AR Sponsor
Posted: 11/13/2006 5:41:05 PM EDT
|
CLP is old technology being replaced as we speak by the US tri-services with Mil-Comm's tw-25b. The TW-25B oil, like any synthetic oil formulation, will separate. Extensive US tri-service tests have proven that such separation can be remedied by a quick shake, even though amazingly, the performance of the product is not hindered. The TW-25B sister, MC-3000, used on the F-16, stirs itself once those birds leave the ground. After initial application, TW-25B coats the surface for long term protection. Bestdefense.com sells i think all of the packagings of tw-25b. Maybe I'm safer over here....don't tell anybody. Hammered my ass over there..... I read the post in bold above from another forum and the guy is right. I posted an opinion about rifle lubrication. I said the nasty words Simple Green and hit the mat pretty hard. DON'T USE SIMPLE GREEN and MILITEC is a metal conditioner not a lube but if you want to use it for a lube I don't care. I'm only sharing my experiences like the rest of you. This is about a great lube I've tried. I'm in the military defense industry and while out of town I've used all kinds of lubes on my collection. I know folks like CLP and that's okay but if you leave your rifle in the safe or vehicle for a long period of time in warm or hot weather the CLP will dry up. Some law-enforcement use Militec or Gunbutter because it stays the same months even a year later. So when you pull your AR-15 and run a quick check, go shooting. Gunbutter was developed by Avionics engineers but not sure about Militec. I bought some Mil-Comm MC3000 because a AF RU boy told me they use the lube on the F-16 and A-10 main gun. For their M-4's they use the white cream tw-25b but I bought some MC3000. It's different then the white cream. I applied like it said, oiled a patch and applied only to a shine but not too much. That is the best stuff I've ever used. It stays on and doesn't change after long periods of storage. After I shoot the piss out of my weapon in the desert, it doesn't dry up looks the same. I do live in WA but I get around. I use good o'le CLP for rust prevention. I figure this much, if those two birds can handle that lube under extreme stress I figure my AR-15 will be ok. I do notice easier cleaning (I treated my AR-15 with Militec) after shooting. Try MC3000 order it off the MIL-COMM web page I think you will like it. Gunbutter I didn't like messing around with little red dots and wipe it with my little finger. The rag method is faster for me. Maybe I can sneak outta here.... |
|
Both CLP and Mil-Comm are good. I know another individual who is a retired SEAL said about MC3000 "That's good shit". And the A-10 gun is wiped down with MC3000. I used MC3000 tonight on my new 6.8spc upper with a few drops on a rag, nice mirror surface on the parts and slick. CLP everywhere else for rust prevention. I didn't like Gunbutter because you put a few drops on a patch and it disappears into the patch hardly any gets on the metal. You end up putting a few drops of Gunbutter on your little finger and takes forever. MC3000 job is done quick with a rag and the stuff spreads and does not burn off. I've seen at matches where shooter used Rem oil and after the shoot there is nothing but bare metal. |
|
According to the MC-3000 MSDS, it contains several different types of esters in the base oil...should be good stuff. I'm not a fan of grease either, so this may even be better than TW-25B. That first post that you quoted sounds familiar. Can you state what board it was on? (PM me if you like) He is wrong on several counts. 
TW25B is a grease, not an oil. The PTFE thickener will separate out because it mixes and sticks to nothing but itself. Synthetic oils don't separate. If they did, a lot of cars would be having trouble right now. And since TW25B and MC3000 contain mineral oil and esters, they are both technically a "blend".
