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Always check your 5 and 25 while watching your 6
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EE: 100% (3)
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Originally Posted By 1iviper: sweet , what setup were you running with the suppressor ? carrier , buffer , spring ? Originally Posted By 1iviper: Originally Posted By js1977: I know there's a million video's on it now, but figured I'd share mine suppressed while at the range today. The smoke is from the suppressor, it had a little piece of melted plastic from the table it was resting on, haha! http://vid788.photobucket.com/albums/yy166/jimmys120/1B39E006-01E0-4BB0-AA24-98D8285BD4B4_zpsc8k4gl1j.mp4 AAC SR-5 suppressor Danial defense carrier Griffin Armament AR-SOB buffer (4.9oz) Tubb's flatware spring |
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Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
I sincerely doubt that. Since this is a tech forum, I'll suggest a technical solution. 17-4 at H900 will make an awesome trigger. There are even more treatments that can be done to make it harder if needed. This isn't a trade secret, and a few minutes with a qualified materials engineer would define this (or a better) solution. With this information in hand they should be ready to go much sooner than October, right? My personal opinion is that they are waiting for a response from ATF since they added an autosear to their design. The problem is that ATF is taking 12 months to turn letters around lately. To be honest, I hope they eventually pull it off, but from the discussions we've had with other industry personnel, that isn't likely. Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
Originally Posted By HKPDW:
Originally Posted By HKPDW:
Fostech said the first shipment of Echos should begin early June. Fostech said the first shipment of Echos should begin early October. Something about heat treating a trigger...  My personal opinion is that they are waiting for a response from ATF since they added an autosear to their design. The problem is that ATF is taking 12 months to turn letters around lately. To be honest, I hope they eventually pull it off, but from the discussions we've had with other industry personnel, that isn't likely. Welp, I'm gonna got out on a limb and speculate that it doesn't take four months to heat treat a trigger. |
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Originally Posted By js1977: Sorry I didn't post it with the video. AAC SR-5 suppressor Danial defense carrier Griffin Armament AR-SOB buffer (4.9oz) Tubb's flatware spring Originally Posted By js1977: Originally Posted By 1iviper: Originally Posted By js1977: I know there's a million video's on it now, but figured I'd share mine suppressed while at the range today. The smoke is from the suppressor, it had a little piece of melted plastic from the table it was resting on, haha! http://vid788.photobucket.com/albums/yy166/jimmys120/1B39E006-01E0-4BB0-AA24-98D8285BD4B4_zpsc8k4gl1j.mp4 AAC SR-5 suppressor Danial defense carrier Griffin Armament AR-SOB buffer (4.9oz) Tubb's flatware spring  aac mini 4 bcm full mass carrier griffin ar-sob sprinco blue spring |
Always check your 5 and 25 while watching your 6
Joined:
Nov 2015
Posts:
403
EE: 100% (3)
TX, USA
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Originally Posted By 1iviper: thanks for the info. i swapped out the lightweight stuff to try the bfs out with a can on the next trip and my setup sounds familiar to yours. hopefully she'll run as good as yours aac mini 4 bcm full mass carrier griffin ar-sob sprinco blue spring Originally Posted By 1iviper: Originally Posted By js1977: Originally Posted By 1iviper: Originally Posted By js1977: I know there's a million video's on it now, but figured I'd share mine suppressed while at the range today. The smoke is from the suppressor, it had a little piece of melted plastic from the table it was resting on, haha! http://vid788.photobucket.com/albums/yy166/jimmys120/1B39E006-01E0-4BB0-AA24-98D8285BD4B4_zpsc8k4gl1j.mp4 AAC SR-5 suppressor Danial defense carrier Griffin Armament AR-SOB buffer (4.9oz) Tubb's flatware spring aac mini 4 bcm full mass carrier griffin ar-sob sprinco blue spring |
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Originally Posted By js1977: yeah let me know how that setup goes. I have the red but haven't tried the blue Originally Posted By js1977: Originally Posted By 1iviper: Originally Posted By js1977: Originally Posted By 1iviper: Originally Posted By js1977: I know there's a million video's on it now, but figured I'd share mine suppressed while at the range today. The smoke is from the suppressor, it had a little piece of melted plastic from the table it was resting on, haha! http://vid788.photobucket.com/albums/yy166/jimmys120/1B39E006-01E0-4BB0-AA24-98D8285BD4B4_zpsc8k4gl1j.mp4 AAC SR-5 suppressor Danial defense carrier Griffin Armament AR-SOB buffer (4.9oz) Tubb's flatware spring aac mini 4 bcm full mass carrier griffin ar-sob sprinco blue spring |
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Funny when Fostech first announced their trigger, quite a few folks were already jumping on the bandwagon (xtreme762 you know who you are) and saying that the Fostech trigger was better and the FA trigger was crappy and horrible etc.
