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Posted: 3/22/2003 10:44:09 AM EDT
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Anyone use this? Opinions? How is it in comparison to Breakfree or FP-10? militec1.com/ |
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Quoted: Ask them for a sample and try some for yourself... I did, and I have my little sample. Not much larger than an eye dropper. I wanted to know if anyone has used this seriously as compared to Breakfree (which I have a large spray bottle of.) The Miltech-1 literature makes the stuff sound great, but I would like someone else's opinion. Thanks. |
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If applied as per the instructions its a better lubricant than Break Free but thats it. The Break Free is a cleaner,lubricant and protectant that is hard to beat no matter how hard you look.And I have looked hard let me tell you. The Militec-1 is pretty good stuff but it does not perform as well as the Break Free in the long run.Thats my opinion and experience. So if I were to have to decide on the two it would be Break Free clp for me. Raymond |
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Of course Militec1 is not a CLP, it's a lube only, with perhaps some protection abilities. I don't use "CLP", you can find much better cleaners that only "clean', and lubes that only "lube", like Militec1.. :) "CLP"s are nothing but a compromise, they neither clean well nor lube well, but.. they do excel at the "protection" part. I'll use separate stuff myself. |
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Since your looking at trying a different oil also try some FP-10 and Mil-comm TW-25B. Nothing better than seat of the pants,hands on testing for yourself. That way you know for sure what works for you. But corrosion protection is a major issue for me.So what ever you decide on make sure it lubricates and protects to your needs. Raymond |
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Quoted: Of course Militec1 is not a CLP, it's a lube only, with perhaps some protection abilities. I don't use "CLP", you can find much better cleaners that only "clean', and lubes that only "lube", like Militec1.. :) "CLP"s are nothing but a compromise, they neither clean well nor lube well, but.. they do excel at the "protection" part. I'll use separate stuff myself. Bullet, I was curious,do you use the Militec-1 on the entire weapon inside and out? Have you had any problems with corrosion? Also have you heard anything about not using Militec-1 on or around plastic? I have seen several ads for I think DPMS magazines that recommends not getting Militec on the plastic mag shell or follower.May have been due to the semi-clear plastic thats used I dont know. I used Militec-1 for a few months and did not have any real problems except for its lack to protect for the long term.But I have also had other oils with the same problem. Militec-1 is a excellent lube though but so is FP-10 and Mil-comm. Raymond |
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I've been using it for about 6 months now, in and out. I swab the barrels with it after cleaning them, then the outside. No rust, no issues with any plastic, least none that I've seen yet. Obviously, no plastic has melted.. :) You put it on and the weapon looks very slick. After sitting for a few weeks/months, looking at it again it's still very slick. It seems to cling well, without running all over the place. I don't think this stuff was intended for ultra long storage of firearms, either I read that on militec's website or somewhere else on the web. |
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Great question! Forgive me for tagging on, but I'm still up in the air about this stuff, myself. Is this stuff really, in fact, as good as I've heard? Are there any third party testimonials (not provided by the manufacturer) that we can review? It's all kind of confusing, because opinions are all over the map, and there's only one current thread in 30 days to search. IOW, of all the lubes and protectants out there, is this just an overpriced version of Breakfree, or is there really any validity to the claims that are made for it, from the users, and from the company? Is this just expensive "snake oil"? Ok, so now here come my questions: 1) How can I be sure that the copper and carbon from previously fired rounds are totally removed, to let Militec do it's "magic" and "soak into" the metal to form the "bond"? If there is residual copper from rounds previously shot, won't it be bonding to the copper, and not to the chrome lining in my Bushie? 2) Is there any reason why we could not use our kitchen oven at roughly 125 degrees to "bake on" the product, rather than shooting it? Has anyone tried it this way? 3) Would you recommend a COMPLETE strip of the firearm, down to the trigger group, if we're able to do so? I ask, because if this stuff is as good as the hype, then wouldn't it make sense to get into the gun as "deep" as possible? 4) Is it safe for NICKEL and ANODIZED finishes, as found on my S/W 27, and Kimber Custom Eclipse? I had thought to completely strip down both guns to the frame, clean, Militec, heat 'em, then reassemble. I'm worried for the nickel finish on the Smith, and the black anodizing on the Kimber. 5) When we clean in the future, using Hoppes, or another bore cleaner, does that not strip away any previously applied Militec? IOW, if in the process of cleaning the guns down the road, if some cleaner dribbles into the frame, or trigger group, will it wash away the benefits of the Militec? Sorry if this has been hashed over before, but for some reason, I can't seem to find a clear answer, and it's all kind of confusing. Thanks for your help!!! |
