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Posted: 3/28/2003 6:16:58 PM EDT
| I want to get an M4 lookalike. I have been looking at Bushmaster's xm15 e2s m4 and was going to get that but then I saw armalite's m15a2 SOF. Can I expect the same Milspec type standards and parts as bushmaster? Is armalite currently making rifles for the government like bushmaster? Which carbine would you get and why? Also, the SOFs barrel is in M4 profile but it is actually a full 16 inches of barrel, as well as a muzzle brake. I like the fact that it is a full 16 inches long and has a brake. Please answer according to quality and not because you like either company better. |
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Bushmaster is the most mil-spec M4 on the market. Both the Armalite and Bushmaster makes great firearms for the civilian market. Colt has great LE/military product, their civilian lower receiver leaves something lackluster. I like the combo of Bushmaster lower with Colt military upper. but for complete firearms, I think Bushmaster make the best AR available to civilian market. I have always stated comparson such as this is like coke vs. pepis. both are good, you just have to find your flavor. |
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I'm the case of the M4 type rifles Colt is closer to mil-spec than the Bushmaster. You are probably referring to the fire control pins and you would be right but check out the list below and you will realize that Colt, overall, is closer to mil-spec. For instance here's what I found when I compared two off-the-shelf M4's: Colt has a 16" 1/7 barrel Bushy has a 14.5" 1/9 barrel ** kinda evens out because mil-spec is 14.5" 1/7 ** Colt has the M4 feed ramps Bushy doesn't Colt has the double heat shield handguards Bushy doesn't Colt also the side sling mount Bushy doesn't Colt also has RAS numbers on the flattop Bushy doesn't So, if fire control pins are what you worry about then Bushmaster is the way to go. But like I said in my first post, IMO the Colt is a better dollar per value M4 type rifle. Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-Bushmaster but when I went to buy an M4 I compared the two (I was actually standing in the store with my money down on a Bushmaster) and thought the Colt was money "better" spent. I also liked the finish on the Colt better but have heard some stories about poor/inconsistent finishes. Marc |
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I looked at both, but not the Armalite. The Colt was more $, but just felt right and it is the M4 - it says so on the barrel and the receiver. I felt it was well worth it. I like Bushmster too, but for an M4, I would go with Colt again. [img]http://www.fototime.com/88E8F0334ED99C1/standard.jpg[/img] |
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Quoted: Colt has a 16" 1/7 barrel Bushy has a 14.5" 1/9 barrel ** kinda evens out because mil-spec is 14.5" 1/7 ** Bushmaster does make 14.5" 1/7 M4's, though not often. Colt has the M4 feed ramps Bushy doesn't Bushmaster does this on request Colt has the double heat shield handguards Bushy doesn't Bushmaster offers the better CavArms C4 handguards, single sheild with offset holes Colt also the side sling mount Bushy doesn't dozens of aftermarket options available Colt also has RAS numbers on the flattop Bushy doesn't not all Colt's have the #'s For the civilian market Colt is only a name, and only more valuable to someone who values Colt's. Colt chose to distance itself from the civilian market, while Bushmaster's products and customer service are the market standard that the other companies strive to acheive. |
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Notack, You'll notice that I stated my comparisons were "off-the-shelf" comparisons. Sure, you could build one closer to mil-spec but if you walked into the shop, like I did, and compared a stock Bushy to a stock Colt, the Colt is a better value. Politics aside, for my money the Colt was a better value and I didn't have to special order it or purchase the extras that the Colt already had. No one was closer to buying a Bushmaster M4 than me. I went to the dealer, money in pocket, to buy a Bushmaster M4. And if I would have purchased soley on name, like you say Colt is, then I would have left with a Bushmaster. However, I'm damn glad I asked, "what is that other M4 over there"? There are more companies out there that are turning out awesome ARs. Armalite, some of the new DPMS's, RRA, and yes, even the new Colt 6400 is impressive. Why should we limit ourselves to just one brand? Why can't we have one of every one?! Marc |
