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Originally Posted By cjwwd2: Just because it says that on BCM's site doesn't mean it's right. The FDE is the only color provided to SOCOM units. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By cjwwd2: Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor: Originally Posted By Roadblock: Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor: Love this thread and build discussion. I have been reading from page one, and gained a lot of information. Couple questions as I start to piece parts together for my second build. Is using the black RIS 2 instead of FDE GTG, and what about the Tango down vertgrip with the QD or the Daniel Defense ConVert Foregrip? My plan is using BCM lower, BCM SOCOM upper with pinned Mod 1, and EOTech 553. Sorry for my ignorance, as I'm still researching the best I can. Well if you want to be anal about it, it would be made from COLT or FN parts and you would use the FDE rail. That said, I've always based my BLOCK II stuff on Noveske and Daniel Defense. Also they make this stuff called spray paint. If you paint your rifle, who's to tell the difference but technically no, black is not GTG. Given how hard it is to find FDE rails at a good price though, spray paint for the win. Interesting, because the black RIS is described as part of SOPMOD 2 program for SOCOM. I guess piss canning or cerakote is an option as well. I guess the VG's are GTG, either Tango or DD. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Daniel-Defense-AR15-M4A1-RIS-II-FSP-Handguard-BLAC-p/dd%208030%20black.htm Just because it says that on BCM's site doesn't mean it's right. The FDE is the only color provided to SOCOM units. That is what I thought too which is why everyone who uses Black has historically always gotten the "nice rifle, wrong section" when posting pictures in here. I suppose Cerakote or sending it off to Victor would work BUT in my mind painting it would be more kosher as the SF boys paint the hell out of their rifles, I don't know too many of them Cerakoting though! If you built it and sprayed it, no one would ever question it.
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Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Just because it says that on BCM's site doesn't mean it's right. They are referring to the rail itself. Not the color. The FDE is the only color provided to SOCOM units as part of the block II program. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Originally Posted By Roadblock:
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Love this thread and build discussion. I have been reading from page one, and gained a lot of information. Couple questions as I start to piece parts together for my second build. Is using the black RIS 2 instead of FDE GTG, and what about the Tango down vertgrip with the QD or the Daniel Defense ConVert Foregrip? My plan is using BCM lower, BCM SOCOM upper with pinned Mod 1, and EOTech 553. Sorry for my ignorance, as I'm still researching the best I can. Well if you want to be anal about it, it would be made from COLT or FN parts and you would use the FDE rail. That said, I've always based my BLOCK II stuff on Noveske and Daniel Defense. Also they make this stuff called spray paint. If you paint your rifle, who's to tell the difference but technically no, black is not GTG. Given how hard it is to find FDE rails at a good price though, spray paint for the win. Interesting, because the black RIS is described as part of SOPMOD 2 program for SOCOM. I guess piss canning or cerakote is an option as well. I guess the VG's are GTG, either Tango or DD. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Daniel-Defense-AR15-M4A1-RIS-II-FSP-Handguard-BLAC-p/dd%208030%20black.htm Just because it says that on BCM's site doesn't mean it's right. They are referring to the rail itself. Not the color. The FDE is the only color provided to SOCOM units as part of the block II program. Okay, you might be on to something.....but DD's website lists the same thing. Scroll down Material and Construction and it says Finish: Black https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/m4a1-fsp-rail-interface-system-ii-ris-ii.html |
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
- Sigmund Freud |
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Okay, you might be on to something.....but DD's website lists the same thing. Scroll down Material and Construction and it says Finish: Black https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/m4a1-fsp-rail-interface-system-ii-ris-ii.html View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Originally Posted By Roadblock:
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Love this thread and build discussion. I have been reading from page one, and gained a lot of information. Couple questions as I start to piece parts together for my second build. Is using the black RIS 2 instead of FDE GTG, and what about the Tango down vertgrip with the QD or the Daniel Defense ConVert Foregrip? My plan is using BCM lower, BCM SOCOM upper with pinned Mod 1, and EOTech 553. Sorry for my ignorance, as I'm still researching the best I can. Well if you want to be anal about it, it would be made from COLT or FN parts and you would use the FDE rail. That said, I've always based my BLOCK II stuff on Noveske and Daniel Defense. Also they make this stuff called spray paint. If you paint your rifle, who's to tell the difference but technically no, black is not GTG. Given how hard it is to find FDE rails at a good price though, spray paint for the win. Interesting, because the black RIS is described as part of SOPMOD 2 program for SOCOM. I guess piss canning or cerakote is an option as well. I guess the VG's are GTG, either Tango or DD. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Daniel-Defense-AR15-M4A1-RIS-II-FSP-Handguard-BLAC-p/dd%208030%20black.htm Just because it says that on BCM's site doesn't mean it's right. They are referring to the rail itself. Not the color. The FDE is the only color provided to SOCOM units as part of the block II program. Okay, you might be on to something.....but DD's website lists the same thing. Scroll down Material and Construction and it says Finish: Black https://danieldefense.com/rail-systems/m4a1-fsp-rail-interface-system-ii-ris-ii.html It's a typo. It has been discussed on here at great lengths that FDE is the only color supplied to SOCOM and thus the only color appropriate for clones (unless your black is painted) |
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Originally Posted By SuperMoose:
Wait you mean someone who goes on a shooting spree stops when they meet the possibility of resistance? What a novel fucking concept. |
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
- Sigmund Freud |
Got it...I was just confirming it wasn't a BCM typo. Technically speaking, even using a black RIS that has been painted still has a black RIS stock number. After reading this thread for two hours, my brain hurts so forgive my impropriety and discussing subject matter that has been regurgitated ad nauseam. |
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
- Sigmund Freud |
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Got it...I was just confirming it wasn't a BCM typo. Technically speaking, even using a black RIS that has been painted still has a black RIS stock number. After reading this thread for two hours, my brain hurts so forgive my impropriety and discussing subject matter that has been regurgitated ad nauseam. View Quote No worries. It can get confusing. Since the FDE ones are so hard to find right now, I highly doubt people are gonna give you crap for buying a black one and painting it if you wanted to build a clone. |
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Originally Posted By SuperMoose:
Wait you mean someone who goes on a shooting spree stops when they meet the possibility of resistance? What a novel fucking concept. |
Thank you for contacting Daniel Defense. Unfortunately due to an order
backlog we won't be able to offer those rail system for sale anytime in the near future. -Joe Joseph Scull Law Enforcement & Military Sales DD got back to me in 2 minutes.......interesting though, because they list the FDE RIS available on their complete uppers and builds. |
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
- Sigmund Freud |
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Thank you for contacting Daniel Defense. Unfortunately due to an order backlog we won't be able to offer those rail system for sale anytime in the near future. -Joe Joseph Scull Law Enforcement & Military Sales DD got back to me in 2 minutes.......interesting though, because they list the FDE RIS available on their complete uppers and builds. View Quote Yeah why make $300 on a rail when you can make $600 on the upper. Makes sense to me. |
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Originally Posted By JimboJones1:
Yeah why make $300 on a rail when you can make $600 on the upper. Makes sense to me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By JimboJones1:
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Thank you for contacting Daniel Defense. Unfortunately due to an order backlog we won't be able to offer those rail system for sale anytime in the near future. -Joe Joseph Scull Law Enforcement & Military Sales DD got back to me in 2 minutes.......interesting though, because they list the FDE RIS available on their complete uppers and builds. Yeah why make $300 on a rail when you can make $600 on the upper. Makes sense to me. To build or purchase the upper would be over $1,300....insane |
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
- Sigmund Freud |
Off the record, I love your new bangs, Mrs. Obama
OR, USA
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Guys quit selling your FDE rails and B2 uppers. You know you're going to regret it.
