AR Sponsor
Posted: 9/22/2016 11:58:46 PM EDT
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Gents,
New member but I've been on AR15.com for years and years and I appreciate all the insight and knowledge I've gained on this forum. A close buddy and I have decided to pursue a small business building AR-15s, mostly selling to friends and family. We both have full time jobs and have no aspirations of creating a multi-million dollar empire, just want to build a few good rifles and sell them to friends and family that appreciate them. We've got the FFL and the SOT, business licenses, etc and we are now working through the insurance piece. We found a company that will insure us but they want a lot of detailed information on our Product Loss Control Program, Product Quality Control Program and Product Recall Program. I've built 50 to 75 ARs in my life but being brand new to the business side of this I don't know where to even begin. I'm former Army and in my former life I always had a reference - either a document or a buddy who had been there and done it - to hand rail off of so I wasn't having to stumble through discovery learning completely blind. Is there anyone here on this site chock full of experience that can lend a hand and steer me in the right direction so I can answer these questions for the insurance company? Administrators - Please forgive me if I posted this in the wrong place and if I violated any rules by asking these questions, although I read through the Conduct Code to make sure I was on the up and up and I think I'm good. Any responses, public or private, would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you very much. - C |
| Did you prepare to be fucked by Obama in what you planned? He has now run out of businesses from a lot of gunsmiths because of this executive order. Do y'all have any sort of FFL? If not then no you cannot build any guns and if so got an extra several grand to spend on the BS that FBHO passed? If not look elsewhere. |
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Quoted:
Did you prepare to be fucked by Obama in what you planned? He has now run out of businesses from a lot of gunsmiths because of this executive order. Do y'all have any sort of FFL? If not then no you cannot build any guns and if so got an extra several grand to spend on the BS that FBHO passed? If not look elsewhere. did you not read his post or pay attention. he clearly states in the beginning he has an FFL and SOT for building. |
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Quoted: Did you prepare to be fucked by Obama in what you planned? He has now run out of businesses from a lot of gunsmiths because of this executive order. Do y'all have any sort of FFL? If not then no you cannot build any guns and if so got an extra several grand to spend on the BS that FBHO passed? If not look elsewhere. They are FFL's with SOT already. |
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Quoted:
Did you prepare to be fucked by Obama in what you planned? He has now run out of businesses from a lot of gunsmiths because of this executive order. Do y'all have any sort of FFL? If not then no you cannot build any guns and if so got an extra several grand to spend on the BS that FBHO passed? If not look elsewhere. Mind = Blown. I cannot answer your specific question OP, but I trust that there are many small business owners that frequent this site and can help you out. |
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From what I know about insurance companies, they are no better than bookies. They want to know what the odds are that they are going to pay out if something goes wrong with your business model before they break even.
Just like banks, they want to know that you have thought things through and have a plan. Give them plenty of figures and charts. Go into detail about each topic (no less than a few paragraphs). Basically, what it is you plan to do to ensure things do not go wrong, but if they do, your steps to correct the problem. Crap, if you can't do that go with the bedding policy. Since you were in the Military, you know the drill... 1. make them feel like they are making the right decision by getting in bed with you. 2. Reassure them you are not a fly by night operation and will be there in the morning. 3. Etc., etc., until they leave with you. Also, just in case, register as a corporation or at least some sort of LLC and have an EIN #. Nothing is in any person's name. It should all be under the company's name. Semper Fi |
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Quoted:
Gents, New member but I've been on AR15.com for years and years and I appreciate all the insight and knowledge I've gained on this forum. A close buddy and I have decided to pursue a small business building AR-15s, mostly selling to friends and family. We both have full time jobs and have no aspirations of creating a multi-million dollar empire, just want to build a few good rifles and sell them to friends and family that appreciate them. We've got the FFL and the SOT, business licenses, etc and we are now working through the insurance piece. We found a company that will insure us but they want a lot of detailed information on our Product Loss Control Program, Product Quality Control Program and Product Recall Program. I've built 50 to 75 ARs in my life but being brand new to the business side of this I don't know where to even begin. I'm former Army and in my former life I always had a reference - either a document or a buddy who had been there and done it - to hand rail off of so I wasn't having to stumble through discovery learning completely blind. Is there anyone here on this site chock full of experience that can lend a hand and steer me in the right direction so I can answer these questions for the insurance company? Administrators - Please forgive me if I posted this in the wrong place and if I violated any rules by asking these questions, although I read through the Conduct Code to make sure I was on the up and up and I think I'm good. Any responses, public or private, would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you very much. - C Know that anything to do with firearms in the insurance industry is going to be difficult. It isn;t just the risk of loss due to your negligence but the risk of loss due to having to defend you from frivolous lawsuits. They want to know about your loss control, QC, and recall policies so they can underwrite and price the products and completed operations liability piece. My suggestion: Create a policy for each and commit it to paper. Make it a policy you CAN and WILL follow. Then FOLLOW it. Don't try to make it something that sounds good for the sake of sounding good, but is not realistic to adhere to; make it something you can follow. That's it. You'll be fine, they really just want to be sure you HAVE policies for these things. To know that you are AVOIDING risk to that kind of loss on the front end |
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Your insurance company doesn't really care about what business you're in. They just want to make sure that you have procedures in place to a) not lose your shirt through losing parts and completed products; b) making sure you do your assembly right and having a way to formally test and document this; and c) have a process for contacting customers if you find Something Went Wrong - whether your torque wrench turned out to be WAY off or your supplier of Part X wound up giving you faulty parts or anything else.
So what they want is written rules you and your partner agree on an agree to follow. Here is a breakdown of what the three programs the insurance people are asking for: Product Loss Control Program: a set of processes to conduct an inventory of parts, in-process builds and completed products, with detailed documentation of everything. These should be completed every day (probably once when you get started and again when you shut down for the day), with checks and balances to keep you honest. Much of this, especially the completed products part, is going to be covered by the documentation you need to do under your FFL - the "bound book" documentation manufacturers must do for each completed firearm. You should also devise forms for each of the separate inventories. Product Quality Control Program: detailed processes to inspect and test individual parts, assemblies, and completed products. It may sound silly, but QC is crucial. Your work may be fine for yourself, but if it's going to go into someone else's hands, you want to be certain it's done right. There are plenty of QC processes detailed in the armorer's TM. Chapter 3 is essentially a repair and assembly manual for the M16 family of weapons, including tests and standards to make sure things are done right. You can probably simply cite each process from the TM for your program. You WILL need some special tools, including stuff like headspace gauges, jigs, etc., and you can make your own test devices for what you will test. Keep in mind that once you complete a rifle, it doesn't matter if the "inexpensive" parts you used turn out to be bad from the supplier, YOU are responsible for them being in that rifle, so inspect and test the parts before you start. Include what you'll test and measure, how you'll do that and to what standards, and how you'll document it - and how you'll separate stuff that has been tested from what hasn't been yet. Product Recall Program: detailed processes needed to contact customers if Something Went Wrong. This one isn't something that you can SWAG, but it's not too much of a challenge. Ask customers if they want to hear from you in case of "issues," for warranty purposes. If they do, collect everything they are willing to give you (phone number, email or physical address, whatever) for this purpose. Since you're going to have to complete 4473s on each sale, so the customer isn't going to be anonymous in any way. It's also probably a good idea to have a written warranty that spells out what you will and won't cover, and for how long. Hope this helps... |
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