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Posted: 9/17/2012 9:56:59 AM EDT
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M16A1 explodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5bs6epOYLw&feature=related "A friend shooting a M16 A1 when a squib load gets a round fired behind it. Not many times does this get caught on tape. Excuse the unstable video, it was copied from an old VHS tape." |
| Think it's been mentioned before. First time I've viewed video but this wasn't the first time something like that has happened. Thanks for posting. Not really protocol for handling a weapon that didn't go bang. Somebody is surely sick from this experience and it could have been much worse. Really should have been cleared, unloaded and thoroughly investigated. Would have saved some grief. Sad day in the M-16 world. |
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Squib load
A squib load, also known as a squib round, pop and no kick, or just a squib, is a firearms malfunction in which a fired projectile does not have enough force behind it to exit the barrel, and thus becomes stuck. This type of malfunction can be extremely dangerous, as failing to notice that the projectile has become stuck in the barrel may result in another round being fired directly into the obstructed barrel, resulting in a catastrophic failure of the weapon's structural integrity. Causes Squib rounds are possible in all black powder and smokeless powder based projectile weapons. They are most often caused by negligence in the powder loading process (insufficient or no powder load), or a failure of the primer to ignite the powder at all. While this occurs most often because of handloading by inexperienced reloaders, squib loads are known to occur even in reputable factory brands. Other causes include deformed bullets and attempting to fire a bullet which is slightly too large for the barrel, although both of these scenarios would more likely result in some variety of catastrophic failure instead of a squib. Diagnosis Signs that a squib round has occurred include: a much quieter or otherwise unusual-sounding discharge noise, lighter or nonexistent felt recoil force, discharge of smoke from the ejection port instead of the barrel, and a failure of the action to cycle (in semi-automatic firearms). That is why it is also referred to as "pop and no kick". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squib_load |
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in the related video, He didnt want to shoot cheap wolf ammo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbHNfkkLJP8&feature=related |
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I think it's worth pointing out that infantry training in the early and mid 90s taught Tap/Rack/Bang in case of a failure to fire. In the 1980s we were taught SPORTS except if it was a "pop, no kick". In the case of a "pop, no kick" we were taught to clear the rifle and await assistance/further guidance. |
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we were taught to clear the rifle and await assistance/further guidance.
This! Yes they can cause damage but not usually much except in video scenarios. I'm also quite surprised with all the range assistance that incident actually happened. In combat more than likely forced bullet out with a cleaning rod under fire or so the pics show. On a range probably returned to armorer and forced out with a cleaning rod. I've never had a problem with an AR to date but would have at least checked the barrel. I'm not against running a patch or few down mine especially when shooting for coins. Really just using the oil to cool the barrel but patch removes the oil, fouling, etc. These occurances are kinda rare with a M-16 though. Did have an old .22 in a barn on the farm that had a bullet stuck in the barrel that couldn't be removed forcing from either end. It was probably an uncles or grandfathers and from the 19teens. Someone stole it recently alone with most everything else they could sell for scrap. |
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So if you do happen to get a squid, and realize it in time. How do you remove the bullet from the bore? and does removing the lodged bullet damage the bore? I'm kind of curious how many rounds he had in the bore before it blew. You can hear a distinct change in sound of the round before he taps, racks, and bangs. With a rifle stoppage like that you need to take the time to think "did that last one sound and feel right?" If not, disassembled and inspect for bore obstruction. Don't clear the next round and keep going. |
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I'm kind of curious how many rounds he had in the bore before it blew.
I'm sure someone knows. Probably didn't have enough gas to cycle the bolt correctly. Reason for the manual extraction and injection. Guess it depends on where it stuck in the barrel. Guess they were having to much fun. |
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I wouldn't call the guy a dumb ass, knowing nothing about his experience or training. I'll reiterate what I said earlier - tap/rack/bang was immediate action training with the M16 when I was a USMC recruit and infantry trainee in 1993/94. We were also trained to pound the shit out of the FA as a part of even a normal reload. I didn't really get into guns and more advanced training for years after I got out, and for a long time, it was only pistols. So, I can totally see how this guy might have some training, or maybe he's a vet, and this can still happen.
