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Posted: 12/29/2014 6:12:46 PM EDT
| Any word on the next gen Elcan SpecterDR? Are they even developing a new model or upgrading the current gen? I'm about to pull the trigger on the 1-4x 5.56, would hate to if there's a new one right around the corner. |
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I thought I remembered seeing a picture of a rumored Gen IV SpecterDR about a year or so ago. Let me see if I can dig up the picture or any info.
In any case, I'd wait until after SHOT before making your purchase if you're worried about new models coming out. If there is something new, it'll be announced/featured there. ETA: Well, in my limited searching, I can't seem to find the pictures. Wish I'd saved them. All I remember is they changed the corrective internal lens from rotating on the horizontal plane to rotating on the vertical plane. I also am not entirely sure it was a yet to be released re-design of the SpecterDR or if it was a one off prototype that won't see production. Maybe somebody will be along to chime in who can find it. 
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I haven't heard of a new standard Elcan SpecterDR 1x/4x.
The only project I know of is the Elcan TRI FOV; 1x/3x/9x scope. 
http://www.elcansightingsystems.com/products/dual_role_sights.php http://www.armament.com/specter-tr-1-3-9 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/17/elcan-specter-tr-1-3-9x-shot-show-optic-preview/ |
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I haven't heard of a new standard Elcan SpecterDR 1x/4x. The only project I know of is the Elcan TRI FOV; 1x/3x/9x scope. http://www.armament.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/specter-1-3-9.jpg?itok=VU34ucgG http://www.elcansightingsystems.com/products/dual_role_sights.php http://www.armament.com/specter-tr-1-3-9 http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/01/17/elcan-specter-tr-1-3-9x-shot-show-optic-preview/ Yeah, that wasn't the one I was talking about. I only saw it once (pretty sure it was in a thread here), and it looked almost identical to the Gen 3 SpecterDR, just had a knob on the bolt release side of the gun to change magnification instead of the throw lever. ETA: Found it! But it happens to be a 1-6x model, not a 1-4x model, so I guess my comments don't apply. Unless of course they re-do the 1-4x model as well.
http://adsinc.com/online-catalogs/day-scopes-weapons-optics/raytheon-elcan-specter-dr-1-6x-enhanced-dual-role-weapon-sight/ Basically, if you're worried about a "Gen IV" coming soon, wait til SHOT. If they are going to make one, you'll see pictures of it from there. |
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Yeah, that wasn't the one I was talking about. I only saw it once (pretty sure it was in a thread here), and it looked almost identical to the Gen 3 SpecterDR, just had a knob on the bolt release side of the gun to change magnification instead of the throw lever. ETA: Found it! But it happens to be a 1-6x model, not a 1-4x model, so I guess my comments don't apply. Unless of course they re-do the 1-4x model as well.
http://assets.adsinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/SpecterDR1-6x_MG_2757.jpg http://adsinc.com/online-catalogs/day-scopes-weapons-optics/raytheon-elcan-specter-dr-1-6x-enhanced-dual-role-weapon-sight/ Basically, if you're worried about a "Gen IV" coming soon, wait til SHOT. If they are going to make one, you'll see pictures of it from there. That thing looks sweet. However, I'm guessing its going to be priced in line with the TR 1/3/9x and looks heavy as hell, at least thats what I'll keep telling myself while I enjoy my Mk6. Plus a bird in the hand and all that jazz, I remember being excited for the 1-8x short dot after the shot show in 2011. |
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That thing looks sweet. However, I'm guessing its going to be priced in line with the TR 1/3/9x and looks heavy as hell, at least thats what I'll keep telling myself while I enjoy my Mk6. Plus a bird in the hand and all that jazz, I remember being excited for the 1-8x short dot after the shot show in 2011. Quoted:
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Yeah, that wasn't the one I was talking about. I only saw it once (pretty sure it was in a thread here), and it looked almost identical to the Gen 3 SpecterDR, just had a knob on the bolt release side of the gun to change magnification instead of the throw lever. ETA: Found it! But it happens to be a 1-6x model, not a 1-4x model, so I guess my comments don't apply. Unless of course they re-do the 1-4x model as well.