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
- Sigmund Freud |
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Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
To build or purchase the upper would be over $1,300....insane View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Originally Posted By JimboJones1:
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Thank you for contacting Daniel Defense. Unfortunately due to an order backlog we won't be able to offer those rail system for sale anytime in the near future. -Joe Joseph Scull Law Enforcement & Military Sales DD got back to me in 2 minutes.......interesting though, because they list the FDE RIS available on their complete uppers and builds. Yeah why make $300 on a rail when you can make $600 on the upper. Makes sense to me. To build or purchase the upper would be over $1,300....insane I bought my Block 2 upper from Bravo Company like 2? summers ago and I think I paid $840 or $850 for it. I remember it being one of the most expensive options for a 14.5'' upper from them as well. As much fun as it is to toy around with the RIS II I think you'd be better served by the availability of something like Centurion / Geissele at this point. Kinda sucks when DD or any other MFG starts playing these games. |
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Originally Posted By Roadblock:
SPEAKING OF FNMI.... So um FNMI parts would now be clone kosher from what I'm understanding due to the contract. SO... I've seen these FNMI 1/7 FN roll marked barrels for like $160.00 dollars. Why? Why are they so cheap if they are made by FN? The price point is almost scaring me away. I was going to get a SOCOM barrel but $160.00 is hard to beat if it's a true FN barrel. Am I misunderstanding something here? Because if I can get an FN barrel for $160, maybe score a used FNMI (F Keyhole marked) upper for $70.00 or so, hell this this will be one of the cheapest builds I've ever done. The only thing I would be missing would be the gas block and BCG. Would love to score a matching FNMI BCG if they are to be had. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Roadblock:
Originally Posted By Augee:
Originally Posted By Roadblock:
QUESTION! So I'm building my second BLOCK II rifle. Sorry I ever sold my first. Trying to decide is um I want to do another upper using full DD parts again OR go for the true COLT upper. I'm almost thinking the COLT build might be cheaper. A SOCOM barrel seems to cost the same as a DD 14.5 or 16 inch M4 profile. The COLT and DD BCG's seem to roughly both be around $200 bucks. Now for a stripped upper, for those of you who are trying to do true COLT style upper builds, are you tracking down actual COLT stripped uppers or use using whatever? Last I saw there was an FNMI M4 upper on the EE for $70 or something like that. Beyond that, if you're wanting to do an "all correct" clone, then yes, a Colt, or possibly FNMI upper would be the most "correct." There seem to be a lot of fairly affordable Colt take-offs available at any given time in the EE. ~Augee SPEAKING OF FNMI.... So um FNMI parts would now be clone kosher from what I'm understanding due to the contract. SO... I've seen these FNMI 1/7 FN roll marked barrels for like $160.00 dollars. Why? Why are they so cheap if they are made by FN? The price point is almost scaring me away. I was going to get a SOCOM barrel but $160.00 is hard to beat if it's a true FN barrel. Am I misunderstanding something here? Because if I can get an FN barrel for $160, maybe score a used FNMI (F Keyhole marked) upper for $70.00 or so, hell this this will be one of the cheapest builds I've ever done. The only thing I would be missing would be the gas block and BCG. Would love to score a matching FNMI BCG if they are to be had. Those barrels are not any more or less "clone correct" than any other commercial M4-profile barrel, and not the same thing as a military contract barrel in the same sense an LE6920 barrel would be in all ways besides OAL. Military contract barrels are marked either with "FNMI" or FNMI's CAGE, and in a different style, while the FN barrel that PSA is selling has the commercial, stylized logo most frequently associated with FNH, not FNMI, though PSA does advertise (and I'm sure they are) the barrels being made by FN Manufacturing. What is different, however, is not the markings, but the fact that last I heard, neither FN entity is authorized under the terms of the licensing agreement for government production of M16s and M4s to use any of the proprietary data contained in the TDP for commercial sale. This is not a statement of judgment about the PSA FN barrel being good or bad - just an FYI for those who care about building "totally correct" clones using as many "clone correct" parts as possible. For the price, it sounds like a good barrel, though. ~Augee |
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Originally Posted By RJeff21:
You could also do a FSP build, eliminating the need for a KAC front BUIS all together. https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7455/16375873471_c630eb172c_b.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8636/16191379169_7e6caf25b3_b.jpg View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By RJeff21:
Originally Posted By hawkeye180:
I want to start collecting parts to build a Block II rifle. Should I buy the Knights Armament taupe sight that I found? I also need to save for graduate school. This thread is terrible... You could also do a FSP build, eliminating the need for a KAC front BUIS all together. https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7455/16375873471_c630eb172c_b.jpg https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8636/16191379169_7e6caf25b3_b.jpg FSP is the only option AFAIC. |
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Sent from the 9th Annual Player Haters Ball
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Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor: Thank you for contacting Daniel Defense. Unfortunately due to an order backlog we won't be able to offer those rail system for sale anytime in the near future. -Joe Joseph Scull Law Enforcement & Military Sales DD got back to me in 2 minutes.......interesting though, because they list the FDE RIS available on their complete uppers and builds. View Quote Ah yes allow me to speculate there! So DD claims they got a new big military contract for RIS II barrels. Seems to me that maybe the ARMY was buying some now? I forget who exactly, doesn't matter really. Either way DD claimed that "new big mil contract". Now one other point to mention there was a time that DD never actually made these rails available to the civilian market. The ones that came out were overruns. Then I believe the mil sales slowed so they started selling more and more of them. Anyway fast forward a few years and look how big this thread is. These clones got HUGE! Everyone wants them and DD knows it. Back to the mil contract claim. Yeah it's probably true. They said they were going to stop all sales of FDE RIS II and MK18 rails but would still produce them in Black. OK well um, it's no harder to make them in FDE then Black really and if FDE is more popular, why not make them in FDE too then? Well it's simple. About the same time DD got that huge mil contract they claim they got that made them not have enough FDE rails to go around guess what else happened? DD started selling their own MK18 and M4-A1 uppers featuring the FDE Rails! Shortly later came whole guns. So why sell a rail when you can sell a whole upper or rifle? I too bitched about it. I even pointed some of this out in DD's section of the forum and my thread was magically deleted! I was all set to buy a SMR MK4 or a Noveske NSR and try something different when I lucked into finding a new in the box M4-A1 RIS II in FDE, semi-locally for $300.00 cash out the door. The LGS commented that the rails just were not popular! ;) I want to be mad at DD for playing these games. I want to not want a BLOCK II rifle but the fact is I'm SO sorry I sold my first one as it was my favorite build. That and at $300, I wouldn't loose money on the rail if I change my mind. Sorry rambling! :) |
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While it makes things more inconvenient for us cloners - considering the matter from DD's point of view, with a very limited number of RIS IIs to offer for commercial sale - their "M4A1" line is one of their "flagship" products.