Here we are, almost 6 months later... 
I really enjoy my FA trigger. I have it installed in my 9mm SBR and shoot the piss out of it! The Fostech might be nicer, and better, and smoother etc, but I can use mine now and not have to talk about how great that I think that it might be when it does finally start to ship. I will more than likely own the Fostech as well, but I will wait. I was one of the first folks to have a FA trigger, but now that I have that itch scratched, I am good to wait a bit for the next new thing. |
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Originally Posted By seabass25: If I buy a Franklin trigger, what is the consensus on the items to make it run? Aim light weight carrier? Red or Orange spring? H2 buffer? What combo is the most reliable. I will probably use it in a 16 and 10 inch upper. Thanks.  generally a lightweight carrier , extra power spring , and a carbine buffer. one of my 11.5" setups likes an h2 buffer and one likes a carbine buffer. you'll need to do a little experimenting to fine tune your setup but your on the right path |
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Originally Posted By HKPDW: Welp, I'm gonna got out on a limb and speculate that it doesn't take four months to heat treat a trigger. Originally Posted By HKPDW: Originally Posted By franklinarmory: Originally Posted By HKPDW: Originally Posted By HKPDW: Fostech said the first shipment of Echos should begin early June. Fostech said the first shipment of Echos should begin early October. Something about heat treating a trigger... My personal opinion is that they are waiting for a response from ATF since they added an autosear to their design. The problem is that ATF is taking 12 months to turn letters around lately. To be honest, I hope they eventually pull it off, but from the discussions we've had with other industry personnel, that isn't likely. Welp, I'm gonna got out on a limb and speculate that it doesn't take four months to heat treat a trigger. |
Ignorance is not a point of view.
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Originally Posted By seabass25: to 1iviper Do you use the red or orange spring? i also run aim lightweight carriers in both , one prefers a carbine buffer and one an h2 buffer |
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Originally Posted By franklinarmory: About two weeks or less for triggers. BFS firearms are still back ordered over 4 weeks. Turn around is improving though. Originally Posted By franklinarmory: Originally Posted By HK_DUDE: How long is the current wait on the BFS? About two weeks or less for triggers. BFS firearms are still back ordered over 4 weeks. Turn around is improving though. However the definition of a rifle states ".. fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger." So does installing these type triggers change the rifle to a firearm? It clearly no longer meets the definition of a rifle. |
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Originally Posted By slater2111: ATF also says that the release of the trigger is a separate function. So pull is one release is two. The trigger technology isnt new and has been around a while in shot guns. Two functions is not a machine gun. However by the definition it is not a rifle either. So that must make it a simple title 1 firearm? In most cases that won't make any difference, but it is always good to know the legal classification of the firearm you have. It may make it illegal for some activities such as hunting during rifle only season. Franklin Armory knows what it asked the ATF when submitting the request for determination, and what their response was. That's why I quoted their post, as a question to them. It is possible that they asked if it would classify the host rifle as a machine gun. In such a case the ATF may simply have stated it would not based on the definition of a machine gun. But they may or may not (often the case) expand on that answer to cover a different classification other than the one asked about. 27 CFR 478.11, 26 USC Chapter 53 Rifle. A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger |
| It still only fires once for every pull of the trigger. The definition doesn't preclude what happens on the release of the trigger. So while I am not an attorney, I would expect that the rifle definition would not change. |