http://assets.adsinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/SpecterDR1-6x_MG_2757.jpg http://adsinc.com/online-catalogs/day-scopes-weapons-optics/raytheon-elcan-specter-dr-1-6x-enhanced-dual-role-weapon-sight/ Basically, if you're worried about a "Gen IV" coming soon, wait til SHOT. If they are going to make one, you'll see pictures of it from there. That thing looks sweet. However, I'm guessing its going to be priced in line with the TR 1/3/9x and looks heavy as hell, at least thats what I'll keep telling myself while I enjoy my Mk6. Plus a bird in the hand and all that jazz, I remember being excited for the 1-8x short dot after the shot show in 2011. After watching and reading a few reviews and comparisons between the Short Dot 1-8x and the CQBSS, I'm really wanting to get my hands on an S&B to test it out. While I do like my CQBSS, the eyebox is a tad finicky for me, and you can definitely tell it's not very close to a true 1x (I know it's a 1.1-8x). |
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The weight difference really isn't that great. I compared my favorite scope, a TA31ECOS, to a comparably equipped DR 1-4X (TA31 ECOS has an ARD, LFU, RMD, backup sight, and LaRue mount, the ELCAN has an ARD, Docter sight and mount, backup sight, and its factory ARMS mount).
The ELCAN does look heavier and it is slightly heavier, but I was surprised at the negligible difference. The dot/reticle brightness turret drives me nuts, they should put the white line on the scope body, and dot/reticle brightness intensity setting numbers on the turret so you can see it when you rotate it. |
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Seems like they're playing catch up. ELCAN's stuff is looking quite antiquated, compared to the competition in the variable scope market. Actually, the ELCAN SpecterDR 1x/4x is one of the most compact variable power optics available. And these new offerings are right in line with the current trends in the industry. I'm looking forward to seeing both of these new versions in actual use. |
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After watching and reading a few reviews and comparisons between the Short Dot 1-8x and the CQBSS, I'm really wanting to get my hands on an S&B to test it out. While I do like my CQBSS, the eyebox is a tad finicky for me, and you can definitely tell it's not very close to a true 1x (I know it's a 1.1-8x). Quoted:
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Yeah, that wasn't the one I was talking about. I only saw it once (pretty sure it was in a thread here), and it looked almost identical to the Gen 3 SpecterDR, just had a knob on the bolt release side of the gun to change magnification instead of the throw lever. ETA: Found it! But it happens to be a 1-6x model, not a 1-4x model, so I guess my comments don't apply. Unless of course they re-do the 1-4x model as well.
http://assets.adsinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/SpecterDR1-6x_MG_2757.jpg http://adsinc.com/online-catalogs/day-scopes-weapons-optics/raytheon-elcan-specter-dr-1-6x-enhanced-dual-role-weapon-sight/ Basically, if you're worried about a "Gen IV" coming soon, wait til SHOT. If they are going to make one, you'll see pictures of it from there. That thing looks sweet. However, I'm guessing its going to be priced in line with the TR 1/3/9x and looks heavy as hell, at least thats what I'll keep telling myself while I enjoy my Mk6. Plus a bird in the hand and all that jazz, I remember being excited for the 1-8x short dot after the shot show in 2011. After watching and reading a few reviews and comparisons between the Short Dot 1-8x and the CQBSS, I'm really wanting to get my hands on an S&B to test it out. While I do like my CQBSS, the eyebox is a tad finicky for me, and you can definitely tell it's not very close to a true 1x (I know it's a 1.1-8x). I have only messed around with the CQBSS on a few occasions, I really like it with the horus reticle but when I had them both side by side at the SHOT show the S&B stood out to me; the problem you describe at 1.1x is completely eliminated with the CC setting on the short dot. The original MSRP of the short dot was quite a bit lower than the Leupold, too bad they never made it to market at that price. I don't know how similar the current production models are to the ones I got to see but I'd imagine they are almost identical. |
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Seems like they're playing catch up. ELCAN's stuff is looking quite antiquated, compared to the competition in the variable scope market. I'm kind of confused by this statement. There is NOTHING comparable to an Elcan in the current low powered variable market, or any other scope market for that matter. What do you think is antiquated? |
| I think the Leupold Mk6, Trijicon VCOG, or Vortex Razor are better alternatives since they have more magnification on the top end and more usable eye relief vs the SpecterDR. When I look at the SpecterDR's pricing vs features offering, it looks antiquated to me. |
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I think the Leupold Mk6, Trijicon VCOG, or Vortex Razor are better alternatives since they have more magnification on the top end and more usable eye relief vs the SpecterDR. When I look at the SpecterDR's pricing vs features offering, it looks antiquated to me. Agreed that there are better things out there on the market for the segment of users that are simply looking for a variable low powered option with great glass. Where the SpecterDR outclasses them, at least IMO, is it's robustness. I feel much more comfortable banging around my rifle with an Elcan than I do banging around my rifle that has a CQBSS on it. Unless you are specifically looking to do a "clone" build, or need something on par with the ACOG in the ruggedness department, there are definitely better options out there. This is obviously excluding the VCOG, which I think is the only true competitor in almost all categories with the Elcan, with the only excepted category being magnification adjustment which I still think is better on the Elcan. Either way, I think they need to bring that 1-6x that I posted a few posts up to market at around the same price point as the VCOG. I think it'd be a decent competitor. |
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I have a number of low power conventional optics in the 1-6x range. The Kahles and the Swarvo are just plain excellent optics, but I don't make an apples to apples comparison between them and the Elcans. I think the best overall combat/hard use optic is the Elcan and I guess USSOCOM must agree.
