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7/2/2006 7:27:31 AM EDT

Quoted:
sounds good to me too cause i have a question.  i thought i always read that FN provided all the M16A4's to the military.  scottryan posted an obvious colt M16A4.  did FN hav a previous sole source award or were they both always producing A4's.



Sounds like a good way to start the new facts / info thread to me!

I was under the impression that both Colt and FN had made M16A4 rifles, but that the bulk of them are FN, and that FN has the current contract.

7/2/2006 7:41:15 AM EDT
[#1]
its my understanding that FN has been supplying nearly all of our M16A2s and M16A4s since 1988, and that colt still supplies some rifles and the majority of M-4 carbines.

i have no evidence to back this up.
7/2/2006 7:44:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Most of the A2's I see now are FN made or reworked Colt A1's that have been restamped and upgraded. As for the A4's I have not seen one made by FN yet... Not to say there are none out there, I just have not seen any.
7/2/2006 7:55:45 AM EDT
[#3]
tag
7/2/2006 7:56:29 AM EDT
[#4]
I have only seen a handful of Colt A4s, almost everyone I signed for were FN (almost a Battery's worth).
7/2/2006 7:59:59 AM EDT
[#5]
Thats strange. I wonder who says who gets what? I know our entire Battalion had the A4 at one time and they were all Colts.
7/2/2006 8:20:43 AM EDT
[#6]
Every M16A4 in my Guard unit are FNs. Supposedly we're getting the M4s and goodies the unit had in Iraq but they've been telling us "the connexes are still at Ft Lewis" since February so I'm guessing we'll be stuck with the FN muskets.
7/2/2006 8:28:41 AM EDT
[#7]
My understanding is that M4s are solely produced by Colt.  Most of the A2s (what there are now being produced) and almost all of the A4s are FN production from Carolina IIRC.  I *think* that Colt still has a very small cut of the A4, although I seem to remember that FN is pretty much the only one doing it now.
7/2/2006 8:31:26 AM EDT
[#8]
All fo our A4's are pretty old which could account for them being Colt I guess. We started getting the M4's in before we went back to Iraq last time. I carried both an M4 and an A4 depending on what I was doing. Here is my Colt A4...



7/2/2006 8:45:04 AM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:
All fo our A4's are pretty old which could account for them being Colt I guess. We started getting the M4's in before we went back to Iraq last time. I carried both an M4 and an A4 depending on what I was doing. Here is my Colt A4...

i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/DM1975/DSCF0039.jpg

i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/DM1975/DSCF1517.jpg



Looks like it is mid 1998 to summer 2002 production.

What is the forge code on the upper?
7/2/2006 8:47:34 AM EDT
[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All fo our A4's are pretty old which could account for them being Colt I guess. We started getting the M4's in before we went back to Iraq last time. I carried both an M4 and an A4 depending on what I was doing. Here is my Colt A4...

i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/DM1975/DSCF0039.jpg

i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/DM1975/DSCF1517.jpg



Looks like it is mid 1998 to summer 2002 production.

What is the forge code on the upper?



Shit I turned that rifle in months ago, I couldn't tell you.
7/2/2006 8:50:26 AM EDT
[#11]
The SN was 10001762 IIRC...
7/2/2006 8:52:01 AM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
All fo our A4's are pretty old which could account for them being Colt I guess. We started getting the M4's in before we went back to Iraq last time. I carried both an M4 and an A4 depending on what I was doing. Here is my Colt A4...







If you used CLP, you could make that stock look black......




Sorry, this morning is already off to a great start, I figured I would share in my twisted humor.
7/2/2006 8:53:30 AM EDT
[#13]
I never could keep the brass marking up my brass deflector, was there something wrong with my rifle?
7/2/2006 8:56:18 AM EDT
[#14]
Assuming the peel washer is original, would date it 1999 or earlier.

I can't look up the serial number at the moment.
7/2/2006 8:58:02 AM EDT
[#15]
AFAIK it is all original. We had these in OIF I also. I think the unit got them in 2001 but not sure.
7/2/2006 8:59:01 AM EDT
[#16]
Here is my internationally famouse A4 photo... Also a Colt...