When you're running a business and trying to keep your brand alive - you do not want to be turning people away from buying your flagship product, it's not necessarily about making money per se, but something a little bit more intangible, but arguably far more important. At the end of the day, if someone builds a put-together upper using a DD rail, and various odds and ends and bits and pieces, Daniel Defense doesn't really... "gain" much from that, versus what they stand to gain from keeping their flagship product available to people who want to buy them, where they don't just represent a DD rail - but a complete DD product. I'm not sure where the rumor that the RIS II was being discontinued came from, as far as I know, DD has continually made it clear that they're going to be of limited availability while they fulfill military orders - but they will be back - they're trying to rapidly field enough units to equip a relatively large component within SOCOM - once they're back to simply sustaining the force, there's not going to be as much of a "shortage." I typically try not to "name names" as far as units go - but if you've been paying attention, and you look back through this thread - look at who "first" started showing up with RIS II equipped 14.5" URGs, then who came next - over how long it took for them to all be "fully fielded" and who seems to be getting them now, and how timeline for their "conversion," and then compare the relative size of those different components and consider their necessary support infrastructure and distribution to boot. It becomes fairly easy to understand why DD was always able to maintain a reliable supply available for commercial parts sales, and why "all of a sudden" they're not able to keep up. So, I suppose, if you're a "must have it now" type, then yeah, your choice is really pretty much to pay the piper. Personally, I'm still working on my "MK 12 for 2012" build, so waiting a little bit is no issue. ~Augee |
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Originally Posted By MILSPEC556: The 553 is the most rugged EOTech made to date. It can dive to 66 ft for 2 hours, EXPS is 33 ft for 2 hrs. The 553 had to undergo more torture/ drop testing etc that the EXPS didn't, things of that nature. The EXPS is a tough sight too though. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By MILSPEC556: Originally Posted By Roadblock: Sweeeeet. I liked my EXPS. Traded it for the 553. WHY! Why in gods name would you ever do that! Even the SF boys switched to the SU-231a. The 553 is the most rugged EOTech made to date. It can dive to 66 ft for 2 hours, EXPS is 33 ft for 2 hrs. The 553 had to undergo more torture/ drop testing etc that the EXPS didn't, things of that nature. The EXPS is a tough sight too though. |
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Originally Posted By Augee: While it makes things more inconvenient for us cloners - considering the matter from DD's point of view, with a very limited number of RIS IIs to offer for commercial sale - their "M4A1" line is one of their "flagship" products. When you're running a business and trying to keep your brand alive - you do not want to be turning people away from buying your flagship product, it's not necessarily about making money per se, but something a little bit more intangible, but arguably far more important. At the end of the day, if someone builds a put-together upper using a DD rail, and various odds and ends and bits and pieces, Daniel Defense doesn't really... "gain" much from that, versus what they stand to gain from keeping their flagship product available to people who want to buy them, where they don't just represent a DD rail - but a complete DD product. I'm not sure where the rumor that the RIS II was being discontinued came from, as far as I know, DD has continually made it clear that they're going to be of limited availability while they fulfill military orders - but they will be back - they're trying to rapidly field enough units to equip a relatively large component within SOCOM - once they're back to simply sustaining the force, there's not going to be as much of a "shortage." So, I suppose, if you're a "must have it now" type, then yeah, your choice is really pretty much to pay the piper. Personally, I'm still working on my "MK 12 for 2012" build, so waiting a little bit is no issue. ~Augee View Quote Discontinued was most likely the wrong word. DD said they wouldn't be selling any of the "rails" in FDE at all and that they would still offer them in "Black" but I don't see any of those around much either. They said the reason was to fill a Military contract. Right after that is when those complete MK18 and M4-A1 uppers started to be offered and then their full rifles based on the same builds. I think what was meant was that they suspended the sales of those rails for the near future until they finish their Mil contract and finish milking the clone market! ;) |
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Yes. The issues with 553s have more than been documented.
Frankly, the EXPS line is in its own realm in comparison. |
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"They are not men, they are weapons."
It's not me, it's the BRD talking. |
Another barrel question!
So if I do not go with that button broached FMHI barrel PSA is offering for $159.99 and I was going to look to COLT or DD, which of the two would you guys pick for the price Vs. what offered? COLT M4 barrel runs $260, the SOCOM is $280, and for roughly the same price I can get a DD CHF barrel. Which of those options would you choose? Oh or I can get an FNH CHF barrel for around $285.00, but it's Govt profile, not M4. I was already planning on spending roughly $280~300.00 so eh whatever. If I go with the COLT M4, or DD, Brownells has them in-stock. SOCOM, probably G&R Tactical?
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Originally Posted By Roadblock: Another barrel question! View Quote So if I do not go with that button broached FMHI barrel PSA is offering for $159.99 and I was going to look to COLT or DD, which of the two would you guys pick for the price Vs. what offered? COLT M4 barrel runs $260, the SOCOM is $280, and for roughly the same price I can get a DD CHF barrel. Which of those options would you choose? Oh or I can get an FNH CHF barrel for around $285.00, but it's Govt profile, not M4. I was already planning on spending roughly $280~300.00 so eh whatever. If I go with the COLT M4, or DD, Brownells has them in-stock. SOCOM, probably G&R Tactical? Besides being "clone correct", they have been incredibly accurate (for CL barrels); in my experience. |
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Originally Posted By ihcnehc:
Hey man - can you substantiate this claim? The issues that plague 553 are pretty well known (mount and battery orientation and etc). In fact I believe it kind of gave EOTech a bad name. There have been people who run the guns we are trying to clone here for a living posted here that pretty much says otherwise. In any case EOTech has discontinued 553, please let that "553 is the s__t BS die". One example here. Another one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By ihcnehc:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By Roadblock:
Sweeeeet. I liked my EXPS. Traded it for the 553. WHY! Why in gods name would you ever do that! Even the SF boys switched to the SU-231a. The 553 is the most rugged EOTech made to date. It can dive to 66 ft for 2 hours, EXPS is 33 ft for 2 hrs. The 553 had to undergo more torture/ drop testing etc that the EXPS didn't, things of that nature. The EXPS is a tough sight too though. Hey man - can you substantiate this claim? The issues that plague 553 are pretty well known (mount and battery orientation and etc). In fact I believe it kind of gave EOTech a bad name. There have been people who run the guns we are trying to clone here for a living posted here that pretty much says otherwise. In any case EOTech has discontinued 553, please let that "553 is the s__t BS die". One example here. Another one. What I was referring to is the specs that make the 553 different from any other EOTech made to date such as it being able to dive to 66ft for 2 hours, every other model being 33ft/2 hrs or less depth than that on certain models, SOCOM put it through various drop/torture testing, that as far as I've been able to tell wasn't done on the EXPS. I'm not saying it's the most rugged optic ever made, just that it's the most rugged EOTech made in my opinion. I haven't had any of my EOTech's fail on me to be fair though (that includes an EXPS) The last thing I'm going to do is get in an argument about this, but my opinion stands. |
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In the absence of a plan, move toward the sound of gunfire and kill everything.
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I've yet to encounter a CL barrel more accurate than DD. My test group is large as well. Numerous DD barrels, Colt barrels, KAC barrels, BCM barrels, Noveske barrels, FN barrels, Spikes barrels, PSA barrels.
DD barrels are stupid accurate. I don't even bother with SS barrels anymore because of them. And a CHF barrel is always nice to have. Even if you don't think you'll need the added lifespan and durability. |
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"They are not men, they are weapons."