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1) How can I be sure that the copper and carbon from previously fired rounds are totally removed, to let Militec do it's "magic" and "soak into" the metal to form the "bond"? If there is residual copper from rounds previously shot, won't it be bonding to the copper, and not to the chrome lining in my Bushie? Yep, you need to clean all that crap out of there first to make this stuff work properly. It'll bond to the copper I'd assume if you didn't. 2) Is there any reason why we could not use our kitchen oven at roughly 125 degrees to "bake on" the product, rather than shooting it? Has anyone tried it this way? Yep, read their website they say you can do this. I never did, just applied it and shot my weapons. 3) Would you recommend a COMPLETE strip of the firearm, down to the trigger group, if we're able to do so? I ask, because if this stuff is as good as the hype, then wouldn't it make sense to get into the gun as "deep" as possible? I would do this if I could, but.. I'm not overly concerned about it. Use some gun scrubber, then, apply the militec1. 4) Is it safe for NICKEL and ANODIZED finishes, as found on my S/W 27, and Kimber Custom Eclipse? I had thought to completely strip down both guns to the frame, clean, Militec, heat 'em, then reassemble. I'm worried for the nickel finish on the Smith, and the black anodizing on the Kimber. No idea about this one. Perhaps something on their website might mention this. 5) When we clean in the future, using Hoppes, or another bore cleaner, does that not strip away any previously applied Militec? IOW, if in the process of cleaning the guns down the road, if some cleaner dribbles into the frame, or trigger group, will it wash away the benefits of the Militec? Like most other lubes I'd suspect some would be 'washed' away. Re-apply the militec1 like you would any other lube and I'm sure you'd be fine. |
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Bullet, thanks for the reply. I guess I'd still like to read up on this stuff a bit more, to get some independent opinions. If it's no more or less effective than Breakfree, then there's really no reason for me to jump through hoops to do all the breakdown, cleaning, and "baking" involved. That said, assuming that it IS, in fact, a superior product, what is the most effective cleaning method you'd recommend to get all the copper and carbon fouling out of my guns? I normally use Hoppes #9, an Otis kit (with the bronze brush) and clean until the patches are not fouled. As a finishing touch, for REAL THOROUGH cleaning, to remove even the Hoppes, I spray down with GunScrubber. Would you say that's as good as it can get? TIA! |
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To say militec-1 is a snake oil would not be fair since its not. Militec-1 does lubricate as advertised,and lubricates verywell I must say. It is heat activated,that is also true. The use of a hair dryer is all thats needed for application.In the summer the heat from the sun and firing is all thats needed. Militec-1 says it takes from 100-150 degree's F for the reaction to occur.Summer sun will easily get the rifle that hot on a summer day here in the south. From my experience it does offer rust protection but nothing like Break Free,FP-10 or Mil-comm. As for its effects on chrome and nickel I would say there is none at all,good or bad. In fact if I understood George Fennell at MPC correctly these EP compounds/oils which include FP-10 will not impart a boundary film/react with chrome or nickel surfaces. The oils will only act as a lubricant bath on these surfaces offering conventional lubrication and protection. The lack of long term corrosion resistance was the main issue for me. Also the issue of militec may have damaging effects polymers was the other. I do know for a fact Militec-1 will melt styrofoam.I tried it and it runs through styrofoam like poop through a goose. Break Free,FP-10 and Mil-comm does not affect styrofoam or polymers from my experience. I had the militec-1 small dropper bottle leak in my A2 buttstock and it damaged the poly filler thats in there.Looks like it melted it just as it does styrofoam. Brad at Militec-1 told me that most commercial gun cleaning solvents will not remove the militec-1 from the surfaces. I always use Bore Tech Benchrest or Hoppe's #9 to clean and never saw a negative effect on the militec-1 that I could see. Militec is a good lube in my opinion.In fact it maybe a slightly stronger lube than FP-10 but does not function as well as FP-10 in all areas. Militec-1 and FP-10 do not conatin any solvents as Break Free does.Fp-10 uses a light oil that creeps to clean which makes it safer to use for some. The two issues I mentioned were the reason I moved onto other products. Otherwise I was very pleased with Militec's performance as a lubricant. Try it and see for yourself if it is what you want. Raymond |
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Ray, thanks for your thorough response. I'm getting the sense that Militec's role will be for bore and mechanisms (bolt/slide/action & trigger groups), only. What would you recommend for a protectant for the exterior of my guns, the AR included? Would you say that Breakfree is better as a rust/corrosion inhibitor, or are all exterior protectants, in your opinion, about the same? From a strategy standpoint, it's clearly easier to use one product than many, but if there are clear advantages of using multiple products, then I'm willing to jump through the hoops. This reminds me somewhat of my friend's old car detailing business, where he would use up to four differnt products, at different points in the process. One product that tried to be all things to all people just didn't cut it. |
