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Posted: 2/11/2010 10:19:50 AM EDT
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I am looking at several companies in order to purchase a Mk 12 Mod 1 upper. I am looking for any info on these companies. Which company has a true clone, better fit/finish, correct parts, more accurate, any other info. Let me know your opinions.
http://www.highcalibersales.com/Site/Home.html http://www.centurionarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=116&Itemid=138 I would rather not build it myself. Don't have the time right now. Thanks |
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I thought about Adco, but they aren't as close to a true Mk12.
Adco's specs: Adco Custom MK12 Mod1 Style with OPS INC brake/collar WOA 1:7 SS SPR barrel KG Koted WOA Upper Receiver M4 feed ramps WOA Bolt Colt M16 Carrier SPR Gas block DD 12.0 Rail OPS INC Brake/collar Might be a better rifle, but the Mk 12 doesn't come with WOA anything, or a DD rail. |
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I have similar interests and questions. I've seen the descriptions at all 4 sites, but the first two seem to be the most accurate. I need to go back and do a detailed breakdown between Centurion and Highcaliber. I know from reading on various threads that Monty at Centurion is in the military and "in the know" of how the real rifles are being used, etc. The base prices are exactly the same when you include the same items, I just have not taken my analysis any further yet. I plan to do that over the weekend and make a decision to buy soon. At first as I was reading about them and learning, I thought I "had" to make it 100% the same. But as I've learned that could get pretty expensive since a lot of the parts are KAC, etc. So I am debating how much do I focus my money on the "look" vs. "the real parts" vs. using similar parts (rails, sights, etc.) and put the money towards other things, like getting a suppressor. Authentic optics get pricy too, etc. So I've backed off trying to make it a perfect "clone", but I'd like to try to adopt as much of the meaningful, functional elements of the real one and then subsitute as needed. I really want to get my understanding of what I need to do to get a suppressor started too and order an OPS inc 12 to match. very expensive from what little research I've put into that yet. But, if you don't get it, then do you really "need" the brake/collar? ETA: I'm leaning toward Centurion for a few reasons, but i've read some owners accounts of the accuracy they are getting, plus its supposed to be the same barrel that is really used by the military, etc. So lots of substance besides just the look. |
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High caliber sales is operated partly by Alan Brown. Who used to work at Crane. This info is on the website.
“I have known and worked with Alan Brown for years and expect the quality of these builds to be the best and most authentic that is available in the commercial market. We (KAC) wish them good luck and are glad to be able to support them. The Mk-12 is a shining example of "the system" working and the ability of gov't and industry being able to work together to get a product out in the field that can make a real difference.” Alan Brown Alan has been involved with firearms “forever”. Professionally he has been involved, to varying degrees, in the development, testing, and building of several weapon platforms for the United States Military. This took place at his previous “day job” at a major government facility in southern Indiana. He also pursues his “outside job” to include the building of quality, highly accurate, tactical and hunting rifles. Don't know which place would be better, but I agree Centurion, and High Caliber seem closer to the real thing. I'd also agree that the KAC parts are expensive, but still think I'd like a as close mk 12 clone as possible. Hope to have funds for that Night Force, and Ops Inc suppressor, as well. |
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Quoted: High caliber sales is operated partly by Alan Brown. Who used to work at Crane. This info is on the website. “I have known and worked with Alan Brown for years and expect the quality of these builds to be the best and most authentic that is available in the commercial market. We (KAC) wish them good luck and are glad to be able to support them. The Mk-12 is a shining example of "the system" working and the ability of gov't and industry being able to work together to get a product out in the field that can make a real difference.” Alan Brown Alan has been involved with firearms “forever”. Professionally he has been involved, to varying degrees, in the development, testing, and building of several weapon platforms for the United States Military. This took place at his previous “day job” at a major government facility in southern Indiana. He also pursues his “outside job” to include the building of quality, highly accurate, tactical and hunting rifles. Don't know which place would be better, but I agree Centurion, and High Caliber seem closer to the real thing. I'd also agree that the KAC parts are expensive, but still think I'd like a as close mk 12 clone as possible. Hope to have funds for that Night Force, and Ops Inc suppressor, as well. Good info, well they seem even closer then. Like I said, I'm just starting the detailed comparison. I can see two ways to do it, build a clone or build one thats "close enough". individual thing. Have you checked out this very long thread http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=294303&page=60? tons of great info. I also found a lot by searching over at M4carbine.net on "mk12". Lots of good info regarding Centurion there. HC is not far from me in the Indy area so I was thinking of giving them a call and seeing if they have any storefront hours and see if I can check one out face to face. |
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What I did was bought all of the parts for a true clone and then sent them to ADCO for assembly. I'm very happy with the way it turned out
Colt M4 upper and Colt BCG, PRI Gasbuster CH Douglas 18" stainless SPR barrel from Compass Lake Engineering, OPS INC. brake-collar KAC FF 12" rail and KAC gas block Sabre Defence lower with KAC two stage trigger 
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Adco can and will build it for you with the correct KAC parts but it may be a while.