It's not me, it's the BRD talking. |
You claim the 553 is the most rugged EoTech ever made solely because it's advertised to be submersible to a deeper depth than the newer models?
I see... 553s have a borderline terrible reputation for overall functionality. |
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"They are not men, they are weapons."
It's not me, it's the BRD talking. |
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
You claim the 553 is the most rugged EoTech ever made solely because it's advertised to be submersible to a deeper depth than the newer models? I see... 553s have a borderline terrible reputation for overall functionality. View Quote Like I've told you before Ryan, if you want to talk to me you can talk to me in person. I'm not playing your little Internet argument games. |
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In the absence of a plan, move toward the sound of gunfire and kill everything.
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Constructive conversations don't always need to be met with hostility.
But you're always welcome to come visit me in AZ whenever you'd like. I'd be sure to clear my calendar just for you. |
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"They are not men, they are weapons."
It's not me, it's the BRD talking. |
DD has been selling complete receivers and rifles with FDE RIS IIs for quite a while now, far longer than the relatively recent "shortage," they just didn't advertise them - or really any of their complete rifle/upper line the same way. The "rollout" of the DD M4A1 DD MK18 coincided with a general expansion of their product offerings - but again - for obvious marketing reasons, they are often in the "forefront," because what manufacturer isn't going to use "SOCOM uses this!" as a marketing strategy if they can?
Re: the SU-231/EOTech 553 failures - some things to consider - The EOTech 553 in SU-231 form is/was probably the most widely fielded EOTech model in military service, we're talking about a rate of nearly 100% across components within SOCOM, versus much smaller numbers of earlier versions - such is one of the consequences of being "officially adopted." Higher numbers in service = higher number of failures - regardless. Anyone who thinks that Aimpoints do not break has not seen milk-crates full of deadlined M68CCOs - it is what it is, it's not to say that Aimpoints are bad sights either - it's just what happens when you have that many in service being used by people with no personal stake in them (i.e. - they didn't pay out of pocket for them). Honestly, the optics I've seen with the lowest failure rate across the board are ACOGs, and they break plenty, too. Joe can break anything - this is a truism well known service-wide and beyond. Early batches of EOTech 553s had a defect with the battery compartments that was well known at the time - and EOTech sent out repair kits for them - whether or not they were installed 100% service-wide is nearly impossible to say. Meanwhile - as far as the EXPS goes - rated specs being rated specs - the EXPS has been adopted as the SU-231A/PEQ - concerns about it being tested are not grounded - once again, there are certain requirements that go along with receiving an official designation as official issue versus "used by some folks purchased COTS." Moreover, the EXPS is listed as a "CAR Hardened" Phased Replacement for the 553 - let the debates rage on from FN-ophiles about whether or not "SCARs eat optics" - the current USSOCOM standard for Visual Augmentation Systems (VAS) recognizes a distinction between "[S]CAR Hardened" and not CAR hardened. ~Augee |
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Good points of view as always Augee. One thing I've wondered is why we find so many commercially sold 553's that are marked SU-231/PEQ, but for the EXPS I've only seen them SU-231A/PEQ marked on actual military supplied EXPS'
Just makes me wonder why they decided to change it this go-round |
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In the absence of a plan, move toward the sound of gunfire and kill everything.
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Originally Posted By Augee:
DD has been selling complete receivers and rifles with FDE RIS IIs for quite a while now, far longer than the relatively recent "shortage," they just didn't advertise them - or really any of their complete rifle/upper line the same way. The "rollout" of the DD M4A1 DD MK18 coincided with a general expansion of their product offerings - but again - for obvious marketing reasons, they are often in the "forefront," because what manufacturer isn't going to use "SOCOM uses this!" as a marketing strategy if they can? Re: the SU-231/EOTech 553 failures - some things to consider - The EOTech 553 in SU-231 form is/was probably the most widely fielded EOTech model in military service, we're talking about a rate of nearly 100% across components within SOCOM, versus much smaller numbers of earlier versions - such is one of the consequences of being "officially adopted." Higher numbers in service = higher number of failures - regardless. Anyone who thinks that Aimpoints do not break has not seen milk-crates full of deadlined M68CCOs - it is what it is, it's not to say that Aimpoints are bad sights either - it's just what happens when you have that many in service being used by people with no personal stake in them (i.e. - they didn't pay out of pocket for them). Honestly, the optics I've seen with the lowest failure rate across the board are ACOGs, and they break plenty, too. Joe can break anything - this is a truism well known service-wide and beyond. Early batches of EOTech 553s had a defect with the battery compartments that was well known at the time - and EOTech sent out repair kits for them - whether or not they were installed 100% service-wide is nearly impossible to say. Meanwhile - as far as the EXPS goes - rated specs being rated specs - the EXPS has been adopted as the SU-231A/PEQ - concerns about it being tested are not grounded - once again, there are certain requirements that go along with receiving an official designation as official issue versus "used by some folks purchased COTS." Moreover, the EXPS is listed as a "CAR Hardened" Phased Replacement for the 553 - let the debates rage on from FN-ophiles about whether or not "SCARs eat optics" - the current USSOCOM standard for Visual Augmentation Systems (VAS) recognizes a distinction between "[S]CAR Hardened" and not CAR hardened. ~Augee View Quote I can attest to this. My platoon had three broken ACOGs during our month long op in the Philippines this past October. |
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Originally Posted By MNRidesHonda:
I can attest to this. My platoon had three broken ACOGs during our month long op in the Philippines this past October. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By MNRidesHonda:
Originally Posted By Augee:
DD has been selling complete receivers and rifles with FDE RIS IIs for quite a while now, far longer than the relatively recent "shortage," they just didn't advertise them - or really any of their complete rifle/upper line the same way. The "rollout" of the DD M4A1 DD MK18 coincided with a general expansion of their product offerings - but again - for obvious marketing reasons, they are often in the "forefront," because what manufacturer isn't going to use "SOCOM uses this!" as a marketing strategy if they can? Re: the SU-231/EOTech 553 failures - some things to consider - The EOTech 553 in SU-231 form is/was probably the most widely fielded EOTech model in military service, we're talking about a rate of nearly 100% across components within SOCOM, versus much smaller numbers of earlier versions - such is one of the consequences of being "officially adopted." Higher numbers in service = higher number of failures - regardless. Anyone who thinks that Aimpoints do not break has not seen milk-crates full of deadlined M68CCOs - it is what it is, it's not to say that Aimpoints are bad sights either - it's just what happens when you have that many in service being used by people with no personal stake in them (i.e. - they didn't pay out of pocket for them). Honestly, the optics I've seen with the lowest failure rate across the board are ACOGs, and they break plenty, too. Joe can break anything - this is a truism well known service-wide and beyond. Early batches of EOTech 553s had a defect with the battery compartments that was well known at the time - and EOTech sent out repair kits for them - whether or not they were installed 100% service-wide is nearly impossible to say. Meanwhile - as far as the EXPS goes - rated specs being rated specs - the EXPS has been adopted as the SU-231A/PEQ - concerns about it being tested are not grounded - once again, there are certain requirements that go along with receiving an official designation as official issue versus "used by some folks purchased COTS." Moreover, the EXPS is listed as a "CAR Hardened" Phased Replacement for the 553 - let the debates rage on from FN-ophiles about whether or not "SCARs eat optics" - the current USSOCOM standard for Visual Augmentation Systems (VAS) recognizes a distinction between "[S]CAR Hardened" and not CAR hardened. ~Augee I can attest to this. My platoon had three broken ACOGs during our month long op in the Philippines this past October. How many broken PEQ 15's? It would be badass to see the numbers for broken optics/lasers every 1-6 months for every branch. Bet it's a pretty high number on both accounts |
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In the absence of a plan, move toward the sound of gunfire and kill everything.