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Originally Posted By franklinarmory: It still only fires once for every pull of the trigger. The definition doesn't preclude what happens on the release of the trigger. So while I am not an attorney, I would expect that the rifle definition would not change. While I not an attorney either, the distinctly worded differences in the operation of the trigger found in two different NFA definitions would indicate two distinct meanings. While the rifle definition may not preclude what happens after the trigger is released, the context in the use of pull instead of function indicates the framers intent of the definition was to limit firing to only the pulling of the trigger. Your interpretation is akin to making a pistol and putting a butt stock on it. Provided intent is not to make it a shoulder fired weapon it should be legal. The pistol definition does not preclude the presents of a butt stock and the rifle definition does not mention a butt stock as a feature of a rifle. How then can a pistol with a butt stock be legally classified a short barreled rifle according to the definition of a pistol, rifle or short barreled rifle? |
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Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
I take it you don't have a determination by the ATF as to the legal classification then. While I not an attorney either, the distinctly worded differences in the operation of the trigger found in two different NFA definitions would indicate two distinct meanings. While the rifle definition may not preclude what happens after the trigger is released, the context in the use of pull instead of function indicates the framers intent of the definition was to limit firing to only the pulling of the trigger. Your interpretation is akin to making a pistol and putting a butt stock on it. Provided intent is not to make it a shoulder fired weapon it should be legal. The pistol definition does not preclude the presents of a butt stock and the rifle definition does not mention a butt stock as a feature of a rifle. How then can a pistol with a butt stock be legally classified a short barreled rifle according to the definition of a pistol, rifle or short barreled rifle? Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
It still only fires once for every pull of the trigger. The definition doesn't preclude what happens on the release of the trigger. So while I am not an attorney, I would expect that the rifle definition would not change. While I not an attorney either, the distinctly worded differences in the operation of the trigger found in two different NFA definitions would indicate two distinct meanings. While the rifle definition may not preclude what happens after the trigger is released, the context in the use of pull instead of function indicates the framers intent of the definition was to limit firing to only the pulling of the trigger. Your interpretation is akin to making a pistol and putting a butt stock on it. Provided intent is not to make it a shoulder fired weapon it should be legal. The pistol definition does not preclude the presents of a butt stock and the rifle definition does not mention a butt stock as a feature of a rifle. How then can a pistol with a butt stock be legally classified a short barreled rifle according to the definition of a pistol, rifle or short barreled rifle? Sounds to me that it meets the definition of a rifle exactly. The best thing to do is leave well enough alone and just enjoy it, the last thing we want is the ATF to think about something. |
40xb-shooter: When a man whose eyes are pointing in two different directions says "don't try this at home" I tend to follow that advice.
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Originally Posted By iNeXile556: I take it you don't have a determination by the ATF as to the legal classification then. Originally Posted By iNeXile556: Originally Posted By franklinarmory: It still only fires once for every pull of the trigger. The definition doesn't preclude what happens on the release of the trigger. So while I am not an attorney, I would expect that the rifle definition would not change. "After over 11 months of waiting, ATF finally replied to us regarding the BFS. They stated that our prototype was legal.."