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Agreed that there are better things out there on the market for the segment of users that are simply looking for a variable low powered option with great glass. Where the SpecterDR outclasses them, at least IMO, is it's robustness. I feel much more comfortable banging around my rifle with an Elcan than I do banging around my rifle that has a CQBSS on it. Unless you are specifically looking to do a "clone" build, or need something on par with the ACOG in the ruggedness department, there are definitely better options out there. This is obviously excluding the VCOG, which I think is the only true competitor in almost all categories with the Elcan, with the only excepted category being magnification adjustment which I still think is better on the Elcan. Either way, I think they need to bring that 1-6x that I posted a few posts up to market at around the same price point as the VCOG. I think it'd be a decent competitor. Quoted:
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I think the Leupold Mk6, Trijicon VCOG, or Vortex Razor are better alternatives since they have more magnification on the top end and more usable eye relief vs the SpecterDR. When I look at the SpecterDR's pricing vs features offering, it looks antiquated to me. Agreed that there are better things out there on the market for the segment of users that are simply looking for a variable low powered option with great glass. Where the SpecterDR outclasses them, at least IMO, is it's robustness. I feel much more comfortable banging around my rifle with an Elcan than I do banging around my rifle that has a CQBSS on it. Unless you are specifically looking to do a "clone" build, or need something on par with the ACOG in the ruggedness department, there are definitely better options out there. This is obviously excluding the VCOG, which I think is the only true competitor in almost all categories with the Elcan, with the only excepted category being magnification adjustment which I still think is better on the Elcan. Either way, I think they need to bring that 1-6x that I posted a few posts up to market at around the same price point as the VCOG. I think it'd be a decent competitor. I have a Mk6 and have an Elcan on the way. I've spend a little time with the elcan in the past and feel its anything but antiquated, there is a ton of innovation in that scope and currently nothing else like it. Like anything else, especially variable optics it's all about compromise what features you value and how you plan on using it. Something like a Mk6, vortex, swaro, vcog, etc. is going to vomit in the face of the elcan when being used at longer ranges. However, if you are looking to transition to 1x and have something close to a RDS I don't think you can beat the Elacn for speed or 1x ability. I'm looking forward to doing a head to head comparison between the Mk6 and Elcan on a couple of my rifles in a variety of shooting situations. I don't know if I can afford to keep both, they do overlap enough in capability I'll probably have to choose one and sell the other. I have an eotech and a Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x that fit on either end of what I want the variable to do, so it will be interesting to see what sways me to choose one over the other. |
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I have a Mk6 and have an Elcan on the way. I've spend a little time with the elcan in the past and feel its anything but antiquated, there is a ton of innovation in that scope and currently nothing else like it. Like anything else, especially variable optics it's all about compromise what features you value and how you plan on using it. Something like a Mk6, vortex, swaro, vcog, etc. is going to vomit in the face of the elcan when being used at longer ranges. However, if you are looking to transition to 1x and have something close to a RDS I don't think you can beat the Elacn for speed or 1x ability. I'm looking forward to doing a head to head comparison between the Mk6 and Elcan on a couple of my rifles in a variety of shooting situations. I don't know if I can afford to keep both, they do overlap enough in capability I'll probably have to choose one and sell the other. I have an eotech and a Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x that fit on either end of what I want the variable to do, so it will be interesting to see what sways me to choose one over the other. Quoted:
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I think the Leupold Mk6, Trijicon VCOG, or Vortex Razor are better alternatives since they have more magnification on the top end and more usable eye relief vs the SpecterDR. When I look at the SpecterDR's pricing vs features offering, it looks antiquated to me. Agreed that there are better things out there on the market for the segment of users that are simply looking for a variable low powered option with great glass. Where the SpecterDR outclasses them, at least IMO, is it's robustness. I feel much more comfortable banging around my rifle with an Elcan than I do banging around my rifle that has a CQBSS on it. Unless you are specifically looking to do a "clone" build, or need something on par with the ACOG in the ruggedness department, there are definitely better options out there. This is obviously excluding the VCOG, which I think is the only true competitor in almost all categories with the Elcan, with the only excepted category being magnification adjustment which I still think is better on the Elcan. Either way, I think they need to bring that 1-6x that I posted a few posts up to market at around the same price point as the VCOG. I think it'd be a decent competitor. I have a Mk6 and have an Elcan on the way. I've spend a little time with the elcan in the past and feel its anything but antiquated, there is a ton of innovation in that scope and currently nothing else like it. Like anything else, especially variable optics it's all about compromise what features you value and how you plan on using it. Something like a Mk6, vortex, swaro, vcog, etc. is going to vomit in the face of the elcan when being used at longer ranges. However, if you are looking to transition to 1x and have something close to a RDS I don't think you can beat the Elacn for speed or 1x ability. I'm looking forward to doing a head to head comparison between the Mk6 and Elcan on a couple of my rifles in a variety of shooting situations. I don't know if I can afford to keep both, they do overlap enough in capability I'll probably have to choose one and sell the other. I have an eotech and a Leupold Mk4 3.5-10x that fit on either end of what I want the variable to do, so it will be interesting to see what sways me to choose one over the other. I will say, my main complaint with the Elcan is the small-ish eyebox. It's the closest to a true 1x I've ever used, but the eyebox is a little annoying. I still won't be getting rid of mine though. 