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Quoted: Notack, You'll notice that I stated my comparisons were "off-the-shelf" comparisons. Sure, you could build one closer to mil-spec but if you walked into the shop, like I did, and compared a stock Bushy to a stock Colt, the Colt is a better value. Politics aside, for my money the Colt was a better value and I didn't have to special order it or purchase the extras that the Colt already had. You are correct, that I based my post on ordering the product from Bushmaster directly, as opposed to buying retail. No one was closer to buying a Bushmaster M4 than me. I went to the dealer, money in pocket, to buy a Bushmaster M4. And if I would have purchased soley on name, like you say Colt is, then I would have left with a Bushmaster. However, I'm damn glad I asked, "what is that other M4 over there"? There are more companies out there that are turning out awesome ARs. Armalite, some of the new DPMS's, RRA, and yes, even the new Colt 6400 is impressive. Why should we limit ourselves to just one brand? Why can't we have one of every one?! Marc I have Bushmaster, DPMS, "GI", and even one of the Georgia Precision RAS #'d uppers ( which they will only claim to be made by that "major" brand name[rolleyes]) so I'm not really a "brand" guy. I just avoid Colt products, AR's, 1911's,Woodsmen,ect.. |
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Sorry to highjack your thread ajangler. Even though Notack and I got off track I still think you can't lose with either the Bushmaster or Armalite. Both will be very high quality and both companies have exception customer service. One reason why I like Bushmaster is I can order everything I need right from their catalog and they've always had it on hand. I've never waited. Plus, I carry their catalog around like a security blanket! My wife has to tell me to put it down at the dinner table. Getting back to your decision: I recently decided to get a 20" AR next and narrowed it down between a Bushmaster and an Armalite. The are almost identical except for Armalite uses 4140 for their barrels and Bushmaster uses 4150. I've been leaning more towards the Bushmaster for that reason alone. Besides, I can drive down the road and buy a Bushmaster. No one in my area sells Armalite. Either way, they are both fine rifles. No matter what you decide it will be the right decision. Marc |
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Quoted: Bushmaster, as far as I know, does [b]NOT[/b] make rifles for the US military. Only FN, Colt, Stoner/Knight (SR-25) and some speciality firms like the guys that make the M2 itty-bitty uppers make complete rifles for the US military. Bushmaster made a batch of M4s for the navy. |
| If you want an M4, you have to ask yourself a question. What makes an M4 different from a regular AR carbine? I think "M4arc" listed the differences perfectly. What do I get with a Bushmaster M4? A standard Bushmaster carbine with an tapered barrel, thats pretty much it. A colt M4 6400C gives you ALL of these options. Do you want a M4 or a rifle that looks like an M4? |
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Quoted: Colt also has RAS numbers on the flattop Bushy doesn't Not quite right, I have one Bushmaster LE upper on my desk which has RAS #s. And another note, it has tiny spot/bump under the Bolt Forward Assist in exactly same place as does those Georgia Precision Flat Top Uppers. Unfortunately I don´t have digi camera at the moment to prove this. If anybody does own both BMs and uppers sold by GPSS, could you check this out. MN |
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Not quite right, I have one Bushmaster LE upper on my desk which has RAS #s. Well in that case the Bushmaster is the better value because you get a FS, Bayo lug and collapsible stock! As I said before, I compared two off-the-shelf rifles. Now I guess I need to clarify it by saying "off-the-shelf, non-LEO" rifles. |
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Quoted: Not quite right, I have one Bushmaster LE upper on my desk which has RAS #s. Well in that case the Bushmaster is the better value because you get a FS, Bayo lug and collapsible stock! As I said before, I compared two off-the-shelf rifles. Now I guess I need to clarify it by saying "off-the-shelf, non-LEO" rifles. Allrighty then. [:)] MN |
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I'm totally lost by the rational of "SMGLee" amd his post. Lets just say that I've decided on buying an M4. I sit down and do alittle research (something he apperently has not done) to determine what little diferences make an M4 different from a regular AR carbine. I will say again that "M4arc" listed them perfectly. Now I must take the time to compare the different manufacturers rifles to determine who actually makes a MIL-SPEC M4. Bushmaster obviously loses the "off the shelf" M4 specs comparision. YES, I understand that LEO and special order Bushmasters are different. I AM NOT LEO/MILITARY, NOR DO I WISH TO SPECIAL ORDER A RIFLE THAT I CAN BUY "off the shelf" FROM ANOTHER COMPANY. No way does the addition of a M203 tapered barell make a Bushmaster carbine into a M4. Now if you follow "SMGLee" and his train of thought, I'm suppose to forget all that I have learned and "SUPPORT BUSHMASTER". "SMGLee" made a statement that the Bushmaster was closer to MIL-SPEC. Even after somebody who actually did the research corrects him. His reply is "despite all the comparsons, I still support Bushmaster. better value then Colt and better political view. beside Bushmaster can use our support during this hard times in thier company history". Trust me, the execs at Bushmaster are still making thier bonus and stockoptions. Can someody please help me understand this train of thought? |