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I used the militec-1 by itself and with break free,in fact I even mixed them together at one point and it worked fine.But I will say militec-1 works best as a lubricant by itself.If its mixed with Break free it will tend to attract fouling, dust and dirt. Militec-1 is full straight synthetic that contains about 12% controlled long chain chlorinated hydrocabons that are very stable with some corrosion inhibitors and solvents as per the web site. Like I said its an outstanding lubricant. I live in the south that has 80-100% humidity most of the time year round,so that may have contributed to some of my problems with rust and militec.But Break free has a high percentage of corrosion inhibitors and flat out protects better than most anything out there, and thats what I was use to. I spent two weeks in Colorado at 11,000 feet last fall hunting.Which is very dusty and dry by the way,and my weapons were handled alot with only the initial coating of militec on them and I had no rust at all after two weeks of neglect and use without cleaning. I think the key to using militec for protection in moist air is to keep a heavy coat on the surfaces at all times and follow the directions.If you are going to store the weapons I would coat them with a heavy coat and check them very often,weekly. The break free protects so well for so long that its very dependable without concern. As for my plastic issue,I contacted Russ Logan at militec-1 this morning and he said that militec is completely safe for any polymer and wood that is used on a firearm.He said the plastic stocks on the AR's and polymer frames like on glock will not be affected by militec-1 in any way. He said that the styrofoam is different from other polymers and can be reacted on by most solvents and oils,so its not a militec issue.So that answered that concern for me. So try it and see what you think.Militec-1 will get a sample out very fast to you. I would say Bullet has the most experience with militec-1 and he likes it as well as many others out there. If you have any questions give Russ Logan a call at militec and he will answer any question you ask.Trust me I have asked him alot of questions and he has taken the time to answer them all. Raymond |
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Quoted: That said, assuming that it IS, in fact, a superior product, what is the most effective cleaning method you'd recommend to get all the copper and carbon fouling out of my guns? I normally use Hoppes #9, an Otis kit (with the bronze brush) and clean until the patches are not fouled. As a finishing touch, for REAL THOROUGH cleaning, to remove even the Hoppes, I spray down with GunScrubber. Would you say that's as good as it can get? TIA! Hoppes #9 is not a copper remover. If you use their benchrest formula that will remove some copper, albeit slowly. I use mpro7 as my standard bore cleaner. It's the best I've ever seen. Nothing cleans as well as this stuff does, you should consider giving it a try. Like hoppes #9, mpro7 does not remove copper. So, for copper cleaning I use sweets. This stuff is also the best copper remover I've ever used. I was using shooters choice copper remover and this stuff is far superior to it. After I'm done cleaning I swab the barrel with militec1, and then the outside of the weapon. With these three products my cleaning time has been reduced, and the job is done better then anything else I happened to use in the past. I'm very happy with my combo.. :) |
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Bullet, thanks again for the help. I decided to go ahead with using Hoppe's, since I was tired of looking at my M4gery on the floor in pieces, and don't feel like driving all over the ass end of NJ looking for other stuff. I'm hopeful that it'll be OK, though. I was VERY thorough using the solvent with my Otis kit dry patches, wet patches and bore brush. In fact, I even used a professional ultrasonic cleaner I use for watchmaking and repair, to clean the bolt/carrier group to a T. Not too anal about this, am I? ;) Next time, I'll know in advance, and start from scratch the right way, when I can afford to get my DMS version. |
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I would not say based on chlorine.It only contains 12% chlorinated hydrocarbons by volume. Its slightly different than chlorine bleach. For some detailed reading on this technology check out the technical papers that George Fennell has wrote on the subject at the fp-10 web site. By the way PTFE/teflon is chlorinated hydrocarbon's also. Raymond |
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Hmmmm... Here's another stupid question regarding advanced lubricants like Militec. If the design of Militec is to bond directly to, and become "part" of metal, I can see where it makes sense for exposed surfaces, like the bore, or bare parts. But, will parts that are hard-anodized, like the bolt, and carrier, not benefit as much from it? IOW, if the metal has already been coated with, say, an anodized or parkerized material, how does that affect the bonding and protection/lubrication properties of Militec? Sorry to be such a PITA, but sometimes, when you start learning about a thing, and start looking for answers, you wind up uncovering yet even more questions. |
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