I would love to try that 1-6x I posted halfway up the page. |
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I will say, my main complaint with the Elcan is the small-ish eyebox. It's the closest to a true 1x I've ever used, but the eyebox is a little annoying. I still won't be getting rid of mine though.
I would love to try that 1-6x I posted halfway up the page. I would too. It looks like its about the size/weight of the current 1.5-6x and I'd imagine it will be priced where the 1/3/9x TR is going to be $3k+, at least thats what I'm going to tell myself seeing as how I just bought a SU-230. Just doing a quick comparison today the eyebox on the Elcan seemed to be better than the Mk6 and wasn't an issue. Eye relief is a different story, I had to remove my BUIS to get the Elcan far enough back and it's still less than the Mk6, I'm sure I'll get use to it (I shoot with my stock all the way out, no NTCH for me). On 1x the Elcan is in a different world, its like looking through a toilet paper roll tube, with the Mk6 my eye has to adjust and it is a much more distorted around the edges. I'll do a better comparison when I have more time to shoot. |
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I've heard word that an Army SMU uses the Vortex Razor Gen II. The robustness of the Vortex is probably in line with the Elcan. Not sure what that has to do with this thread but I'll say this; I'm more willing to trust the Elcan that was developed specifically to meet .mil standard for durability and robustness with the deep pockets of Raytheon behind it than Vortex. Not to say Vortex doesn't make good optics but they are going to be outclassed and outspend in this regard. |
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Not sure what that has to do with this thread but I'll say this; I'm more willing to trust the Elcan that was developed specifically to meet .mil standard for durability and robustness with the deep pockets of Raytheon behind it than Vortex. Not to say Vortex doesn't make good optics but they are going to be outclassed and outspend in this regard. Quoted:
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I've heard word that an Army SMU uses the Vortex Razor Gen II. The robustness of the Vortex is probably in line with the Elcan. Not sure what that has to do with this thread but I'll say this; I'm more willing to trust the Elcan that was developed specifically to meet .mil standard for durability and robustness with the deep pockets of Raytheon behind it than Vortex. Not to say Vortex doesn't make good optics but they are going to be outclassed and outspend in this regard. Yup. |
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Not sure what that has to do with this thread but I'll say this; I'm more willing to trust the Elcan that was developed specifically to meet .mil standard for durability and robustness with the deep pockets of Raytheon behind it than Vortex. Not to say Vortex doesn't make good optics but they are going to be outclassed and outspend in this regard. Quoted:
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I've heard word that an Army SMU uses the Vortex Razor Gen II. The robustness of the Vortex is probably in line with the Elcan. Not sure what that has to do with this thread but I'll say this; I'm more willing to trust the Elcan that was developed specifically to meet .mil standard for durability and robustness with the deep pockets of Raytheon behind it than Vortex. Not to say Vortex doesn't make good optics but they are going to be outclassed and outspend in this regard. I was meaning to quote the durability portion being discussed above. And yes I do agree but it's still impressive that a small company (compared to Raytheon) has managed to see use as the optic of choice by the Unit for their 5.56 carbines and some 240's. |
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Quoted: I'm kind of confused by this statement. There is NOTHING comparable to an Elcan in the current low powered variable market, or any other scope market for that matter. What do you think is antiquated? Quoted: Quoted: Seems like they're playing catch up. ELCAN's stuff is looking quite antiquated, compared to the competition in the variable scope market. I'm kind of confused by this statement. There is NOTHING comparable to an Elcan in the current low powered variable market, or any other scope market for that matter. What do you think is antiquated? I'm still waiting for some clarity on this too. I went ahead and purchased the 1-4 specterdr, I figure even if they create a newer version I !most definitely would not be able to afford it.
