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Posted: 11/17/2012 4:50:42 AM EDT
| I'm starting a new build and decided upon a KISS rifle. I went with a 14.7 inch, CHF, 1/7 Mid-length gas, A2 profiled barrel. All I've ever had is carbine and rifle gas system guns that shoot everything I've fed them. I don't/won't shoot cheap steel cased ammo, just a personal choice. I figured its time for a middy since members here seem to love them. I've read some accounts of the middy gassed rifle's not liking all ammo, especially the stuff that's light on power. For instance, I shoot a lot of PMC Bronze in .223. Tell me your experiences with the middy and the problems you've had, if any using underpowered ammo. Thanks! |
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Quoted: The 14" middys "can" have problems, I think most of them have the correct gas ports now.I'm starting a new build and decided upon a KISS rifle. I went with a 14.7 inch, CHF, 1/7 Mid-length gas, If it has a problem its a easy fix. That does not mean they aren't reliable. My 14.5 LW middy is now my go to rifle whenever I go to the range |
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I also have several middies, they've never given me any problems.
About 99% of the problems I am aware of with middies, have been when users are using Tula 223 ammo. You said you don't plan to use steel cased ammo, you'll be ok. Mine love steel and brass cased ammo equally, (but I don't shoot Tula ammo in my middies). Many instructors have made the switch to middies, they don't do this to create problems. Edit  ––> I do shoot Tula steel 5.45 ammo in one middie, over 8k rds with no reliability problems.
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Middy's have become my favorite set up. I run a full auto BCG and a "H" buffer. I feed them Federal M193 , which is a fairly warm round. Have not seen any problems.
If feeding cooler ammo presents any problems, just switch to a standard carbine buffer and you should be good to go. The reason why I like my set up is the guns have little to no kick, even with the hotter ammo. 
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I like the middy cause my OKC3C U.S.M.C. bayonet fits on it like an O gazim. Stik n move btch. F obama OK on the serious side. I also read all that stuff before I went middy but have had no issues. Also I think the PMC stuff is GTG. Use it alot and like it . Also like the brass. |
| Thank you Gentlemen! I appreciate the feedback and it's nice to know reliability with any ammo is not a problem. To the member that said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "that manufacturers got the port size correct and have for a while", that's comforting to know. The 14.7 inch CHF barrel I bought is a PSA; (FN) barrel. All I shoot is Federal XM193 and XM855, Federal bulk pack .223, PMC Bronze .223, and PMC X-Tac for what it's worth... |
| My DD middy will not shoot any Russian made steel cased crap. It has worked reliably with every other round I have fed it without a single issue. This includes X193, M855, PMC bronze, PMC X-tac, PPU 55gr, and Hornady Zombies. Since you don't shoot Russian crap anyway....you should be fine. |
| I've had a coupleof middies, and neither of them ever missed a beat. My current one is a Spikes 14.5" and I've never had a FTF or FTE with PMC, Fiocchi, Black Hills, American Eagle Black Box or anything else I've fed it. I have not tried any of the Roosky crap in any of my guns. |
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You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together.
I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all. |
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You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together. I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all. That is why my DelTon will run anything and the guy's with the big buck rigs need expensive ammo to run at all. 
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The 14" middys "can" have problems, I think most of them have the correct gas ports now.
I'm starting a new build and decided upon a KISS rifle. I went with a 14.7 inch, CHF, 1/7 Mid-length gas, If it has a problem its a easy fix. That does not mean they aren't reliable. My 14.5 LW middy is now my go to rifle whenever I go to the range This. I haven't had any problems with my 14.5" LW middy either. And all the 16" middys I have have been uber reliable with all types of ammunition as well. |
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You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together. I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all. That is why my DelTon will run anything and the guy's with the big buck rigs need expensive ammo to run at all. Huh? |
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You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together. I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all. That is why my DelTon will run anything and the guy's with the big buck rigs need expensive ammo to run at all. Huh? I'm going to guess he's talking about rifles like the Larue or SR15 that don't always function properly with .223 pressure ammunition with out a change in buffer weight or spring strength. It doesn't seem to happen to everyone, but it definitely happens. I want a rifle to feed everything from crap Tula in 10 degree weather to hot M855 in 110 degree weather. I prefer 14.5's with a carbine gas system and pencil profile. |
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You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together. I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all. That is why my DelTon will run anything and the guy's with the big buck rigs need expensive ammo to run at all. I wouldn't laugh so fast. I have a co-worker at my part time job that always complains his Delton won't shoot Brown Bear or Tula without FTE issues. At the end of the day, any rifle can be picky, regardless of manufacturer. |
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I picked up a 14.5" Noveske Middy last August. It's since had about 3,000 rounds through it. I have run the gun dry and dirty more often than anyone here would recommend. Most of what I shoot through it is cheap brass cased .223 pressure 55 grain loads. So far, the weapon has ZERO malfunctions.
I'll be interested in carbine length gas and/or piston systems the day that half the BULLSHIT I've heard about mid-length gas comes true.