| I strongly recommend the Bushmaster. Our company use Bushmaster rifle as a base weapon and we won the contract for the Philippine National Police - Special Action Force. The PNP-SAF conducted a test against HK, Steyr, Colt, Galil and we won that test. Although we added some features to our guns that are proprietary to us, the Bushmaster we think has the accuracy, reliability and durability. Consider the delivery and service too. |
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If you want an M4gery that is as close as possible to the original, than get a Bushmaster upper with A2 receiver and 1:7 twist...I went for the 1:9 twist. Since the original M4's used standard A2 uppers, I don't believe they had the ramp cuts that the M4A1 has. If you want a good M4A1 clone, then get a Colt M4 flattop upper and a Bushmaster barrel :) |
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Quoted: I'm totally lost by the rational of "SMGLee" amd his post. Lets just say that I've decided on buying an M4. I sit down and do alittle research (something he apperently has not done) to determine what little diferences make an M4 different from a regular AR carbine. I will say again that "M4arc" listed them perfectly. Now I must take the time to compare the different manufacturers rifles to determine who actually makes a MIL-SPEC M4. Bushmaster obviously loses the "off the shelf" M4 specs comparision. YES, I understand that LEO and special order Bushmasters are different. I AM NOT LEO/MILITARY, NOR DO I WISH TO SPECIAL ORDER A RIFLE THAT I CAN BUY "off the shelf" FROM ANOTHER COMPANY. No way does the addition of a M203 tapered barell make a Bushmaster carbine into a M4. Now if you follow "SMGLee" and his train of thought, I'm suppose to forget all that I have learned and "SUPPORT BUSHMASTER". "SMGLee" made a statement that the Bushmaster was closer to MIL-SPEC. Even after somebody who actually did the research corrects him. His reply is "despite all the comparsons, I still support Bushmaster. better value then Colt and better political view. beside Bushmaster can use our support during this hard times in thier company history". Trust me, the execs at Bushmaster are still making thier bonus and stockoptions. Can someody please help me understand this train of thought? Bushmaster is under attack by the anti gun lobby because of the Maryland sniper incident. As civilian, it is a lot better to support a company that do their business with civilian and support the civilian ownership of this type of weapon vs. a company like Colt that basically abandon the civilian market. I have nothing against Colt as a product, I personally have a Colt military M4 upper and love it, but as civilian, I just find the Bushmaster with their more mil-spec lower represent a better value then the butchered Colt civilian with their off spec lower. I don't think supporting Bushmaster is a must do for anyone, but if you think helping out a company that have done so much for civilian ownership of AR rifles, then maybe considering give your business to them to help them out at their time of needs. my next upper will be another Bushmaster. as far as all the comparson of upper part, I usually install KAC or ARMS rail system, different sling swivels, I never really care about ramp cuts since it is hardly ever used, and 1:9 twist is actually a better twist rate then 1:7 for civilians. just my irregular rationale, others may vary. |
| Thanks for all your replies but I couldn't help but notice that there was little or no talk about armalite. Has anyone gone to their website and checked out the m15 SOF i was talking about? Some may be interested to know it is also being chambered in .308 as the AR10 SOF. Anyhoo...i'm leaning toward an armalite so is there anything on a stock A2 M4 that bushmaster has and armalite doesn't? I DON'T necessarily want the thick double heat shield handgaurds, I would rather have CAR or mid-length ones. |
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ajangler, Some where in your highjacked thread (thanks to me [:D]) I mentioned that the only difference between Armalite and Bushmaster is that Armalite uses 4140 for their barrels while Bushmaster uses 4150. Not a big deal IMO. The Armalite also comes standard with a 16" barrel. I also think that [b]based on the rifles I've seen[/b] the Armalites have a little nicer finish. The only problem for me is that no one in my area sells them. |
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