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Posted: 6/1/2004 12:26:48 PM EDT
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here is a link for a nice dot scope, I have one in the mail, Ill let you know what I think. www.tulsafirearms.com/online-catalog/gsc/online-catalog-Red_Dot_Sights.htm |
| Go with the Hakko BEd-24 on the flattop or check out the Tacpoint listed with the russian scopes sold at www.nightvisionweb.com. I own both and have been pleased with the results. both are inexpensive and serve there purpose. Although probably not as durable as ACOGs and Aimpoints, they are decent sights for those looking to buy on a budget like me. |
Many times I've tried to find the best deal on things and ended up spending more $ in the long run because I get the "best deal," use it, and then realize it's not the "best deal" after all. Buy quality and buy once. Get an Aimpoint or an EOtech -- but don't ask which one is better because it's been debated to death on this forum.  Spend the extra $150 and get one of these quality red dots. You won't be sorry later. |
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I've got OKOs for $195 shipped, or I've got a lightly used one for $160 shipped. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=23&t=168649&w=searchPop -Cory |
| Thanks for all the replys, now I have more questions, by looking at all the different sight options, I have came to the conclusion that I like the style of the hakko,oko,eotech,etc. The low stream line look with just a piece of glass at the end. I hope Im wording all this right. The bigger aimpoints and such just seem too big to me. Im trying to keep this project as light as I can. Now of these type of sights, where the dot or cross hairs is projected on the lens, how do they all rank and are they easy to co witness.Which is easier to do it with, a flat top or through a carry handle. Thanks all. |
While I frequently run into that exact situation as being true, I can tell you that it is NOT true in this case. OKO and Hakko ARE quality optics. The dot on the OKO is the clearest and roundest I've ever seen. While they wouldn't stand up to military abuse, they are PLENTY good stuff for us range rovers. For the carry handle "Z" mount, I'd say OKO because it's my favorite, having the clearest dot, weighing less than almost ANYTHING else, but being too low for my personal tastes. The height gives you an "absolute co-witness" on a flat-top (putting the front sight in the middle of the optic rather than the lower third). With a "Z-mount", it's a bit higher than the flat-top, so it's a better co-witness. As a note, the BED24 is TOO LONG to fit on a carry handle with ANY BUIS except the ARMS#40, and even then you can't use the reticle selector. It is a PERFECT co-witness though, and I find the multiple reticles very useful at longer ranges. Adding a forend with rails fixes the problem as you can mount it farther forward. The BED35 is too low for a comfy co-witness, same as the OKO. One last thing... I know you guys here on AR15.com are "high speed" types who have experience with all the right gear, and know what's "best"... BUT Let me tell you this... The range I shoot at is on Ft. Benning. SEVERAL times, I have been asked by enlisted men to fire my weapon in order to check out my optic. In EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE when the enlisted man only had experience on Uncle Sam's dime, didn't own his own AR15, didn't visit ARFCOM, and didn't know what was "best" or what was "in", they ALL, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM said they liked my OKO better than their issued Aimpoint. They said they could see the target better, and they could see the dot better. Now I know that's heresy, and you guys are gonna go nuts over that statement, but you can't change those experiences no matter how much you object. Those guys didn't "know" that Aimpoint was the best, all they knew is what they had shot and what they were shooting then. Is an Aimpoint a sturdier sight? HELL YES! Would I go into combat with an OKO? HELL NO! But I can tell you that, if you offered me one Aimpoint, or TWO OKO's for free, I'd take the OKO's. The field of view is better with the OKO, and I don't have any use for "waterproof to 500 meters" or "built like a tank". The Aimpoint and EOTech are BETTER than the OKO, NO DOUBT... but in areas that I have no use for them to be better. The OKO has shown me that it is just as good as the Aimpoint in the areas that I NEED it to be, and EVEN BETTER in a couple... (unobstructed field of view and super-light weight). |
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The OKO has a 4 MOA dot and 8 MOA type, while the Hakko has four different reticles in each sight, with dots ranging from 1 MOA to 4 MOA. The OKO has a protective hood that can be put over the sight, costs about $60?, and is not in stock right now, that I know of. The Czech police and SF use the OKO with hood on it. I am in same situation as you. Would have just got the EO, but with none of the new F models being available to buy at this time, I have been looking at the OKO and Hakko. |
