. But it's pretty possible, given the current situation. And RFI's a very new thing, also, there are a lot of things in the military that never change, and traditions that stand fast, but there's also a lot that's different nowadays. Don't assume because you were in the Army ten years ago, that things are still just like they were back then. Thank you for your service, and thank you for paving the way for us to follow in your footsteps, but remember that things change, often much faster when conditions are more volatile. Let's put it this way, a KISS carbine to me has an RAS (with the option to mount a VFG), a BUIS, and an optic, and hopefully a light. That's pretty minimal to me. Off the soapbox... ~Augee Pssssssst! Anyone want to buy a set of real MIL-SPEC USGI BALLISTIC EYE PROTECTION? super rare...... 
|
|
hmmm I'll trade you...the extra PT's I got in size XL NOT WORN for that super rare glasses?? we 2 5 Bravos are bottom runners in the chain dude.... Support your IT geek..... Won't YOU make a 25b HAPPY that's my usual begging pitch being the only It guy in the whole FOB....  h |
|
Augee that is a great explanation. (need spell check) You have hit it right on the head. I walked into my unit yesterday and looked at the tuppeware box full of Matech sights sitting there unsecured. Your right, you can't give those things back. I know it sounds bad to guys who have never seen the situation but what are you supposed to do. The Army classifies stuff in different ways and normally when its a un-accountable item that means the Army considers it expendable and they don't want it back. I have so much gear that was issued with the intent of me keeping it forever. I use it until I don't need it and hang on to it for 6 months. If I don't use it in six months I give/sell/trade it to someone who can for something that I need. BTW you can tell a real matech by looking underneath the sight. You will see MaTech machined into the bottom. |
AR Sponsor