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Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
How many broken PEQ 15's? It would be badass to see the numbers for broken optics/lasers every 1-6 months for every branch. Bet it's a pretty high number on both accounts View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By MNRidesHonda:
Originally Posted By Augee:
DD has been selling complete receivers and rifles with FDE RIS IIs for quite a while now, far longer than the relatively recent "shortage," they just didn't advertise them - or really any of their complete rifle/upper line the same way. The "rollout" of the DD M4A1 DD MK18 coincided with a general expansion of their product offerings - but again - for obvious marketing reasons, they are often in the "forefront," because what manufacturer isn't going to use "SOCOM uses this!" as a marketing strategy if they can? Re: the SU-231/EOTech 553 failures - some things to consider - The EOTech 553 in SU-231 form is/was probably the most widely fielded EOTech model in military service, we're talking about a rate of nearly 100% across components within SOCOM, versus much smaller numbers of earlier versions - such is one of the consequences of being "officially adopted." Higher numbers in service = higher number of failures - regardless. Anyone who thinks that Aimpoints do not break has not seen milk-crates full of deadlined M68CCOs - it is what it is, it's not to say that Aimpoints are bad sights either - it's just what happens when you have that many in service being used by people with no personal stake in them (i.e. - they didn't pay out of pocket for them). Honestly, the optics I've seen with the lowest failure rate across the board are ACOGs, and they break plenty, too. Joe can break anything - this is a truism well known service-wide and beyond. Early batches of EOTech 553s had a defect with the battery compartments that was well known at the time - and EOTech sent out repair kits for them - whether or not they were installed 100% service-wide is nearly impossible to say. Meanwhile - as far as the EXPS goes - rated specs being rated specs - the EXPS has been adopted as the SU-231A/PEQ - concerns about it being tested are not grounded - once again, there are certain requirements that go along with receiving an official designation as official issue versus "used by some folks purchased COTS." Moreover, the EXPS is listed as a "CAR Hardened" Phased Replacement for the 553 - let the debates rage on from FN-ophiles about whether or not "SCARs eat optics" - the current USSOCOM standard for Visual Augmentation Systems (VAS) recognizes a distinction between "[S]CAR Hardened" and not CAR hardened. ~Augee I can attest to this. My platoon had three broken ACOGs during our month long op in the Philippines this past October. How many broken PEQ 15's? It would be badass to see the numbers for broken optics/lasers every 1-6 months for every branch. Bet it's a pretty high number on both accounts No broken PEQ on this deployment. But my PEQ16 was shattered by a M240B during our pre deployment work up out in the Mojave Desert this past February. I was attached to a team of machine gunners. We were riding in AAV and those that have ridden in them know that AAV + Mojave Desert = being violently tossed around. Well, the MG lost control of his 240B and it flew into my PEQ16. Thanks God it wasn't my knee cause that wouldn't have been pretty |
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I broke my TA01NSN that I had on my M4 about two months into the deployment. Had it replaced with brand new TA31 that was TPE. When I went on leave I brought back my 553 and G23 and used them for the rest of the deployment. Still have both and they work great.
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Originally Posted By MNRidesHonda:
No broken PEQ on this deployment. But my PEQ16 was shattered by a M240B during our pre deployment work up out in the Mojave Desert this past February. I was attached to a team of machine gunners. We were riding in AAV and those that have ridden in them know that AAV + Mojave Desert = being violently tossed around. Well, the MG lost control of his 240B and it flew into my PEQ16. Thanks God it wasn't my knee cause that wouldn't have been pretty View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By MNRidesHonda:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By MNRidesHonda:
Originally Posted By Augee:
DD has been selling complete receivers and rifles with FDE RIS IIs for quite a while now, far longer than the relatively recent "shortage," they just didn't advertise them - or really any of their complete rifle/upper line the same way. The "rollout" of the DD M4A1 DD MK18 coincided with a general expansion of their product offerings - but again - for obvious marketing reasons, they are often in the "forefront," because what manufacturer isn't going to use "SOCOM uses this!" as a marketing strategy if they can? Re: the SU-231/EOTech 553 failures - some things to consider - The EOTech 553 in SU-231 form is/was probably the most widely fielded EOTech model in military service, we're talking about a rate of nearly 100% across components within SOCOM, versus much smaller numbers of earlier versions - such is one of the consequences of being "officially adopted." Higher numbers in service = higher number of failures - regardless. Anyone who thinks that Aimpoints do not break has not seen milk-crates full of deadlined M68CCOs - it is what it is, it's not to say that Aimpoints are bad sights either - it's just what happens when you have that many in service being used by people with no personal stake in them (i.e. - they didn't pay out of pocket for them). Honestly, the optics I've seen with the lowest failure rate across the board are ACOGs, and they break plenty, too. Joe can break anything - this is a truism well known service-wide and beyond. Early batches of EOTech 553s had a defect with the battery compartments that was well known at the time - and EOTech sent out repair kits for them - whether or not they were installed 100% service-wide is nearly impossible to say. Meanwhile - as far as the EXPS goes - rated specs being rated specs - the EXPS has been adopted as the SU-231A/PEQ - concerns about it being tested are not grounded - once again, there are certain requirements that go along with receiving an official designation as official issue versus "used by some folks purchased COTS." Moreover, the EXPS is listed as a "CAR Hardened" Phased Replacement for the 553 - let the debates rage on from FN-ophiles about whether or not "SCARs eat optics" - the current USSOCOM standard for Visual Augmentation Systems (VAS) recognizes a distinction between "[S]CAR Hardened" and not CAR hardened. ~Augee I can attest to this. My platoon had three broken ACOGs during our month long op in the Philippines this past October. How many broken PEQ 15's? It would be badass to see the numbers for broken optics/lasers every 1-6 months for every branch. Bet it's a pretty high number on both accounts No broken PEQ on this deployment. But my PEQ16 was shattered by a M240B during our pre deployment work up out in the Mojave Desert this past February. I was attached to a team of machine gunners. We were riding in AAV and those that have ridden in them know that AAV + Mojave Desert = being violently tossed around. Well, the MG lost control of his 240B and it flew into my PEQ16. Thanks God it wasn't my knee cause that wouldn't have been pretty Haha damn, at least it was an issued PEQ 16 I thought the Marines still used the 240 Golf, do you ever see anymore of those or is it all phased to 240 Bravos now? |
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In the absence of a plan, move toward the sound of gunfire and kill everything.
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Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Good points of view as always Augee. One thing I've wondered is why we find so many commercially sold 553's that are marked SU-231/PEQ, but for the EXPS I've only seen them SU-231A/PEQ marked on actual military supplied EXPS' Just makes me wonder why they decided to change it this go-round View Quote I was talking to the Eotech reps at Shot Show last week. They said only the models that go to SOCOM are tested for the 66ft/553 and 33ft/EXPS3 water depth rating, the ones that go to commercial are only tested to a few meters. He added that the units that end up going to commercial market are not built any different, and would probably pass just the same...they are just not put through that test. So maybe the SU marked units are the tested units? Just a guess. Also, say goodbye to the 553. It is officially discontinued per the reps at Shot Show. The EXPS3 will be fielded instead. |
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Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.