The KAC parts seem to be in short supply and are more expensive than the DD and other parts. Email or call them and they will let you know a price and time frame. I would not go with anyone else if it were me. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
High caliber sales is operated partly by Alan Brown. Who used to work at Crane. This info is on the website. “I have known and worked with Alan Brown for years and expect the quality of these builds to be the best and most authentic that is available in the commercial market. We (KAC) wish them good luck and are glad to be able to support them. The Mk-12 is a shining example of "the system" working and the ability of gov't and industry being ab to work together to get a product out in the field that can make a real difference.†Alan Brown Alan has been involved with firearms “foreverâ€. Professionally he has been involved, to varying degrees, in the development, testing, and building of several weapon platforms for the United States Military. This took place at his previous “day job†at a major government facility in southern Indiana. He also pursues his “outside job†to include the building of quality, highly accurate, tactical and hunting rifles. Don't know which place would be better, but I agree Centurion, and High Caliber seem closer to the real thing. I'd also agree that the KAC parts are expensive, but still think I'd like a as close mk 12 clone as possible. Hope to have funds for that Night Force, and Ops Inc suppressor, as well. Good info, well they seem even closer then. Like I said, I'm just starting the detailed comparison. I can see two ways to do it, build a clone or build one thats "closendividual thing. Have you checked out this very long thread http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=294303&page=60? tons of great info. I also found a lot by searching over at M4carbine.net on "mk12". Lots of good info regarding Centurion there. HC is not far from me in the Indy area so I was thinking of giving them a call and seeing if they have any storefront hours and see if I can check one out face to face. I have read that super long post here on AR15. Learned quite a bit, and I've read some of the stuff on M4carbine.net. Larry Vickers had good things to say about centurion. If you get to speak with or better yet go to see/meet the folks from High Caliber Sales. PM me with the info, if you don't mind. Especially if it is down the road a bit before you get to stop by or chat with them. It may be a possibility to have Adco build up a MK12 for me, but the parts are sometimes hard to find. I have heard/ read good things about Adco. Any reason why you would only go with them? Thanks |
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Once I reach out to them I'll be happy to let you know. I am going to try to set up a visit to Indy in the next few weeks for work and it would be nice to drop by and see what they have, if they have a store. I think it was all of the posts on M4carbine.net, esp the ones from Larry Vickers that really got me going on the mk12 and Centurion. Then i found about about HC. I just went to the Centurion website to check out more details and they don't have the mk12 upper listed on their store, just under their product description area. I posted on their forum, but there are only 3 posts total so I am not sure how often it gets checked. After reading this thread and all of the other mk12 threads I'm really getting the urge to do something. I just want to really dig into the specs and make the decision on the details, esp since so many of the parts and options are so pricey. The optics will be a big decision, plus don't forget ammo. Everything about this upper is focused on the 77g round (mk262 I think). Black Hills makes it and apparently you can pick up "seconds", but I have yet to find where that is or costs. finally, I have nothing against ADCO. Always looking to support a site sponser. I was checking into all of their details and posts, but got distracted by the Centurion and HC sites. There are highly recomennded here on ar15.com as well as other places. getting them to assemble one is still an option in my mind. I did read more about the KAC URX rails and thats got me all confused now too. lol. I am putting together a baseline of specs and costs to do a "clone" then I'll look at what it will cost to make changes, then decide. happy to share that with you. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
High caliber sales is operated partly by Alan Brown. Who used to work at Crane. This info is on the website. “I have known and worked with Alan Brown for years and expect the quality of these builds to be the best and most authentic that is available in the commercial market. We (KAC) wish them good luck and are glad to be able to support them. The Mk-12 is a shining example of "the system" working and the ability of gov't and industry being ab to work together to get a product out in the field that can make a real difference.†Alan Brown Alan has been involved with firearms “foreverâ€. Professionally he has been involved, to varying degrees, in the development, testing, and building of several weapon platforms for the United States Military. This took place at his previous “day job†at a major government facility in southern Indiana. He also pursues his “outside job†to include the building of quality, highly accurate, tactical and hunting rifles. Don't know which place would be better, but I agree Centurion, and High Caliber seem closer to the real thing. I'd also agree that the KAC parts are expensive, but still think I'd like a as close mk 12 clone as possible. Hope to have funds for that Night Force, and Ops Inc suppressor, as well. Good info, well they seem even closer then. Like I said, I'm just starting the detailed comparison. I can see two ways to do it, build a clone or build one thats "closendividual thing. Have you checked out this very long thread http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=294303&page=60? tons of great info. I also found a lot by searching over at M4carbine.net on "mk12". Lots of good info regarding Centurion there. HC is not far from me