The retro forum is nicer than this, it isn't like you guys to ridicule someone so much. |
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I wouldn't call the guy a dumb ass, knowing nothing about his experience or training. I'll reiterate what I said earlier - tap/rack/bang was immediate action training with the M16 when I was a USMC recruit and infantry trainee in 1993/94. We were also trained to pound the shit out of the FA as a part of even a normal reload. I didn't really get into guns and more advanced training for years after I got out, and for a long time, it was only pistols. So, I can totally see how this guy might have some training, or maybe he's a vet, and this can still happen. The retro forum is nicer than this, it isn't like you guys to ridicule someone so much. I understand what you are saying, but this reminds me of the other kaboom vid I saw of a younger vet who was pounding on the FA over and over - had 3 separate rounds that wouldn't fire - no clue. Finally got the squib in far enough that the bolt actually made it into battery - KABOOM. Listen, I saw him check the chamber, he did ALMOST everything right, but this is a good lesson: no matter what your training, you can't take the thing for granted. He should have stopped and checked the damn barrel, and I bet he knows it. FWIW if I had done that I would have called MYSELF a dumbass. It's not an insult if it's the simple truth. I'm glad this was posted, and glad you mentioned Tap Rack Bang and SPORTS because they have a weak link - the shooter. This is an easy thing to do if you are too comfortable with a weapon, and everyone needs to be reminded now and then NOT to be a dumbass, and to stop, clear the weapon and break it apart and check the barrel under such circumstances. The FA can be a real problem, and this illustrates it. Probably why the Navy and AF stayed with the 604. Just my .02 but this was a preventable accident. The shooter did something dumb. |
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I'm pretty sure the older TM's say not to beat and bang on the FA but have the weapon checked by someone in the know which probably won't be the poor soul firing it. This has been debated long enough IMO. If they want to teach someone how to foul up a good functioning rifle then the results are on them. I'm not sticking my head in the fire just because it's the cool thing to do.
The worst part of the whole video was the rangemasters who sat there like they had been hitting the hooka and watched it all happen. If I had done something similar I would have been the first to call myself a DA. Shows one how fast a screw up with a firearm can happen. Something to be learned by all here. |
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I don't recall ever seeing a TM of any kind while I was in the USMC.
To reload the M16A2: Withdraw empty magazine and retain. Insert full magazine. Slap magazine release to chamber round. Hit the FA with the heal of the right hand at least once to ensure that a round is fully chambered. I'm not saying that that's right, just that that's how several hundred thousand people were trained years ago. |
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Couple things I'd like to add:
Immediate Action Drill for combat is a little different than for fun time at the blasting range. Slap, Rack, Tap, Bang is for combat when your life is on the line and the consequence of not getting that rifle firing again is your death and the deaths of others in your squad. Slap the mag to seat it, Rack the action to clear it, tap the FA to seat the next round, PRAY it goes bang when you pull the trigger. The big thing everyone must remember when at the range having fun-time is what to do differently in the RACK part of that sequence. Always OBSERVE what comes out of the chamber. If a whole round comes out (misfire) double-check for bore obstructions, but you are probably safe. If an empty case comes out, go pick it up and look at it. Does it have a primer? Did the primer detonate? Is the bullet jammed down in the case? Is there any unburned powder? If you want to be safe, check the bore *any* time it fails to fire. Watching that guy handle the rifle indicates that he is not very familiar with it. He was constantly setting himself in an awkward position to see into the chamber or see what's going on. Remove the mag, turn the rifle so you can see what comes out and pay attention. There are no points for being the fastest ammo-burner. I'll bet 99% of these incidents are related to reloaded ammo. I handload, I love handloading. I will absolutely NOT shoot someone else's handloads. Too much risk, much higher opportunity for ammo failure in handloads anyway, then you have to trust that this someone else was knowledgable. If you use handloads in a match and have a failure, just give up that stage. One more thing, my local indoor range disallows the use of Tula ammunition in their facility because of the high failure rate. Too dangerous. You gets what you pays for sometimes. 