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RIP WMD :(
"Some hills are not worth dying on and internet drama is one of them.." - a wise man I call sir
"Some hills are not worth dying on and internet drama is one of them.." - a wise man I call sir
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Originally Posted By Mossyrocks:
About 5 or 6 months ago. Originally Posted By Mossyrocks:
Originally Posted By SandWMandP15Tee:
When are these triggers going to made available ? About 5 or 6 months ago. more like 7 if you include the lowers that were for sale first 
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Originally Posted By Muad:
You must have missed my note on age 115: "After over 11 months of waiting, ATF finally replied to us regarding the BFS. They stated that our prototype was legal.." Originally Posted By Muad:
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
It still only fires once for every pull of the trigger. The definition doesn't preclude what happens on the release of the trigger. So while I am not an attorney, I would expect that the rifle definition would not change. "After over 11 months of waiting, ATF finally replied to us regarding the BFS. They stated that our prototype was legal.." and again I wish they would release it to the public but its a no go from them. I really do not why they will not release it. Franklin armory please release it
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Originally Posted By GunSafe: and again I wish they would release it to the public but its a no go from them. I really do not why they will not release it. Franklin armory please release it Originally Posted By GunSafe: Originally Posted By Muad: Originally Posted By iNeXile556: Originally Posted By franklinarmory: It still only fires once for every pull of the trigger. The definition doesn't preclude what happens on the release of the trigger. So while I am not an attorney, I would expect that the rifle definition would not change. "After over 11 months of waiting, ATF finally replied to us regarding the BFS. They stated that our prototype was legal.." and again I wish they would release it to the public but its a no go from them. I really do not why they will not release it. Franklin armory please release it FosTech is holding on to theirs, too. Again, one thing about the 3MR that I liked, was that they were including a nice little credit card type deal with the ATF determination letter printed on it. It made keeping that handy easy, just toss it in the case or your wallet. If anyone ever questioned you; bam, you've got it right there. I thought I still had the one they gave me at SHOT, but I can't find it. I might had tossed it, since I don't own a 3MR trigger. I'm sure both Franklin and FosTech will release the letters at some point. |
RIP WMD :(
"Some hills are not worth dying on and internet drama is one of them.." - a wise man I call sir
"Some hills are not worth dying on and internet drama is one of them.." - a wise man I call sir
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Originally Posted By Muad: You must have missed my note on age 115: "After over 11 months of waiting, ATF finally replied to us regarding the BFS. They stated that our prototype was legal.." Originally Posted By Muad: Originally Posted By iNeXile556: Originally Posted By franklinarmory: It still only fires once for every pull of the trigger. The definition doesn't preclude what happens on the release of the trigger. So while I am not an attorney, I would expect that the rifle definition would not change. "After over 11 months of waiting, ATF finally replied to us regarding the BFS. They stated that our prototype was legal.." |
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Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
Never had a question of the legality of your trigger, but the legal classification of the weapon equipped with it. It's not a machine gun that's a given, I have trap guns with release fire triggers, so why the long wait is beyond me. I bet the ATF determined that it is not a machine gun but never considered the case of a firearm. Which is completely understandable as the ATF is not worried about converting a rifle to a simple firearm. Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
Originally Posted By Muad:
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
It still only fires once for every pull of the trigger. The definition doesn't preclude what happens on the release of the trigger. So while I am not an attorney, I would expect that the rifle definition would not change. "After over 11 months of waiting, ATF finally replied to us regarding the BFS. They stated that our prototype was legal.." Never had a question of the legality of your trigger, but the legal classification of the weapon equipped with it. It's not a machine gun that's a given, I have trap guns with release fire triggers, so why the long wait is beyond me. I bet the ATF determined that it is not a machine gun but never considered the case of a firearm. Which is completely understandable as the ATF is not worried about converting a rifle to a simple firearm. I thought the definition of a firearm is pretty clear under the CGA of 1968. A rifle, pistol, shotgun, SBR, SBS, Machine gun, AOW and DD are "firearms" based on the fact they use an explosive to propel a projectile. Or am I missing something. I need to pull out the act again and re-read it. Maybe I'm not understanding your question. |
