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Posted: 8/22/2007 7:02:50 PM EDT
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Today I was shooting ammunition from a reputable (according to the ammo review) manufacturer. Shooting, shooting, click. I checked the chamber, looked like a double feed. Removed the magazine, pulled the charging handle and shook. One round came out, and HALF OF A CASE came out. The case split between the neck and primer end, not down the side, but in HALF. This has never happened before. I checked the weapon. It appeared fine. I finished off with a different type of ammo. I was unable to recover the primer end. It didn't seem like overpressure, as the rifle didn't kaboom or feel any different. Everything seems to be in pristine condition, and the round exited the barrel (I checked). The primer-end of the case apparently extracted, or disappeared into thin air, but I'm guessing it extracted. I'll call the manufacturer tomorrow. Pending reply, I may post the brand name.  How common is this? Is this a dangerous situation, assuming that the case wasn't overloaded? What can cause this? Thanks. |
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It's a case separation and it's not 'common'. I would not expect that to happen with newly manufactured ammo. Was this re-manufatured ammo? The common causes I know of are: - Hot loads in cases that have been resized too much or too many times. - Hot loads and excessive headspace. - Regular loads with worn-out brass. - Reloading in "once-fired" machine gun brass. If this was brand new ammo, I would check the rest of the cases and see if there is a faint ring in the same location on your other ejected brass. If there is then something is amiss. Check the headspace on the rifle as a first step. ETA: It's not desirable, if it happens pretty far up the body of the case it's unlikely to do immediate damage. If it keeps happening it could damage the chamber with gas leakage. If it happens near the case head (down near the extraction groove) that can be major bad news. |
Yes, remanufactured. I haven't got a headspace gauge, but I've put thousands of rounds down the tube with no problem whatsoever, everything from WWB to Guat to LC etc, never had this type of trouble. I'll try to find a local gunsmith who can check it. Thanks for the ETA "damage report". Is there any type of visual inspection I could perform to determine whether or not the remaining ammo is any good? Any way to check if there was damage to the chamber (it performed fine with different ammo after this but that doesn't mean anything)? Thanks for the help. BTW, after reading your post, I see that my terminology-foo is wrong. It split half way down between the bullet end and primer end, basically just snapped in half. |
I experienced a similar occurrence. The ammunition used was from the box pictured below. The weapon that was used has a 16" Colt 6520 barrel with a NATO chamber, 1:7" twist and chrome lining. The weapon functioned flawlessly until this particular incident and has functioned flawlessly since. (Naturally, I don't use this particular ammunition anymore.) Four rounds of this ammunition were fired without incidence prior to the problem round. The problem round fired normally. There was no noticeable change in muzzle blast or recoil. (Nor was there any change noticeable in the round fired prior to this round.) After the problem round fired, the lower portion of the ruptured case was ejected from the weapon. The upper portion of the case was extracted from the chamber, but did not eject from the weapon. The upper portion of the ruptured case interfered with the next round attempting to feed into the chamber and the weapon experienced a stoppage. I had noticed out of the corner of my eye that there was something different about the case that had just been ejected from the weapon. It almost appeared to be a 9mm case being ejected! I placed the weapon on safe, kept it pointed down range for thirty seconds and then removed the magazine. The upper portion of the ruptured case, along with the round that had attempted to feed fell out of the magazine well. I examined the weapon and magazine and could find no damage to either. I examined the remaining rounds in the magazine and could find no abnormalities. The next 5 rounds from the magazine fired without any problem. I sampled several random rounds from the box and they all had satisfactory head spacing and easily slipped into a chamber gauge. Here are some pics of the ruptured case.     It just so happened that I was chronographing this load when the case rupture occurred. An Oehler 35-P was used at a distance of 21 feet from the muzzle. As the round prior to the problem round triggered the chronograph without any problem, I can be fairly certain there was no squib load involved. As the problem round itself had a velocity almost exactly equal to the average of the 10 rounds chronographed, I can also be fairly certain it was not an overpressure round. Here is a pic of the printout from the chronograph. The problem round is circled.  |
Looks like the brass was just ready to go then. If none of the normal problems that lead up to this are there I would wager they are loading machine-gun brass and letting some of those that have the tell-tail ring slip through. I have seen many incipient failures in once fired 5.56mm brass I have ordered. The answers I got on that all pointed to having been fired in M249's with their very loose chambers. |
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Molon, EXACT SAME SITUATION. No change in felt recoil (I actually attempted to fire the next round, didn't notice what had happened), ejected the ass of the case, the frontal portion extracted but stayed in the weapon. The case broke in the exact same place. Weapon was a Stag 16" upper, produced the exact same effect. I looked around for the other portion of the case but as I said, couldn't locate it. Did you call HSM about this? What did they say? |
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Update: After calling HSM yesterday around 1, their "Operator" seemed pretty quality. She said that they would call me back, took down my name and number, etc. Still no call returned as of today. If this were an order, no big deal, but I doubt it's taking them this long to find a supervisor. 