7/2/2006 9:01:19 AM EDT
[#17]
And here is a Matech holding up good on it as well...

7/2/2006 9:04:33 AM EDT
[#18]
All the a4's in my unit are Colt and were delivered to us in 2002 I think.

my sn is 10003XXX.
7/2/2006 9:07:29 AM EDT
[#19]
every A2 i've been issued has been a colt, every a4 has been an FN.
7/2/2006 9:10:53 AM EDT
[#20]
A fellow ARFCOMER (RustedAce) tools while in Iraq.  All of them FN.








HUNTER.
7/2/2006 9:17:00 AM EDT
[#21]
Propper Colt F marked FSB

7/2/2006 9:33:29 AM EDT
[#22]
I guess I've never heard the story....

What the HELL did you do to that A4???
7/2/2006 9:35:23 AM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:
I guess I've never heard the story....

What the HELL did you do to that A4???



What did Haj do to it you mean... Big ass IED.
7/2/2006 9:42:38 AM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I guess I've never heard the story....

What the HELL did you do to that A4???



What did Haj do to it you mean... Big ass IED.



was that pistol grip made of nomex-kevlar?
7/2/2006 9:44:21 AM EDT
[#25]
The rifle is not burnt realy, it was just sprayed with hot hydraulic fluid from the track.
7/2/2006 9:48:21 AM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:
The rifle is not burnt realy, it was just sprayed with hot hydraulic fluid from the track.



wow

I hope everybody are ok
7/2/2006 9:49:44 AM EDT
[#27]
One chipped tooth. Other than that everyone was ok.
7/2/2006 10:03:25 AM EDT
[#28]

Quoted:
I never could keep the brass marking up my brass deflector, was there something wrong with my rifle?


It's a TOOL.
7/2/2006 10:08:33 AM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I never could keep the brass marking up my brass deflector, was there something wrong with my rifle?


It's a TOOL.



Ahhhh, the evil dreaded four letter "T" word...
7/2/2006 12:00:52 PM EDT
[#30]


I think you may need a new Barrel Assembly for that A4!!!

Semper Fi,
M60-E4
[email protected]



7/2/2006 1:48:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Numbers I added up on the M16A2 are:

429,766 FNMI
590,478 Colt

Don't have any good numbers on the break down of M16A4 manufacture.  Did find these requests for bids:

www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/06-June/28-Jun-2006/FBO-01077794.htm

www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/01-January/12-Jan-2006/FBO-00964345.htm

www.fbodaily.com/archive/2005/07-July/23-Jul-2005/FBO-00852507.htm

www.fbodaily.com/archive/2005/02-February/02-Feb-2005/FBO-00742923.htm

Note the requirements in the bids, compliance to DoD 5100.76-M for Physical Security of Sensitive Conventional Arms, Ammunition, and Explosives, and ISO 9001:2000 compliance.  That is why there are so few in the game, being a USGI supplier is a expensive investment.  

Anyhow, not sure how to figure out who is getting the awards, for example here is a Colt award, but for what?:

www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/03-March/31-Mar-2006/FBO-01017554.htm


7/2/2006 2:17:43 PM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:
Anyhow, not sure how to figure out who is getting the awards, for example here is a Colt award, but for what?:

www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/03-March/31-Mar-2006/FBO-01017554.htm



Item: M4 Carbine
NSN: 1005-01-231-0973
1. Delivery Order 0037 is awarded subject to the terms and conditions of Contract W52H09-04-D-0086.
2. The unit price is in accordance with attachment 002 of the basic contract. The following Clin is awarded:
Clin 0002AA for a quantity of 2,022 each M4 Carbines, Part Number 9390000, NSN 1005-01-231-0973 at a unit price of $1,016.00, total
$2,054,352.00.