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I would too. It looks like its about the size/weight of the current 1.5-6x and I'd imagine it will be priced where the 1/3/9x TR is going to be $3k+, at least thats what I'm going to tell myself seeing as how I just bought a SU-230. Just doing a quick comparison today the eyebox on the Elcan seemed to be better than the Mk6 and wasn't an issue. Eye relief is a different story, I had to remove my BUIS to get the Elcan far enough back and it's still less than the Mk6, I'm sure I'll get use to it (I shoot with my stock all the way out, no NTCH for me). On 1x the Elcan is in a different world, its like looking through a toilet paper roll tube, with the Mk6 my eye has to adjust and it is a much more distorted around the edges. I'll do a better comparison when I have more time to shoot. Quoted:
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I will say, my main complaint with the Elcan is the small-ish eyebox. It's the closest to a true 1x I've ever used, but the eyebox is a little annoying. I still won't be getting rid of mine though.
I would love to try that 1-6x I posted halfway up the page. I would too. It looks like its about the size/weight of the current 1.5-6x and I'd imagine it will be priced where the 1/3/9x TR is going to be $3k+, at least thats what I'm going to tell myself seeing as how I just bought a SU-230. Just doing a quick comparison today the eyebox on the Elcan seemed to be better than the Mk6 and wasn't an issue. Eye relief is a different story, I had to remove my BUIS to get the Elcan far enough back and it's still less than the Mk6, I'm sure I'll get use to it (I shoot with my stock all the way out, no NTCH for me). On 1x the Elcan is in a different world, its like looking through a toilet paper roll tube, with the Mk6 my eye has to adjust and it is a much more distorted around the edges. I'll do a better comparison when I have more time to shoot. I haven't tried out a Mk6 yet, so I can't comment to that portion, but my Mk8 feels like it has a larger eyebox than my Elcan does. Also, having looked through a VCOG and a Razor 1-6x, those are better as well. Hell, my Burris MTAC 1-4x felt like it had a more forgiving eyebox.
I'm still not going to be getting rid of it. On a side note, the Elcan is utilized best if you shoot NTCH. I have room for rear BUIS and could actually bump my Elcan back one more notch towards the rear with how I shoot.
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I was meaning to quote the durability portion being discussed above. And yes I do agree but it's still impressive that a small company (compared to Raytheon) has managed to see use as the optic of choice by the Unit for their 5.56 carbines and some 240's. Quoted:
I was meaning to quote the durability portion being discussed above. And yes I do agree but it's still impressive that a small company (compared to Raytheon) has managed to see use as the optic of choice by the Unit for their 5.56 carbines and some 240's. Still not sure what this has to do with this thread. OP was asking about the possibility of a new Elcan, not wondering how it's durability compared to a Vortex. Quoted:
I'm still waiting for some clarity on this too. I went ahead and purchased the 1-4 specterdr, I figure even if they create a newer version I !most definitely would not be able to afford it. I don't think you'll be disappointed. I just got mine this week, I spent a little time with them before but look forward to putting a bunch of rounds down range with it and seeing how it stacks up vs my Leupold Mk6. |
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Yeah... I'm also waiting to hear more information about this: http://assets.adsinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/SpecterDR1-6x_MG_2757.jpg Quoted:
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You talking about the 1.5-6x? No I'm talking about the 1-6x Yeah... I'm also waiting to hear more information about this: http://assets.adsinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/SpecterDR1-6x_MG_2757.jpg I spoke to a retailer of Elcan who found out that it was a marketing strategy and not a production item. It was set to be taken off the ADS during the next printing. So sad cause it looked cool. |
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So it never went into production. I know however 10-15 of them pre production prototypes made their way to SPEC OPS and Crane. Some went to tier one contractors as working prototypes.
That makes those particular prototypes...rare and valuable. CONFIRMATION OF ITS EXISTENCE AND NON PRODUCTION STATUS..... Daniel Pettry Today at 9:48 AM To me Sir As of right now, the 1-6x is not in production and there is no plans in place for production. The information received at shot show was correct. Thanks. Daniel Pettry Product Manager (Rifle Sights) Raytheon ELCAN Optical Technologies 706-905-1283 |
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