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Originally Posted By M4A1:
I was talking to the Eotech reps at Shot Show last week. They said only the models that go to SOCOM are tested for water depth (this goes for the 553 and EXPS3), the ones that go to commercial are only tested to a meter. He added that the units that end up going to commercial market are not built any different, and would probably pass just the same...they are just not put through the test. So maybe the SU marked units are the tested units? Just a guess. Also, say goodbye to the 553. It is officially discontinued per the reps at Shot Show. The EXPS3 will be fielded instead. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By M4A1:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Good points of view as always Augee. One thing I've wondered is why we find so many commercially sold 553's that are marked SU-231/PEQ, but for the EXPS I've only seen them SU-231A/PEQ marked on actual military supplied EXPS' Just makes me wonder why they decided to change it this go-round I was talking to the Eotech reps at Shot Show last week. They said only the models that go to SOCOM are tested for water depth (this goes for the 553 and EXPS3), the ones that go to commercial are only tested to a meter. He added that the units that end up going to commercial market are not built any different, and would probably pass just the same...they are just not put through the test. So maybe the SU marked units are the tested units? Just a guess. Also, say goodbye to the 553. It is officially discontinued per the reps at Shot Show. The EXPS3 will be fielded instead. That may be so. Even some 553's arent SU marked, so it makes you wonder. I noticed their 2 new models they have out, the only thing that stood out to me was the fact they take AA's, which is definitely a good thing. Ive found I actually prefer the old rear user interface though. Never really cared for the side buttons on my EXPS |
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In the absence of a plan, move toward the sound of gunfire and kill everything.
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Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
That may be so. Even some 553's arent SU marked, so it makes you wonder. I noticed their 2 new models they have out, the only thing that stood out to me was the fact they take AA's, which is definitely a good thing. Ive found I actually prefer the old rear user interface though. Never really cared for the side buttons on my EXPS View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By M4A1:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Good points of view as always Augee. One thing I've wondered is why we find so many commercially sold 553's that are marked SU-231/PEQ, but for the EXPS I've only seen them SU-231A/PEQ marked on actual military supplied EXPS' Just makes me wonder why they decided to change it this go-round I was talking to the Eotech reps at Shot Show last week. They said only the models that go to SOCOM are tested for water depth (this goes for the 553 and EXPS3), the ones that go to commercial are only tested to a meter. He added that the units that end up going to commercial market are not built any different, and would probably pass just the same...they are just not put through the test. So maybe the SU marked units are the tested units? Just a guess. Also, say goodbye to the 553. It is officially discontinued per the reps at Shot Show. The EXPS3 will be fielded instead. That may be so. Even some 553's arent SU marked, so it makes you wonder. I noticed their 2 new models they have out, the only thing that stood out to me was the fact they take AA's, which is definitely a good thing. Ive found I actually prefer the old rear user interface though. Never really cared for the side buttons on my EXPS +1 I've always like the rear interface as well. |
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Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.
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Originally Posted By Roadblock:
Discontinued was most likely the wrong word. DD said they wouldn't be selling any of the "rails" in FDE at all and that they would still offer them in "Black" but I don't see any of those around much either. They said the reason was to fill a Military contract. Right after that is when those complete MK18 and M4-A1 uppers started to be offered and then their full rifles based on the same builds. I think what was meant was that they suspended the sales of those rails for the near future until they finish their Mil contract and finish milking the clone market! ;) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Roadblock:
Originally Posted By Augee:
While it makes things more inconvenient for us cloners - considering the matter from DD's point of view, with a very limited number of RIS IIs to offer for commercial sale - their "M4A1" line is one of their "flagship" products. When you're running a business and trying to keep your brand alive - you do not want to be turning people away from buying your flagship product, it's not necessarily about making money per se, but something a little bit more intangible, but arguably far more important. At the end of the day, if someone builds a put-together upper using a DD rail, and various odds and ends and bits and pieces, Daniel Defense doesn't really... "gain" much from that, versus what they stand to gain from keeping their flagship product available to people who want to buy them, where they don't just represent a DD rail - but a complete DD product. I'm not sure where the rumor that the RIS II was being discontinued came from, as far as I know, DD has continually made it clear that they're going to be of limited availability while they fulfill military orders - but they will be back - they're trying to rapidly field enough units to equip a relatively large component within SOCOM - once they're back to simply sustaining the force, there's not going to be as much of a "shortage." So, I suppose, if you're a "must have it now" type, then yeah, your choice is really pretty much to pay the piper. Personally, I'm still working on my "MK 12 for 2012" build, so waiting a little bit is no issue. ~Augee Discontinued was most likely the wrong word. DD said they wouldn't be selling any of the "rails" in FDE at all and that they would still offer them in "Black" but I don't see any of those around much either. They said the reason was to fill a Military contract. Right after that is when those complete MK18 and M4-A1 uppers started to be offered and then their full rifles based on the same builds. I think what was meant was that they suspended the sales of those rails for the near future until they finish their Mil contract and finish milking the clone market! ;) Are you confusing "not available for individual sale" with "only available on complete uppers?" Last I knew they were still available for sale on complete uppers on the commercial market & I have't heard of that changing. I'm not privy to all the e-mail comm, however. |
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"Stay Alert, Stay Alive."- Me
"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under." "Poor prior planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine." |
Eotech fixed the battery connection problem way back in 2007/2008 time frame for the mil & would send out the modification kit to everyone else for free if you contacted them about your 553 that didn't function correctly.