The order is for a Foreign Military Sale.  Anybody know what country is "FMS CASE IDENTIFIER: JO-B-WXZ"?
7/2/2006 6:34:18 PM EDT
[#33]
I'm guessing ease of mounting quality optics are the main point of the A4.  is there a detachable carry handle used for the A4.  is it any different than the M4 one?  i want to think i have seen carry handles with an 8/3 index wheel instead of 6/3.
7/2/2006 6:47:16 PM EDT
[#34]

Quoted:
I'm guessing ease of mounting quality optics are the main point of the A4.  is there a detachable carry handle used for the A4.  is it any different than the M4 one?  i want to think i have seen carry handles with an 8/3 index wheel instead of 6/3.



Nope, same carry handle... I dont believe there is enough depth for the threads to go to 8/3 on one. But I could be wrong.
7/2/2006 8:31:55 PM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm guessing ease of mounting quality optics are the main point of the A4.  is there a detachable carry handle used for the A4.  is it any different than the M4 one?  i want to think i have seen carry handles with an 8/3 index wheel instead of 6/3.



Nope, same carry handle... I dont believe there is enough depth for the threads to go to 8/3 on one. But I could be wrong.


Correct.  The only way you can have an 8/3 rear sight on a detachable carry handle is if you were to drill a hole in top of the upper to get the rear sight room, which would mean a ton of shit falling thorugh that hole and causing all kinds of problems.

machinehead, you probably have seen detachable carry handles with an 8/3 wheel.  They are the product of bottom feeders using the wrong index wheel.
7/2/2006 8:50:38 PM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I'm guessing ease of mounting quality optics are the main point of the A4.  is there a detachable carry handle used for the A4.  is it any different than the M4 one?  i want to think i have seen carry handles with an 8/3 index wheel instead of 6/3.



Nope, same carry handle... I dont believe there is enough depth for the threads to go to 8/3 on one. But I could be wrong.


Correct.  The only way you can have an 8/3 rear sight on a detachable carry handle is if you were to drill a hole in top of the upper to get the rear sight room, which would mean a ton of shit falling thorugh that hole and causing all kinds of problems.

machinehead, you probably have seen detachable carry handles with an 8/3 wheel.  They are the product of bottom feeders using the wrong index wheel.



+1
7/3/2006 6:51:03 AM EDT
[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Anyhow, not sure how to figure out who is getting the awards, for example here is a Colt award, but for what?:

www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/03-March/31-Mar-2006/FBO-01017554.htm



Item: M4 Carbine
NSN: 1005-01-231-0973
1. Delivery Order 0037 is awarded subject to the terms and conditions of Contract W52H09-04-D-0086.
2. The unit price is in accordance with attachment 002 of the basic contract. The following Clin is awarded:
Clin 0002AA for a quantity of 2,022 each M4 Carbines, Part Number 9390000, NSN 1005-01-231-0973 at a unit price of $1,016.00, total
$2,054,352.00.

The order is for a Foreign Military Sale.  Anybody know what country is "FMS CASE IDENTIFIER: JO-B-WXZ"?



Figured you would pop in, but was hoping you had some info on M16A4 contracts.  My understanding is that Colt has not gotten one since about 2001, but got nothing to back that up.
7/3/2006 7:51:19 AM EDT
[#38]

Quoted:
Figured you would pop in, but was hoping you had some info on M16A4 contracts.  My understanding is that Colt has not gotten one since about 2001, but got nothing to back that up.



Have you checked the Timeline?
7/3/2006 8:35:14 AM EDT
[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Figured you would pop in, but was hoping you had some info on M16A4 contracts.  My understanding is that Colt has not gotten one since about 2001, but got nothing to back that up.



Have you checked the Timeline?



Oh yeah, ooops.  Based on that data base I come up with something like:

Colt
19,000

FNMI
21,000

With the bulk of the Colt's going to the US Army, and most of the FN's to the US Marines.  Don't see any M16A4 Colt awards since 1999.