in the Indy area so I was thinking of giving them a call and seeing if they have any storefront hours and see if I can check one out face to face. I have read that super long post here on AR15. Learned quite a bit, and I've read some of the stuff on M4carbine.net. Larry Vickers had good things to say about centurion. If you get to speak with or better yet go to see/meet the folks from High Caliber Sales. PM me with the info, if you don't mind. Especially if it is down the road a bit before you get to stop by or chat with them. It may be a possibility to have Adco build up a MK12 for me, but the parts are sometimes hard to find. I have heard/ read good things about Adco. Any reason why you would only go with them? Thanks ADCO has done at least a dozen jobs for me, assembly, reparking, permanently attaching FHs and they always do a great job. In addition turnaround is about two days once they get it. I started gathering the components for my Mark 12 in early 2009. I remember it took about two months to finally corral them all.. Of course that ws at the height of the panic. |
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Nuke Em, I appreciate any info you come up with. Thanks
J Crowl, did you purchase most of the parts from one location/source? Nice to continue to hear good things about Adco. I noticed the industry partner here responded quite a few times during the Huge Mk12 post. He seems like a good guy. I'm definitely going to mull over the possibility of having Adco build one for me. Probably would depend on build times. |
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Nuke Em, I appreciate any info you come up with. Thanks J Crowl, did you purchase most of the parts from one location/source? Nice to continue to hear good things about Adco. I noticed the industry partner here responded quite a few times during the Huge Mk12 post. He seems like a good guy. I'm definitely going to mull over the possibility of having Adco build one for me. Probably would depend on build times. It was mainly here and there, depending on who had the particular part in stock. The KAC rails I got from MSTN, the Colt upper and BCG from Autoweapons, The BUIS from Operation Parts I believe, the barrel from CLE, the OPS INC Brake from Rainier Arms |
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check out Mid-South Tactical Network, they do some great work and have quite a few pics of their custom uppers in the classifieds section, I'm pretty sure they can build what you're looking for, you can see their work here... http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=376359 Wes is building me a sweet ass 16" middy right now and they're great to work with, very quick on answering your questions, even if they don't have the part you want, you can order from somewhere else and have it sent to them for the build. |
| For some one who doesn't have much experience building the ar15 type rifle, is it still feasible to build a mk12 upper and obtain the match grade accuracy? I haven't done anything more than install a free float rail, but it looks like it might be slightly cheaper to buy individual parts and assemble myself. Is there any secrets to building a match grade upper that a first timer might miss? |
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Adco is a great company, however, I agree with hat someone said earlier about getting your own parts and sending them is a PITA. Which was a big reason I placed an order with HC, there is so many variants and manufacturers out there, that me finding all the correct components seemed challenging. HC seemed closer to the "original" and Kevin was great to deal with. They have only a smalll week or 2 backlog time. My upper and lower should be done in a week or so and when i receive it i'll post pictures.
Basically it will be close but not all the way HC kac railed upper with ops brake Kac e-3 lower with 2 stage Kac trigger (I live in Nj there was no way in hell I could get an m-16 auto lower, let alone a colt ar15 lower without saying match target), not to mention that the Kac comes with Ambi controls, built in QD cup and awesome Kac trigger guard. I'llbe going with the Kac reg rear BUIS and the BAD ASS New Micro adjust front BUIS. I had emailed Kev at Kac and he confirmed that the new front sight will work just fine with the reg size rear. HC also offers NV NF 2.5-10x24 which I'll be doing with a set of High NF rings. I believe this is all Nav spec. A1 stock, which i will probably change to prs but we'll see how it goes. Kac bipod mount harris BRM-s with pod loc |
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Quoted:
Adco is a great company, however, I agree with hat someone said earlier about getting your own parts and sending them is a PITA. Which was a big reason I placed an order with HC, there is so many variants and manufacturers out there, that me finding all the correct components seemed challenging. HC seemed closer to the "original" and Kevin was great to deal with. They have only a smalll week or 2 backlog time. My upper and lower should be done in a week or so and when i receive it i'll post pictures. Basically it will be close but not all the way HC kac railed upper with ops brake Kac e-3 lower with 2 stage Kac trigger (I live in Nj there was no way in hell I could get an m-16 auto lower, let alone a colt ar15 lower without saying match target), not to mention that the Kac comes with Ambi controls, built in QD cup and awesome Kac trigger guard. I'llbe going with the Kac reg rear BUIS and the BAD ASS New Micro adjust front BUIS. I had emailed Kev at Kac and he confirmed that the new front sight will work just fine with the reg size rear. HC also offers NV NF 2.5-10x24 which I'll be doing with a set of High NF rings. I believe this is all Nav spec. A1 stock, which i will probably change to prs but we'll see how it goes. Kac bipod mount harris BRM-s with pod loc I'll be looking forward to your post. Pics, and hopefully a review after you take it out to the range. Sounds like a sweet setup. I hope HC hooks you up, and it turns out to be the rifle you had hoped. thanks |
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