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Well, this is something you ALWAYS have to wonder about with any remanufactured ammo or piece of brass that you didn't buy or recieve in new condition. No guarranty that it's only been used once. No guarranty that it's been used in an in spec chamber. it's a mystery and you cross your fingers. Of course you are also trusting that the brass factory didn't have a bad day, but the odds are better there. I always think about that when I police brass on a range. Am i picking up someone else's brass along with mine and don't even notice? I watch my brass and have a knowledge of it's history. I recently gave up on FC brass as i was getting split necks after 2 loads. I just don't need that or want to put energy into prepping brass for 2 loads. I like to control my ammo quality!!!! |
That looks like it could be where the sizing die stopped sizing because it couldn't travel down anymore because of the shell holder/plate, that can happen if not enough sizing lube was used. |
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Huh. This is what you were talking about. I'd be PISSED if that happened to me and then to other people. Then the manufacturer wouldn't back up their product at all!?? WTF HSM?!? I mean damn, the least you could do is offer to replace the lot/s that he has so he has a better chance of shooting safe ammo in his AR. I always thought HSM was good stuff by the threads here but I won't buy any now, especially if they won't make it right. I guess I'll have to chalk up another one on the "do not buy list" when I talk to people. Most importantly, I'm glad that you and Molon are ok.-X ***Waiting on a Kaboom story in the future*** |
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Been using HSM for .40 S&W, 9mm and ,223 with no problems. We have a guy locally that gets it for us and I have never heard of this type of problem, yes thousands of rounds have been sent downrange. I'll still use them , price is right and I have been reloading the brass with very good results. Looking forward to HSM response. |
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I called HSM, told them about the problem. Sandy at HSM had read the thread (I believe as per Molon's link?). Initially, he said something sounded weird because of my headstamps. To paraphrase, "We usually only use military stuff, it's weird that you have a lot of commercial headstamps mixed in". While looking through headstamps, I actually found one for .204 Ruger.  Sandy was civil enough. I tried to hint at some kind of an exchange, but more than once I got the, "We manufacture millions of rounds a year, Molon's problem and your problem are coincidence". Sandy said that he'd be in touch when he got the headstamp issue sorted out. A couple of hours later, he calls back after speaking to someone there (not sure who). Headstamp issue is now normal, no problems, shoot the rest of your stuff, we manufacture millions of rounds a year... So I finally ask the real question, "and what happens if my rifle explodes in my face?". "Well, we're usually pretty good about that". "I wouldn't worry about this type of case split. If anything, the pressure is going to just go right down the barrel. You don't see kabooms unless the ammo is over-loaded".I'm not an expert, but I'm fairly sure that kB's are possible even with properly loaded ammo. I had 3,000 rounds on back-order which have since been cancelled. I won't be using them again. Sure, there was no catastrophic failure this time, but I'm not confident that HSM would own up to whatever problems occurred as a result of using that ammo. Use at your own risk. |
"It'll usually go right down the barrel" -   Yeah.... that sorta depends greatly on where the case fails now doesn't it? That's why I don't like commercial reloaders. There is going to be a couple cases slip through that are close to failure. He may be right. They may manufacture millions of rounds, but it only takes one unlucky schmuck to get the one that slips through and they have a rough day. That response is pretty weak, but honestly... you have as much chance of getting a bad round in the next lot as you do of getting a second one in this lot. |
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How many times have you seen in a reloading thread; "No problem with getting brass, when mine gets wore out I can swap with fresh empties from the PD/guard unit/army." Then the whole lot goes to auction and 10k rounds of once fired has 300 8x fired mixed in it. Just makes me nervous is all.
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One of the most (perhaps?) unintentionally hilarious statements made in the ammo forum yet.  I don't think that the number of rounds they produce should have any bearing on the quality or the backing of the product. For example, they're selling this stuff as once-fired. Now maybe it *is* once fired, but if you look at how they acquire brass, there's really no way to guarantee that it's once fired at all. This isn't HSM's fault that they can't guarantee that it's once fired, and even once fired brass can fail, but if you can't guarantee it, it's kinda shiesty to market it as once fired.
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I never had a problem either until I had one. 
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