ETA - I think a lot of problems you hear about with mid-lengths is when guys get them from places where they don't bore out the gas port to the proper size, or the guys just aren't using the proper buffer for their application. This is why WHERE/WHO you buy from can make all the difference in the world, in my opinion. |
| I just finished my first AR15 earlier this week and got the chance to take it out today. It's a 16" midlength, and I shot 500 rounds that were a combination of PMC and Tulammo .223. No issues to mention. I'm currently running a carbine buffer, so I'm not sure how it would work with an H or H2, but it was pretty smooth anyways so I doubt I'll change it. |
| My Spikes middy has been flawless from day one - I've put high end ammo through it, as well as the cheapest crap I can find and it eats it like a fat kid at a dessert bar. Love it - IMHO the middy is one of the best AR variants you can get. Not to say a carbine isn't reliable, but the middy offers a few advantages I am privy to. |
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I have two 14.7" rifles, both middies.
One has a complete PSA lighter profile upper, the other I built from a 16" PSA lighter profile barrel I picked up off the EE and shortened myself. Before I pout the GB on, I measured the gas port in case in case it was too small. It measured .078" which is pretty large, so I left it alone and assembled the upper. Both rifles run Wolf without missing a beat and hold open the bolt on the last round. Joe |
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You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together. I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all. That is why my DelTon will run anything and the guy's with the big buck rigs need expensive ammo to run at all. If your rifle cycles cheap under-powered ammo flawlessly, then it's because you have a lighter buffer and possibly a weaker spring. In that case, I'd almost bet you money you would be replacing some parts after a few thousand rounds of hot 5.56 loads. Del-Ton realizes that guys who buy cheap rifles are going to want to shoot cheap ammo and they will rarely, if ever, use good/hot ammo. So yes, your rifle may shoot that stuff just fine, but it's at the expense of durability when firing hotter ammo. And there's nothing wrong with that - it makes sens if you plan to use your rifle more for plinking than killing stuff. I use my "big bucks" rifle to kill stuff as large as coyotes on my property, so I prefer to use and practice with hotter, more accurate loads. When I can get XM193 for 35 cents a round and 77 grain Black Hills for 72 cents a round, I just don't have the need to try cheaper ammo, and I never have. If I want to shoot cheap and just get in a little trigger time, I get out one of my 10/22's. ETA - if you want good, accurate ammo on the cheap, PRVI Partizan has 69 and 77 grain 223 loads that can be had for 50 cents a round. They're not loaded super hot, so they would be ideal for a rifle set up to shoot lower powered stuff. |
| Thanks to all that have replied. It's good to hear so many positive responses. Now the question is: What weight buffer and spring should I run this middy upper with? I shoot FED XM and the X-Tac 5.56 pressure stuff 75% of the time and the .223 PMC and Federal Bulk 25% of the time... I appreciate the responses... |
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The go-to/standard combo for a 14.5" or 16" mid would be a standard spring and an H buffer.
I run that combo in a few mids, and never a single hiccup. I also run a Sprinco blue spring with an H2 in a few mids. This combo is smooth as butter. Never a single hiccup with that combo ever. Only issue I've ever run into here was just one of my ARs wouldn't lock the bolt back after the last round with lower powered PMC Bronze. |
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The go-to/standard combo for a 14.5" or 16" mid would be a standard spring and an H buffer. I run that combo in a few mids, and never a single hiccup. I also run a Sprinco blue spring with an H2 in a few mids. This combo is smooth as butter. Never a single hiccup with that combo ever. Only issue I've ever run into here was just one of my ARs wouldn't lock the bolt back after the last round with lower powered PMC Bronze. Good to know... Would using a Spikes Tactical -T2 Tungsten buffer be a problem? I see on Spikes site that they sell their standard Middy's with the same buffer that they use on their carbine rifles. |
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Quoted: Quoted: You don't get reliability from being a carbine vs. midlength, you get it from all of the factors and components being quality, done right, and working together. I've seen midlengths that have run with 100% reliability, and I've seen them that didn't work well at all. That is why my DelTon will run anything and the guy's with the big buck rigs need expensive ammo to run at all. No, it's because your rifle is over gassed because when you buy a cheap rifle they assume you're going to buy cheap ammo. The opposite is true of people who buy expensive rigs. That being said, I love my middy.
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The go-to/standard combo for a 14.5" or 16" mid would be a standard spring and an H buffer. I run that combo in a few mids, and never a single hiccup. I also run a Sprinco blue spring with an H2 in a few mids. This combo is smooth as butter. Never a single hiccup with that combo ever. Only issue I've ever run into here was just one of my ARs wouldn't lock the bolt back after the last round with lower powered PMC Bronze. Good to know... Would using a Spikes Tactical -T2 Tungsten buffer be a problem? I see on Spikes site that they sell their standard Middy's with the same buffer that they use on their carbine rifles. Mine hasn't given me a problem at all. Spike's 14.5 with Dynacomp, ST-T2 and standard spring. Smooth set up. Couple of RSO's were commenting on how there was almost no muzzle rise the other day. |
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The go-to/standard combo for a 14.5" or 16" mid would be a standard spring and an H buffer. I run that combo in a few mids, and never a single hiccup. I also run a Sprinco blue spring with an H2 in a few mids. This combo is smooth as butter. Never a single hiccup with that combo ever. Only issue I've ever run into here was just one of my ARs wouldn't lock the bolt back after the last round with lower powered PMC Bronze. Good to know... Would using a Spikes Tactical -T2 Tungsten buffer be a problem? I see on Spikes site that they sell their standard Middy's with the same buffer that they use on their carbine rifles. I don't recommend them due to the lack of buffering, which the standard construction buffers provide. |
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