7/3/2006 9:03:52 AM EDT
[#40]
Speaking of Oops!, I just realized that I have not included the majority of the delivery order awards for TACOM Contract DAAE20-00-D-0046 in the Timeline. DAAE20-00-D-0046 was awarded to FNMI in May 2000 and has received additional orders up to Fall 2005.  These will have to wait until the next update.  I have not seen any more recent M16A4 contracts.
7/3/2006 9:10:28 AM EDT
[#41]

Quoted:
Speaking of Oops!, I just realized that I have not included the majority of the delivery order awards for TACOM Contract DAAE20-00-D-0046 in the Timeline. DAAE20-00-D-0046 was awarded to FNMI in May 2000 and has received additional orders up to Fall 2005.  These will have to wait until the next update.  I have not seen any more recent M16A4 contracts.



Yeah, get to work, ha.

Oh yeah, and don't forget to add that there is still part of the Colt vs Bushmaster case that is going forward.
7/5/2006 7:48:05 AM EDT
[#42]
I'll be posting some pictures later this week.
7/5/2006 9:09:53 AM EDT
[#43]

Quoted:
A fellow ARFCOMER (RustedAce) tools while in Iraq.  All of them FN.

i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/HUNTER223/dirtyar3.jpg" border=0>


i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/HUNTER223/dirtyar2.jpg" border=0>

HUNTER.


I can't believe someone actually put a PAS-13 on their rifle.  That thing is hilarious.  And damn, those things suck!
7/5/2006 9:12:03 AM EDT
[#44]

Quoted:
Here is my internationally famouse A4 photo... Also a Colt...

i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/DM1975/4track-7.jpg" border=0>


You're making me all nostalgic!
7/5/2006 9:21:25 AM EDT
[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
A fellow ARFCOMER (RustedAce) tools while in Iraq.  All of them FN.

i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/HUNTER223/dirtyar3.jpg" border=0>


i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/HUNTER223/dirtyar2.jpg" border=0>

HUNTER.


I can't believe someone actually put a PAS-13 on their rifle.  That thing is hilarious.  And damn, those things suck!


I agree, big piece of shit... I had a raptor for mine and it was also a big piece of shit. Almost impossable to zero.
7/6/2006 7:32:59 AM EDT
[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
A fellow ARFCOMER (RustedAce) tools while in Iraq.  All of them FN.

i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/HUNTER223/dirtyar3.jpg" border=0>


i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/HUNTER223/dirtyar2.jpg" border=0>

HUNTER.


I can't believe someone actually put a PAS-13 on their rifle.  That thing is hilarious.  And damn, those things suck!


I agree, big piece of shit... I had a raptor for mine and it was also a big piece of shit. Almost impossable to zero.


We got a AN/PAS-13 awhile back, never tried to mount it on a weapon, but it made for one excellent toy.
7/6/2006 9:03:09 AM EDT
[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
A fellow ARFCOMER (RustedAce) tools while in Iraq.  All of them FN.

i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/HUNTER223/dirtyar3.jpg" border=0>


i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/HUNTER223/dirtyar2.jpg" border=0>

HUNTER.


I can't believe someone actually put a PAS-13 on their rifle.  That thing is hilarious.  And damn, those things suck!


I agree, big piece of shit... I had a raptor for mine and it was also a big piece of shit. Almost impossable to zero.


We got a AN/PAS-13 awhile back, never tried to mount it on a weapon, but it made for one excellent toy.


I never could get one to focus good enough to tell what I was looking at.
7/6/2006 7:43:44 PM EDT
[#48]
The M16A4 Rifle...




This is a picture of a circa Summer 1998 M16A4.



A close up veiw of the Alcoa receiver and tapered lower reinforcement correct for this time period.



Government profile barrel with "F" marked FSB.  Note the peel washer which was used up to 1999.



Buttplate and door assembly.  Note this has the "nipple" style latch rather than the "grove" style latch used on the M16A1 and early M16A2.




April 1998 dated barrel and Feburary 1998 dated bolt.



With the adoption of the SOPMOD kit for the M4A1, all rifles and carbines began getting white RAS numbers in the Summer of 1998.
7/9/2006 3:36:23 PM EDT
[#49]
btt
7/9/2006 3:56:44 PM EDT
[#50]
a semi M16A4
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