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Posted: 1/20/2014 4:36:24 PM EDT
| I just built a new 18" AR for a buddy. He just had the chance to shoot it yesterday, and he called me to tell me that it would only shoot once then he had to re-cock it. I wasn't with him so I don't know for sure, but I think it must be short stroking. After thinking back through everything I used to build it, the only thing I can think of that may be causing the problem is that I used this barrel which is actually a 5.56 with a rifle length gas port, not a .223 barrel. Is this is what is probably causing the problem? And if so, can this be fixed with a different buffer? If not, are there any other possible fixes, or will he always have to find 5.56 ammo to make it work properly? Thanks for any help and suggestions. |
| Uh oh! Sorry if this is a topic that has been beat to death! I have searched for short stroking fixes, which is where I found what I think was the problem, but I wanted to ask y'all about my specific build. Again, I'm kinda new to builds, so sorry and thanks to anybody who can lend a helping hand. |
| Sooo, I just figured out what a 13er is. I can't stand how some people on here feel so superior that they have to put people down for asking simple, honest questions. I thought that is what this site was for, and I have learned almost everything I know about ARs from this site. I doubt when the makers/owners of this site started it they knew there would be so much belittling going on. When somebody asks a question that is within my field of expertise, I gladly answer the question and am glad that I could help. But hey, I guess some people just can't help but to bow their chests from behind their computer screen and try to make themselves feel better! Thanks to those who have given helpful responses. |
| To the Op My comment was not meant to pick at you or be mean in any way. If you notice I am a 13er. Your comment about not being able to shoot 223 instead of 556 in the rifle was off. The first reply was OH Boy I was just trying to show all other people who make these comments, that they need to realize what you just said. That we are all trying to learn. |
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Quoted:
Sooo, I just figured out what a 13er is. I can't stand how some people on here feel so superior that they have to put people down for asking simple, honest questions. I thought that is what this site was for, and I have learned almost everything I know about ARs from this site. I doubt when the makers/owners of this site started it they knew there would be so much belittling going on. When somebody asks a question that is within my field of expertise, I gladly answer the question and am glad that I could help. But hey, I guess some people just can't help but to bow their chests from behind their computer screen and try to make themselves feel better! Thanks to those who have given helpful responses. i agree we were all n00bs at once, for me that was about 12 months ago (yea i learn fast  ), but i see no value in putting others down when they have a simple question, especially in the gun community where we are all supposed to be brothers and sisters united against the legions of politics trying to ban our freedoms,
if there wasn't a sense of helping others in the gun community we wouldn't be able to defeat things the like the 2013 assault weapons ban (semi defeat, unfortunate some states that ban has been put into effect  )
educate one and other because chances are you know something i don't and vise versa, we can all grow but it takes the willingness to do so |
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Quoted:
To the Op My comment was not meant to pick at you or be mean in any way. If you notice I am a 13er. Your comment about not being able to shoot 223 instead of 556 in the rifle was off. The first reply was OH Boy I was just trying to show all other people who make these comments, that they need to realize what you just said. That we are all trying to learn. Okay, sorry for taking it the wrong way. I've just seen it happen on here way too many times. Anyway, thanks for clearing it up. About the 223 vs 5.56, are you saying that him shooting .223 bullets from a 5.56 chamber shouldn't make it short stroke? Also, if when I look at it, it is in fact short stroking, could a lighter buffer be used to fix the problem? |
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Quoted:
i agree we were all n00bs at once, for me that was about 12 months ago (yea i learn fast ), but i see no value in putting others down when they have a simple question, especially in the gun community where we are all supposed to be brothers and sisters united against the legions of politics trying to ban our freedoms,
if there wasn't a sense of helping others in the gun community we wouldn't be able to defeat things the like the 2013 assault weapons ban (semi defeat, unfortunate some states that ban has been put into effect )
educate one and other because chances are you know something i don't and vise versa, we can all grow but it takes the willingness to do so Quoted:
Quoted:
Sooo, I just figured out what a 13er is. I can't stand how some people on here feel so superior that they have to put people down for asking simple, honest questions. I thought that is what this site was for, and I have learned almost everything I know about ARs from this site. I doubt when the makers/owners of this site started it they knew there would be so much belittling going on. When somebody asks a question that is within my field of expertise, I gladly answer the question and am glad that I could help. But hey, I guess some people just can't help but to bow their chests from behind their computer screen and try to make themselves feel better! Thanks to those who have given helpful responses. i agree we were all n00bs at once, for me that was about 12 months ago (yea i learn fast ), but i see no value in putting others down when they have a simple question, especially in the gun community where we are all supposed to be brothers and sisters united against the legions of politics trying to ban our freedoms,