Count the number of opportunities they are offered to get it right and fail. Match blowup Range blowup Range blowup 2 Someone unfamiliar with guns. (edit) Looking more closely, it looks like it fired out of battery. Interesting, because the M1 has TWO mechanical safety mechanisms to prevent that. Watch how she rides the bolt closed, not allowing it to slam home under spring pressure. Very likely it was not locked. I would love to know the specifics of this gun. Both the firing pin tang and hammer nose would have to be broken off to get it to fire O.O.B. Death of a Garand Classic squib reaction Classic! Value of a second set of eyes Almost had a bad day |
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Quoted:
Couple things I'd like to add: Immediate Action Drill for combat is a little different than for fun time at the blasting range. Slap, Rack, Tap, Bang is for combat when your life is on the line and the consequence of not getting that rifle firing again is your death and the deaths of others in your squad. Slap the mag to seat it, Rack the action to clear it, tap the FA to seat the next round, PRAY it goes bang when you pull the trigger. The big thing everyone must remember when at the range having fun-time is what to do differently in the RACK part of that sequence. Always OBSERVE what comes out of the chamber. If a whole round comes out (misfire) double-check for bore obstructions, but you are probably safe. If an empty case comes out, go pick it up and look at it. Does it have a primer? Did the primer detonate? Is the bullet jammed down in the case? Is there any unburned powder? If you want to be safe, check the bore *any* time it fails to fire. Watching that guy handle the rifle indicates that he is not very familiar with it. He was constantly setting himself in an awkward position to see into the chamber or see what's going on. Remove the mag, turn the rifle so you can see what comes out and pay attention. There are no points for being the fastest ammo-burner. I'll bet 99% of these incidents are related to reloaded ammo. I handload, I love handloading. I will absolutely NOT shoot someone else's handloads. Too much risk, much higher opportunity for ammo failure in handloads anyway, then you have to trust that this someone else was knowledgable. If you use handloads in a match and have a failure, just give up that stage. One more thing, my local indoor range disallows the use of Tula ammunition in their facility because of the high failure rate. Too dangerous. You gets what you pays for sometimes.
Count the number of opportunities they are offered to get it right and fail. Match blowup Range blowup Range blowup 2 Someone unfamiliar with guns Death of a Garand Classic squib reaction Classic! Value of a second set of eyes Almost had a bad day THIS. |
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100% operator error, and could have been avoided with proper training.
US Army Basic Rifle Marksmanship circa 1988 we were taught the SPORTS method. S lap up on the bottom of mag. P ull the charge handle to rear O bserve the bore. R elease the CH T ap the Fwd Asst S hoot ( cont shooting)... If it still failed you were to raise your hand and get the attention of range officer. That said we were all taught about squib loads before we even got to SPORTS. Being an avid shooter before I enlisted I was even more aware if squib loads. |
| It's the single biggest danger of shooting semi-auto firearms. Even with training, and paying attention, it can still happen. When the thing just goes 'click' that should be a huge clue. The thing is, if the squib moves far enough into the barrel during rapid fire, the bolt could still lock into battery - you need to be on top of things. Too easy to pull that trigger one more time. The odds are in your favor that it will never happen, but lack of recoil is another clue. If you like your gun, your hands and your face, you check the bore for obstructions. |
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Why did the sound of the rifle change? I read the wikipedia entry posted on page 1. I listened for it and heard it. But what does it mean and what causes it?
I think this is actually a very important video for us to discuss. Especially since we are all users of retro gear and sometimes cheap ammo / or handloads. Thanks for this thread and thanks for the comments. |
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Why did the sound of the rifle change? I read the wikipedia entry posted on page 1. I listened for it and heard it. But what does it mean and what causes it? I think this is actually a very important video for us to discuss. Especially since we are all users of retro gear and sometimes cheap ammo / or handloads. Thanks for this thread and thanks for the comments. Ammo problem. If quality control is doing it's job, every round will be fully charged (and not overcharged) with powder...and every round will sound the same. If a round missed the powder dump, however––or if the powder charge was incomplete––you get the "pop" of the primer with no powder...or of a light load of powder. Either way, it doesn't sound like a proper load. Unfortunately, when firing full auto, with ear plugs and outer ears and others firing on the line around you––you could miss the sound change. Fortunately, the action also usually changes––the round may not extract, or may trickle out of the ejection port and cause a jam, or the rifle might short-cycle. Those clues are often hard to miss. The important thing is––if something seems wrong, check it out before you continue shooting. |
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100% operator error, and could have been avoided with proper training. US Army Basic Rifle Marksmanship circa 1988 we were taught the SPORTS method. S lap up on the bottom of mag. P ull the charge handle to rear O bserve the bore. R elease the CH T ap the Fwd Asst S hoot ( cont shooting)... If it still failed you were to raise your hand and get the attention of range officer. That said we were all taught about squib loads before we even got to SPORTS. Being an avid shooter before I enlisted I was even more aware if squib loads. Not sure that's realy sufficient in this case. Pull back (and hold) the charging handle, then observe the bore. I don't think you can do it. You can check the chamber, but not the bore. If a squib load has deposited a bullet halfway down the pipe, you ain't gonna see it from that angle. Break open the rifle, pull the BCG and look THROUGH the bore...and this could have been avoided. ...But that's not a "combat" approach, and it's not what we train our troops. |
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