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Originally Posted By GunSafe: I thought the definition of a firearm is pretty clear under the CGA of 1968. A rifle, pistol, shotgun, SBR, SBS, Machine gun, AOW and DD are "firearms" based on the fact they use an explosive to propel a projectile. Or am I missing something. I need to pull out the act again and re-read it. Maybe I'm not understanding your question. Originally Posted By GunSafe: Originally Posted By iNeXile556: Originally Posted By Muad: Originally Posted By iNeXile556: Originally Posted By franklinarmory: It still only fires once for every pull of the trigger. The definition doesn't preclude what happens on the release of the trigger. So while I am not an attorney, I would expect that the rifle definition would not change. "After over 11 months of waiting, ATF finally replied to us regarding the BFS. They stated that our prototype was legal.." Never had a question of the legality of your trigger, but the legal classification of the weapon equipped with it. It's not a machine gun that's a given, I have trap guns with release fire triggers, so why the long wait is beyond me. I bet the ATF determined that it is not a machine gun but never considered the case of a firearm. Which is completely understandable as the ATF is not worried about converting a rifle to a simple firearm. I thought the definition of a firearm is pretty clear under the CGA of 1968. A rifle, pistol, shotgun, SBR, SBS, Machine gun, AOW and DD are "firearms" based on the fact they use an explosive to propel a projectile. Or am I missing something. I need to pull out the act again and re-read it. Maybe I'm not understanding your question. The definition of a rifle states it fires "only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger." The machine gun definition states "shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger." By these definitions the host weapon would not be a machine gun as pull and release are two distinct functions of the trigger. However because it also fires one the release, not just the pull, it may not meet the definition of a rifle and would be classified as a title 1 firearm but not a rifle. Both the rifle and machine gun definitions were written at the same time so relevance must be given to the fact that the two different uses of the triggers in the definitions had two different meanings. Does the rifle definition mean it fires only on the pull function of the trigger? If it doesn't why did "they" use pull instead of function as found in the machine gun definition? This question is strictly academic as in either case the host firearm is not under the purview of the NFA and completely legal. It's just a good idea to know the legal classification of your firearm. |
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FOSTECH STILL HAS MY MONEY AFTER LYING TO ME, ALL WHILE BEING SILENT ON DETAILS.
VAPORWARE.
Delays are somewhat acceptable... silence and deception while holding money are NOT. ... yet here I stand, in line like the rest, with my dick in my hand and a prayer in my heart. 
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Originally Posted By GunSafe:
echo has been pushed to the end of july for now Originally Posted By GunSafe:
Originally Posted By usar_ds:
i wanna see the bfs on a semi mg42 that uses a an ar15 fcg. if only i could afford a semi mg42 i would be spending 8mm this way right now. any eta on BFS or echo for other platforms? echo has been pushed to the end of july for now The nice lady on the phone said October. Something about "heat treating a trigger"... Seems strange to have a six month delay. |
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While we are all waiting on the ECHO, Franklin is releasing more BFS triggers, which will start shipping in just weeks... not months.... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/697945_Franklin_Armory_Gen_3_BFS_Released_.html |
RIP WMD :(
"Some hills are not worth dying on and internet drama is one of them.." - a wise man I call sir
"Some hills are not worth dying on and internet drama is one of them.." - a wise man I call sir
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Originally Posted By franklinarmory:
Today we are anouncing BFSIII. God willing, we will be ready to ship in August. https://m.youtube.com/user/ar15hunters Thank you Will for taking the time to review the BFSIII! Come on guys please release the ATF letter for the old one????? |
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Originally Posted By franklinarmory: Today we are anouncing BFSIII. God willing, we will be ready to ship in August. https://m.youtube.com/user/ar15hunters Thank you Will for taking the time to review the BFSIII! Thanks for the opportunity! |
RIP WMD :(
"Some hills are not worth dying on and internet drama is one of them.." - a wise man I call sir
"Some hills are not worth dying on and internet drama is one of them.." - a wise man I call sir
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Where in this thread did a member show how he modded his trigger to act as a binary trigger?
Nevermind, found the thread. Need M16A2 burst components to mod. |
I hated going to weddings. All the grandmas would poke me and say "You're next". They stopped that when I started doing it to them at funerals.
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Originally Posted By 50cal:
Where in this thread did a member show how he modded his trigger to act as a binary trigger? Nevermind, found the thread. Need M16A2 burst components to mod. In today's politically charged environment, that could get a person in some hot water. Franklin Armory and Fostech both spent quite a bit of time and energy and money designing, testing and receiving approval for their design to make sure that it did not fit any of the definitions of a machine gun. Tinkering around with a FCG to make it do something that it was not intended could spell trouble. |
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