| So, if I understand right the oko or the hakko bed-24 will "absolute co witness" on a flat top but the hakko bed-24 needs to be mounted on a rail on the forarm to use all of its features. I think Im getting close to understanding all this, please be patienth.gif. I am looking for an absolute co witness with the dot right on top of the front post, which optic is the easiest to do this with, wheather on a flat top or carry handle. Right now I can go either way, but, if I have to purchase too many addons to make a certain type co witness, I could use the money for another type of optic. I just want to make sure I understand which ones will co witness with the dot on the top of the front post, I want that more than anything. Thanks to all who have responded,please keep it coming.Thanks-Randy |
No. The OKO without the SC4 protective hood/QD mount will "absolute" co-witness which means that when you look through the irons, they will be in the middle of the optic. "Lower third" co-witness means just that. When you look through the irons they will appear in the lower third of the optic's window. WHile nobody expects you to use the irons along with the dot, what this means is with an "absolute" co-witness, if you use a FIXED BUIS like the LMT, when you look OVER the rear sight to use the optic, the red dot is going to be in the UPPER third of the window. With the "lower third" position, when you look over the rear sight, the red dot will be in the MIDDLE of the optic giving a much less crowded view. Some don't mind this, some don't even notice. I did. Using the SC4 mount with the OKO puts it up higher like the BED24. Oh yeah, did I mention that the OKO is NOT QD without the SC4 mount? (SC4 mount costs about $85 these days IIRC) So the two together will run you about $285-ish 
Yes - Because of the design of the clamps, it can be mounted with the front clamp on the forend and the rear clamp on the flat-top which keeps you from having it all the way out front. The Hakko is made of aluminum, is already QD, and does not need any additional mounts or covers. OH yeah, and it comes with a neat rubber lens cover for storage.
That's what ARFCOM is here for.
Those two things are NOT the same... A co-witness will give you the dot on top of the FSP when looking through the rear irons regardless of whether it's an "absolute" co-witness or a "lower third". The only difference is how much glass the front sight post takes up. Here's a TERRIBLY crude drawing I made to try and explain the two. 
I really think that if you can handle the "absolute" co-witness of the OKO, and the lack of QD, then that would be the way to go, especially if you weren't going to purchase a forend anyway. Just my personal opinion from experience... if you need the SC4 mount to make you happy with the OKO, then look elsewhere. $200 for the OKO and $85 for the SC4 is about $20 MORE than a Bushnell Holosight, and about $15 LESS than the EOTech 511! I don't have much experience with the ATN, sorry. I viewed the ATN side by side with the Hakko and decided that the ATN had a lesser quality reticle image so I bought the Hakko. |
How to they rank? #1 EOTech (by far) #2 OKO (Good budget sight) (the rest are 'cheap' and I won't consider them). I also like the Trijicon Reflex - which doesn't use a battery which has its ups & downs. The EOTech will cowitness on a flattop, and with the proper (PRI) gooseneck mount will cowitness from a carry handle AR-15. The OKO has a proprietary goosneck which allows it to cowitness with a fixed carry handle upper. I don't know if they will cowitness on a flattop (but they do have built in fixed sights that will work at CQB distances). The EOTech has the built in aluminum sheild to protect it from bumps, the OKO has an optional steel sheild that you can install to protect it. The EOTech is as close to parrallex free as you can get (as long as you can see the enire 65moa ring), the OKO isn't as good (but its not bad). The EOTech is self contained and if you break the lens it will still function. The OKO (and the others like it) project a beam onto the lens. Damage the OKOs lens and you're SOL - bock the emitter hole of the OKO (hakko, c-more, Reflex etc) with mud or snow and the dot disapears. The EOTech 512 & 522 can be run on common AA batteries (Lithium, Alkaline, or NiMH rechargeable); the OKO (and others) run off of watch batteries. The OKO is significantly lighter (less than 3oz OKO) than the EOTech (11.5oz for the AA model) - especially when the OKO doesn't have the optional steel sheild. The OKO is slightly cheaper than EO Tech if you buy the base 4moa dot model and the steel sheild/quick detach mount. Alone the OKO is significantly less expensive. Its more expensive if you buy the OKO Military model (which has a pressure switch option) and the steel sheild vs the Military version of the EOTech (the 552). The EOTech has a longer battery life (especially the new Ref F model - it was closer with the older Rev E model). |
ME TOO.......... $284.00 brand new. Wait and look HAPPY HAPPY with my 511 |
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