if there wasn't a sense of helping others in the gun community we wouldn't be able to defeat things the like the 2013 assault weapons ban (semi defeat, unfortunate some states that ban has been put into effect )
educate one and other because chances are you know something i don't and vise versa, we can all grow but it takes the willingness to do so +1.... these are EXACTLY my thoughts. |
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Quoted:
Okay, sorry for taking it the wrong way. I've just seen it happen on here way too many times. Anyway, thanks for clearing it up. About the 223 vs 5.56, are you saying that him shooting .223 bullets from a 5.56 chamber shouldn't make it short stroke? Also, if when I look at it, it is in fact short stroking, could a lighter buffer be used to fix the problem? Quoted:
Quoted:
To the Op My comment was not meant to pick at you or be mean in any way. If you notice I am a 13er. Your comment about not being able to shoot 223 instead of 556 in the rifle was off. The first reply was OH Boy I was just trying to show all other people who make these comments, that they need to realize what you just said. That we are all trying to learn. Okay, sorry for taking it the wrong way. I've just seen it happen on here way too many times. Anyway, thanks for clearing it up. About the 223 vs 5.56, are you saying that him shooting .223 bullets from a 5.56 chamber shouldn't make it short stroke? Also, if when I look at it, it is in fact short stroking, could a lighter buffer be used to fix the problem? I agree I have been looking at this website since 2001. I did not join then because I did not have internet at home. I have seen it happen a lot since then. Shooting 223 ammo in a 5.56 chamber is not going to make it short stroke. Yes 223 is not as hot as a full 556 load, but I would look at the mag first. A lighter buffer will not help if the bolt is opening all the way now |
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Black Hole seems to have a good rep, so I wouldn't blame the barrel yet. As others have said, try a couple of different mags first. If the bolt will lock back manually, check to make sure the gas block is on correctly. You might also drop a couple of different spent rounds into the barrel, release the bolt (don't ride it home) and make sure the casings will come out easily to make sure you don't have any extra drag caused by a stuck casing. Running it yourself will be the only sure way. He wasn't resting the mag on the bench was he? Good luck |
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So,
Obviously...something is wrong... There are tons of possibilities... Start from scratch with only first hand knowledge....ONLY!...second hand accounts usually end up as #2 IMHO... So, take the gun and start by cleaning, inspecting for burs/misalignments, rubbing, and correct installation of every part... Next oil it...well...is not even broken in yet...oil is your friend... Nex run it through a full function check... Fire one shot look for lock back... Then two.... Report back with the answers... I myself have built lots of guns...well into the 100's...and I've had a few mysteries...but they never went to a customer before they were running like a Swiss clock... B |
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Sounds to me as though it is indeed short stroking, which is *typically* a problem with an undergassed gun. I would hazard a guess that there is enough gas to eject a shell, but not enough to load a new round.
As mention above you can do some troubleshooting by shooting a mag with only 1 round in it, if it locks back, then the problem is not with the gas system, but if as I suspect it does not lock the bolt back then its probably undergassed. If the rifle is mechanically undergassed you can swap buffers, or try re aligning the gas port. It is worth mentioning that a brand new rifle does need to be broken in, and shot lubed. Tolerances are still very tight so it might not be 100% functional until it wears in a bit, the barrel, gas block, and gas tube will also seal themselves with carbon buildup increasing gas pressure back to the bolt. So test the last round hold open to determine if it is a gas problem, then check gas block alignment, then lube gratuitously and fire some hot loads through it |
| another vote for a miss alighned gas block.... there should be .015 gap between shoulder& block... as some have said lube& do a function check on the lower& then check the bolt hold open... dont rule out opening up the gas port a little if nothing else works... |
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The basic causes for failing to feed but ejecting:
Misaligned gas block Loose seal on gas block (who makes the gas block) Too heavy a buffer BCG gas key loose or one screw broken Soft loaded ammo Magazine issues What we also need to know: What ammo? What BCG (brand and if it's semi-auto or a full auto carrier)? Buffer weight? |
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With a 5.56 barrel you can shoot both 5.56 and.223 whereas with a .223 you cannot. So I font think it would be that. I agree with others that it can be misaligned gas block, tubing or what not but I'd say you need to vet your hands on it to get a more accurate description of why it seems to not be working , pics always help for visual as well.
Good luck let us know |
| He lives out of town so it will be a little while before I am able to get my hands on the gun again. He told me that it is NOT locking back after the last round in a magazine, so I'm assuming it is, in fact, a gas issue. I guess I'm going to give him suggestions listed above until I can get the gun and check for gas block alignment. Does anybody have any suggestions for how to check the alignment and to align it properly if I have to move it? The gas block is an Ice Arms and the whole buffer tube kit is Spikes. Thanks so much for the helpful replies to help me figure this thing out. |
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