This is true of most oils/greases. The calcium sulfonate in MC-3000 and TW25B is used as a rust inhibitor by many, if not most oils. I have yet to see any useful or technical information on Gunbutter, and at $15 an ounce, I'm going to pass. |
|
It smells different. And it simular to LSA as for consistency. Here is some information in case you want to try it. I figure if some of these guys below use it my AR-15 can do well with it. Here's the link. http://www.hostonline2001.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=milcomm&Category_Code=technical_ Some information: Customers, Endorsers and Weapons Approvals Extreme Performance Lubricants - Environmentally Friendly & Non-Toxic Defense Contractors Alliant Tech Systems Fabrique Nationale (FN) Oto Melara BAE Systems/United Defense General Dynamics Raytheon Boeing Knight Armament Ringfeder Dillon Aero Lockheed Martin U.S. Ordnance Manufacturers/Customizers Accuracy International Kahr Arms Peerless Handcuffs Alexander Arms Marvel Precision Savage Arms ArmaLite McMillan Rifle Sig Arms DPMS North American Arms SOG knives FN USA/FN Herstal Olympic Arms Vang Comp Systems Glock ParaOrdnance Yost/Bonitz Foreign Militaries Belgian Air Force Italian Navy Royal Netherlands Air Force French Air Force Norwegian Air Force Singapore Air Force Finnish Air Force Portuguese Air force Swiss Air Force Israeli Special Forces/Air Force Royal Canadian Military U.K. Ministry of Defense U.S. Military and Federal Agencies Dept of Homeland Security U.S. Customs U.S. Department of State F. B. I. Academy U.S. Marshalls (Air) U.S. Treasury Federal Bureau of Prisons U.S. Postal Inspection U.S. Military: Army, Air Force, Federal Protection Services U.S. Secret Service Coast Guard, Navy, Marines U.S. Military Weapons Systems approved for Mil-Comm lubricants use: U.S. Air Force M61A1 - (20 MM, 6 barrel Gatling guns) on all F-14, F-15, F-16 and FA-18 jets GAU-2C - (7.62 MM Gatling guns) on all Attack and Pilot rescue helicopters GAU-19 - (50 Cal. 3 barrel Gatling guns) on “Black hawk” helicopters ALS and UALS Ammunition Loading Systems and feed chutes on 20 MM gunsCoast Guard, Navy, Marines MAU-12 - Aircraft bomb racks and missile launchers U.S. Navy (NavSea) and Coast Guard Mark 38 - (25 MM Chain guns and mounts), common on Cutters and ships Mark 75 - (76 MM anti-aircraft and close in), high cyclic cannon U.S. Navy (NavAir) and Marine Corps All medium caliber machine and Gatling guns, effective January 15, 2002 M61A1 & A2 - Gatling guns aboard F-14 and FA-18 jets effective September 2003 M-2 - (50 cal. light weight) machine gun (Infantry and other wide use) M-197 - (20 MM, 3 barrel) Gatling gun (Helicopters and light armored vehicles) GAU-17 - (7.62 MM, 6 barrel) Gatling guns (Assault boats and helicopters) M-240 - (7.62 MM, single barrel, light) machine gun (many uses) M-60 - (7.62 MM, single barrel, light) machine gun U.S. Army M3P - (50 Cal. heavy) machine gun aboard “Avenger” air defense vehicle M-134 - (7.62 MM, 6 barrel) Gatling gun on attack and rescue helicopters Mark-19 - (40 MM) grenade launcher, pending manuals publication changes Missiles - Javelin, Sidewinder and AIM-9X launch and guidance assemblies U.S. Combined Security Forces (Authorized for Afghanistan, Kuwait, Iraq) Special authorization to use TW25B® on all small arms and medium calibers (M-9 Beretta Pistols, M-16 & variants rifles, light machine guns, M-203 launchers and other infantry and light armor weapons) |
| so this stuff is nothing more than a lube right? it should not be used for cleaning, only lubing i take it? sorry but im not very educated on this stuff. i dont see a problem with cleaning with hoppes, then spraying some clp, then a little oil before the range. can someone tell me why this method is better than the one i just wrote. |
|
so this stuff is nothing more than a lube right? it should not be used for cleaning, only lubing i take it? sorry but im not very educated on this stuff. i dont see a problem with cleaning with hoppes, then spraying some clp, then a little oil before the range. can someone tell me why this method is better than the one i just wrote Yes MC3000 is only a lube not for cleaning. I'm not saying to use it if you're happy with what you have that's good. I'm posting this in case somebody wants to try it. I'm a contractor and have worked on DOD projects for land combat. They use TW25B on the Javelin missile system and use MC3000 on the guns of fighter aircraft. I use MC3000 to lube my rifles because it's easy to apply and the wear on my ar-15 is low. (TW-25B I don't like the white cream difficult to apply in tight places.) I use MPRO7 for a cleaner now called Hoppe's Elite. They use in the military to clean all types of weapon systems. While Hoppe's Elite is spendy, it's doesn't smell, non-toxic and it cleans excellent with no residue. Hoppe's Elite and MC3000 is always what I pack. MC3000 will not burn off, I noticed it was still lubed after hundreds of rounds and easier to clean. Your method will work for you and it will work just dandy but I choose the above only because it works well for me. |
|
Mpro7 is not called Hoppe's Elite. Pantheon Chemical makes BOTH Mpro 7 and Hoppe's Elite. They are verry close, but different slightly. I found hoppes to be a slightly better cleaner than Mpro 7. For oil as long as your using BF CLP or better your rifle will function. Some "oils" are better than others. I have 3 1911's one lube with nothing but tw25b one nothing but FP-10 and the last nothing but Ezzox. By eye you can't tell which is which. |
|
Mpro7 is not called Hoppe's Elite. Pantheon Chemical makes BOTH Mpro 7 and Hoppe's Elite. My mistake. During a bull session in AZ I was told Hoppe's bought Pantheon Chemical and changed the name of their cleaner to Hoppe's Elite and no more MPRO7 labels. Good cleaner and I still have a bunch of mpro7 before I dip into the Elite. I was told wrong. |
Mil-Comms's MC-25 cleaner is very much like M-Pro 7/Hoppes Elite but is safer on wood finishes and more agressive on carbon. Slip 2000's 725 cleaner is another of this type and I think it is the overall best of the 3 but it is a toss up between it and the MC-25. Check them out. 
|
AR Sponsor