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"Stay Alert, Stay Alive."- Me
"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under." "Poor prior planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine." |
Originally Posted By warpig8654: Are you confusing "not available for individual sale" with "only available on complete uppers?" Last I knew they were still available for sale on complete uppers on the commercial market & I have't heard of that changing. I'm not privy to all the e-mail comm, however. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By warpig8654: Originally Posted By Roadblock: Originally Posted By Augee: While it makes things more inconvenient for us cloners - considering the matter from DD's point of view, with a very limited number of RIS IIs to offer for commercial sale - their "M4A1" line is one of their "flagship" products. When you're running a business and trying to keep your brand alive - you do not want to be turning people away from buying your flagship product, it's not necessarily about making money per se, but something a little bit more intangible, but arguably far more important. At the end of the day, if someone builds a put-together upper using a DD rail, and various odds and ends and bits and pieces, Daniel Defense doesn't really... "gain" much from that, versus what they stand to gain from keeping their flagship product available to people who want to buy them, where they don't just represent a DD rail - but a complete DD product. I'm not sure where the rumor that the RIS II was being discontinued came from, as far as I know, DD has continually made it clear that they're going to be of limited availability while they fulfill military orders - but they will be back - they're trying to rapidly field enough units to equip a relatively large component within SOCOM - once they're back to simply sustaining the force, there's not going to be as much of a "shortage." So, I suppose, if you're a "must have it now" type, then yeah, your choice is really pretty much to pay the piper. Personally, I'm still working on my "MK 12 for 2012" build, so waiting a little bit is no issue. ~Augee Discontinued was most likely the wrong word. DD said they wouldn't be selling any of the "rails" in FDE at all and that they would still offer them in "Black" but I don't see any of those around much either. They said the reason was to fill a Military contract. Right after that is when those complete MK18 and M4-A1 uppers started to be offered and then their full rifles based on the same builds. I think what was meant was that they suspended the sales of those rails for the near future until they finish their Mil contract and finish milking the clone market! ;) Are you confusing "not available for individual sale" with "only available on complete uppers?" Last I knew they were still available for sale on complete uppers on the commercial market & I have't heard of that changing. I'm not privy to all the e-mail comm, however. That was the way I understood it. They suspended the sales of M4-A1 RIS II, M4-A1 RIS II FSP, MK18 rails in FDE etc on there own due to come military contract, cough cough. However the kept offering to build compete uppers and they NOW sell full M4-A1 rifles and Mk18's. I knew they always built the uppers even before this but they never really advertised it hardcore. Now they do. I speculate they COULD sell FDE rails if they wanted to but they are now cashing in on the Clone craze. DD isn't stupid, they know most of us just want to buy rails and throw COLT parts at them. They also know everyone and their brother, BCM, Noveske, a dozen other companies etc was offering fully built BLOCK II / Mk18 uppers and rfiles but why allow that when you can corner the market on your own by now allowing the rails to be sold individual! Unless you score one used from someplace like our EE, or you get lucky like I did and find a new in the box RIS II in FDE just sitting in a local gun store that was unable to sell it, your stuck paying big bucks to buy either a complete upper or complete rifle from DD. Smart move from a business stand point, bad for the cloner fanboys. Like I said, I had politely pointed my frustrations when trying to find a replacement RIS II rail, over in the DD forum section and the post magically disappeared. I guess they didn't like someone pointing out the timing of all of this with them hardcore marketing their M4-A1 and MK18 lines.
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Originally Posted By Augee: DD has been selling complete receivers and rifles with FDE RIS IIs for quite a while now, far longer than the relatively recent "shortage," they just didn't advertise them - or really any of their complete rifle/upper line the same way. The "rollout" of the DD M4A1 DD MK18 coincided with a general expansion of their product offerings - but again - for obvious marketing reasons, they are often in the "forefront," because what manufacturer isn't going to use "SOCOM uses this!" as a marketing strategy if they can? Re: the SU-231/EOTech 553 failures - some things to consider - The EOTech 553 in SU-231 form is/was probably the most widely fielded EOTech model in military service, we're talking about a rate of nearly 100% across components within SOCOM, versus much smaller numbers of earlier versions - such is one of the consequences of being "officially adopted." Higher numbers in service = higher number of failures - regardless. Anyone who thinks that Aimpoints do not break has not seen milk-crates full of deadlined M68CCOs - it is what it is, it's not to say that Aimpoints are bad sights either - it's just what happens when you have that many in service being used by people with no personal stake in them (i.e. - they didn't pay out of pocket for them). Honestly, the optics I've seen with the lowest failure rate across the board are ACOGs, and they break plenty, too. Joe can break anything - this is a truism well known service-wide and beyond. Early batches of EOTech 553s had a defect with the battery compartments that was well known at the time - and EOTech sent out repair kits for them - whether or not they were installed 100% service-wide is nearly impossible to say. Meanwhile - as far as the EXPS goes - rated specs being rated specs - the EXPS has been adopted as the SU-231A/PEQ - concerns about it being tested are not grounded - once again, there are certain requirements that go along with receiving an official designation as official issue versus "used by some folks purchased COTS." Moreover, the EXPS is listed as a "CAR Hardened" Phased Replacement for the 553 - let the debates rage on from FN-ophiles about whether or not "SCARs eat optics" - the current USSOCOM standard for Visual Augmentation Systems (VAS) recognizes a distinction between "[S]CAR Hardened" and not CAR hardened. ~Augee View Quote I'm torn between just ordering a Daniel Defense complete stripped upper receiver group, w/ CHF barrel and FSP installed (complete upper, no BCG, CH or rail) for $440.00 dollars and just shaving the sight post and tossing my RIS II FDE on it and ordering a COLT SOCOM barrel and then buying a COLT flat top upper receiver and some type of gas block. Best prices I've found on the COLT route are $280.00 on the SOCOM from Grant at G&R Tactical. $150.00 on the COLT flat top upper, gas block and some type of flash hider, mostlikely Surefire. Not 100% clone kosher but I defiantly would NOT mind a full DD upper. I was thinking about getting the 16" model which includes a A2 birdcage so I could assemble is now without having to pin/weld or SBR. I have a friend who will chop, step and thread the barrel for me for beer money down the road when I get a Surefire FH. He has done them for some other friends of mine, his work is top notch as long as he doesn't drink the beer first! :) |
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Originally Posted By M4A1:
+1 I've always like the rear interface as well. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By M4A1:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Originally Posted By M4A1:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
Good points of view as always Augee. One thing I've wondered is why we find so many commercially sold 553's that are marked SU-231/PEQ, but for the EXPS I've only seen them SU-231A/PEQ marked on actual military supplied EXPS' Just makes me wonder why they decided to change it this go-round I was talking to the Eotech reps at Shot Show last week. They said only the models that go to SOCOM are tested for water depth (this goes for the 553 and EXPS3), the ones that go to commercial are only tested to a meter. He added that the units that end up going to commercial market are not built any different, and would probably pass just the same...they are just not put through the test. So maybe the SU marked units are the tested units? Just a guess. Also, say goodbye to the 553. It is officially discontinued per the reps at Shot Show. The EXPS3 will be fielded instead. That may be so. Even some 553's arent SU marked, so it makes you wonder. I noticed their 2 new models they have out, the only thing that stood out to me was the fact they take AA's, which is definitely a good thing. Ive found I actually prefer the old rear user interface though. Never really cared for the side buttons on my EXPS +1 I've always like the rear interface as well. Yeah, the rear interface is easier to use...you don't have to move the rifle as much to see the buttons. Only downside to the rear interface is when using it with a magnifier |
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Originally Posted By SuperMoose:
Wait you mean someone who goes on a shooting spree stops when they meet the possibility of resistance? What a novel fucking concept. |
Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Just because it says that on BCM's site doesn't mean it's right. They are referring to the rail itself. Not the color. The FDE is the only color provided to SOCOM units as part of the block II program. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Originally Posted By Roadblock:
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Love this thread and build discussion. I have been reading from page one, and gained a lot of information. Couple questions as I start to piece parts together for my second build. Is using the black RIS 2 instead of FDE GTG, and what about the Tango down vertgrip with the QD or the Daniel Defense ConVert Foregrip? My plan is using BCM lower, BCM SOCOM upper with pinned Mod 1, and EOTech 553. Sorry for my ignorance, as I'm still researching the best I can. Well if you want to be anal about it, it would be made from COLT or FN parts and you would use the FDE rail. That said, I've always based my BLOCK II stuff on Noveske and Daniel Defense. Also they make this stuff called spray paint. If you paint your rifle, who's to tell the difference but technically no, black is not GTG. Given how hard it is to find FDE rails at a good price though, spray paint for the win. Interesting, because the black RIS is described as part of SOPMOD 2 program for SOCOM. I guess piss canning or cerakote is an option as well. I guess the VG's are GTG, either Tango or DD. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Daniel-Defense-AR15-M4A1-RIS-II-FSP-Handguard-BLAC-p/dd%208030%20black.htm Just because it says that on BCM's site doesn't mean it's right. They are referring to the rail itself. Not the color. The FDE is the only color provided to SOCOM units as part of the block II program. This. |
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"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting." Gen Curtis LeMay
"Someday this war's gonna end..." LTC William Kilgore |
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Eotech fixed the battery connection problem way back in 2007/2008 time frame for the mil & would send out the modification kit to everyone else for free if you contacted them about your 553 that didn't function correctly. View Quote They wouldn't send me one. They wanted me to send my 553 in for the repair. No thanks I didn't want them keeping it. |
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Originally Posted By brodband8:
They wouldn't send me one. They wanted me to send my 553 in for the repair. No thanks I didn't want them keeping it. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By brodband8:
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Eotech fixed the battery connection problem way back in 2007/2008 time frame for the mil & would send out the modification kit to everyone else for free if you contacted them about your 553 that didn't function correctly. They wouldn't send me one. They wanted me to send my 553 in for the repair. No thanks I didn't want them keeping it. Wow. Was yours one of those Lawguns specials that they were confiscating? If not, that's pretty messed up they just wouldn't send you the modification kit. They just mailed me the kit for my personally owned example back then free of charge. |
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"Stay Alert, Stay Alive."- Me
"If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under." "Poor prior planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine." |
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
What I was referring to is the specs that make the 553 different from any other EOTech made to date such as it being able to dive to 66ft for 2 hours, every other model being 33ft/2 hrs or less depth than that on certain models, SOCOM put it through various drop/torture testing, that as far as I've been able to tell wasn't done on the EXPS. I'm not saying it's the most rugged optic ever made, just that it's the most rugged EOTech made in my opinion. I haven't had any of my EOTech's fail on me to be fair though (that includes an EXPS) The last thing I'm going to do is get in an argument about this, but my opinion stands. View Quote Normally, people would be jumping all over an optic that was as widely issued, abused and tested as the SU-231/553. No point in arguing; unfounded or otherwise, those who don't like EOTechs will probably never change their minds. |
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"If you kill enough of them, they stop fighting." Gen Curtis LeMay
"Someday this war's gonna end..." LTC William Kilgore |
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Wow. Was yours one of those Lawguns specials that they were confiscating? If not, that's pretty messed up they just wouldn't send you the modification kit. They just mailed me the kit for my personally owned example back then free of charge. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By brodband8:
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Eotech fixed the battery connection problem way back in 2007/2008 time frame for the mil & would send out the modification kit to everyone else for free if you contacted them about your 553 that didn't function correctly. They wouldn't send me one. They wanted me to send my 553 in for the repair. No thanks I didn't want them keeping it. Wow. Was yours one of those Lawguns specials that they were confiscating? If not, that's pretty messed up they just wouldn't send you the modification kit. They just mailed me the kit for my personally owned example back then free of charge. This, they mailed me a repair kit for one I bought off eBay once, no questions asked. |
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Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By cjwwd2:
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Originally Posted By Roadblock:
Originally Posted By NAC_Instructor:
Love this thread and build discussion. I have been reading from page one, and gained a lot of information. Couple questions as I start to piece parts together for my second build. Is using the black RIS 2 instead of FDE GTG, and what about the Tango down vertgrip with the QD or the Daniel Defense ConVert Foregrip? My plan is using BCM lower, BCM SOCOM upper with pinned Mod 1, and EOTech 553. Sorry for my ignorance, as I'm still researching the best I can. Well if you want to be anal about it, it would be made from COLT or FN parts and you would use the FDE rail. That said, I've always based my BLOCK II stuff on Noveske and Daniel Defense. Also they make this stuff called spray paint. If you paint your rifle, who's to tell the difference but technically no, black is not GTG. Given how hard it is to find FDE rails at a good price though, spray paint for the win. Interesting, because the black RIS is described as part of SOPMOD 2 program for SOCOM. I guess piss canning or cerakote is an option as well. I guess the VG's are GTG, either Tango or DD. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Daniel-Defense-AR15-M4A1-RIS-II-FSP-Handguard-BLAC-p/dd%208030%20black.htm Just because it says that on BCM's site doesn't mean it's right. They are referring to the rail itself. Not the color. The FDE is the only color provided to SOCOM units as part of the block II program. This. We covered this already, and verified it has nothing to do with BCM......DD RIS NSN for SOPMOD finish is listed as black |
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
- Sigmund Freud |
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Normally, people would be jumping all over an optic that was as widely issued, abused and tested as the SU-231/553. No point in arguing; unfounded or otherwise, those who don't like EOTechs will probably never change their minds. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
What I was referring to is the specs that make the 553 different from any other EOTech made to date such as it being able to dive to 66ft for 2 hours, every other model being 33ft/2 hrs or less depth than that on certain models, SOCOM put it through various drop/torture testing, that as far as I've been able to tell wasn't done on the EXPS. I'm not saying it's the most rugged optic ever made, just that it's the most rugged EOTech made in my opinion. I haven't had any of my EOTech's fail on me to be fair though (that includes an EXPS) The last thing I'm going to do is get in an argument about this, but my opinion stands. Normally, people would be jumping all over an optic that was as widely issued, abused and tested as the SU-231/553. No point in arguing; unfounded or otherwise, those who don't like EOTechs will probably never change their minds. This isn't an Aimpoint vs EoTech thing. EoTech isn't discontinuing and no longer fielding the 553 in favor of the EXPS3-0 because the 553 is a more rugged and superior optic. I'm sure even plenty of EoTech fans would agree with that. |
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"They are not men, they are weapons."
It's not me, it's the BRD talking. |
Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
This isn't an Aimpoint vs EoTech thing. EoTech isn't discontinuing and no longer fielding the 553 in favor of the EXPS3-0 because the 553 is a more rugged and superior optic. I'm sure even plenty of EoTech fans would agree with that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By AR-Ryan21:
Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By MILSPEC556:
What I was referring to is the specs that make the 553 different from any other EOTech made to date such as it being able to dive to 66ft for 2 hours, every other model being 33ft/2 hrs or less depth than that on certain models, SOCOM put it through various drop/torture testing, that as far as I've been able to tell wasn't done on the EXPS. I'm not saying it's the most rugged optic ever made, just that it's the most rugged EOTech made in my opinion. I haven't had any of my EOTech's fail on me to be fair though (that includes an EXPS) The last thing I'm going to do is get in an argument about this, but my opinion stands. Normally, people would be jumping all over an optic that was as widely issued, abused and tested as the SU-231/553. No point in arguing; unfounded or otherwise, those who don't like EOTechs will probably never change their minds. This isn't an Aimpoint vs EoTech thing. EoTech isn't discontinuing and no longer fielding the 553 in favor of the EXPS3-0 because the 553 is a more rugged and superior optic. I'm sure even plenty of EoTech fans would agree with that. It's also safe to say that you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about on any topic. Anybody that just got made to look like a complete dumbass by claiming KAC makes well documented 80k round barrels, then gets found out that by "well documented" means you read ONE SENTENCE about it, EVER. Then in the same day you think a dudes weaponlight was his muzzle device? Anybody that would trust your opinion would have to be straight up mentally challenged. |
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In the absence of a plan, move toward the sound of gunfire and kill everything.
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