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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/1/2021 8:30:44 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HaveBlue83: eventually ill do one. lets see the cad file / 3 view and iso print Can you eventually do one for me? I happen to have a C AF 20" match upper that's begging for this. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/2/2021 6:20:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: PappyM3]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ringer706: That’s great insight, thank you! And to confirm, the 3ID guns were fluted as well correct? Did you have experience with them in the field or just in passing? They were fluted behind the gas port, but I never counted the flutes. 12 sounds probable though. For the paint, I don’t know if it was flat, matte, or glossy paint when it started out, but after a few years the paint was somewhat glossy. I had experience with them in the field and maintaining them during a stint as the Company armorer. After deployments they would be sent to AMU for refit. During one deployment, one of the SDMs broke his lower receiver in a Bradley hatch. The only “correct” action was to ship the gun back to AMU and get a new one. That would have removed capability for months at least. So I swapped the two-stage trigger into one of our spare M16A4s and swapped the upper to get the SDMR mission capable again. Not at all my approved level of repair, since I was just an infantryman. After the deployment, AMU we’re like “sooo… this isn’t the serial number on our books”…  sorry, that one has already been DRMOed.I’ll dig through the other platoons’ pictures to see if there are any to share of the SDM-R in action. I loved that gun and the only thing keeping me from cloning it is that damned Daniel Defense handguard. The Larue 12” picatinny is close, but just not right. |
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Posted: 10/2/2021 3:01:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: ringer706]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PappyM3: They were fluted behind the gas port, but I never counted the flutes. 12 sounds probable though. For the paint, I don’t know if it was flat, matte, or glossy paint when it started out, but after a few years the paint was somewhat glossy. I had experience with them in the field and maintaining them during a stint as the Company armorer. After deployments they would be sent to AMU for refit. During one deployment, one of the SDMs broke his lower receiver in a Bradley hatch. The only “correct” action was to ship the gun back to AMU and get a new one. That would have removed capability for months at least. So I swapped the two-stage trigger into one of our spare M16A4s and swapped the upper to get the SDMR mission capable again. Not at all my approved level of repair, since I was just an infantryman. After the deployment, AMU we’re like “sooo… this isn’t the serial number on our books”… sorry, that one has already been DRMOed.I’ll dig through the other platoons’ pictures to see if there are any to share of the SDM-R in action. I loved that gun and the only thing keeping me from cloning it is that damned Daniel Defense handguard. The Larue 12” picatinny is close, but just not right. That's funny, whatever it takes right? Any photos in the field would be awesome though, so definitely looking forward to what you find. I sent out some FOIA requests to the 3rd ID and a few other departments for more info so hopefully there's something to be shared from that. There isn't really much out there so it'd be great to learn more about the program When you had it, do you remember if it was the KAC trigger? Or did they run geisseles? I decided to start the hunt for a handgaurd too so we'll see how long it takes to find one. There was one that just sold on the EE a few weeks ago actually, so they are out there. |
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Posted: 10/2/2021 3:49:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: Sinister]
[#4]
The TRADOC Warfighting Experiment funded 450 original rifles starting with 1-15 Infantry, then the entire 3rd Brigade of 3rd Infantry Division. That was extended again for 3ID attachments from 4ID at Fort Carson.
TRADOC paid for the barrels, Daniel rails, a KAC trigger (Tank and Automotive Command safety-certified for Army and USASOC/NAVSPECWAR SPRs -- Geisseles had not yet been Crane-certified for the USSOCOM SOPMOD Kit), Harris bipod and pic-rail attachment, GG&G side sling block, and 1,000 rounds of Black Hills 77s per rifle. Units were to provide their own ACOGs and Matechs. Douglas barrel blanks were cut, chambered, and threaded by Gene Barnett, a long-time friend of the AMU who also did generations worth of M21 sniper rifle barrels for us. Fluting was definitely done on the AMU's CNC lathes -- those things ran non-stop for weeks during duty hours. We installed the barrel extensions, drilled the gas port holes, milled the sight screw flats, and did final assembly and test-fire. Each SDM-R was held to the same precision standard as our across-the-course National Match M16s (five groups of ten shots of Black Hills 77 Match Kings fired from a mechanical rest. Each group at 300 Meters was-is required to be at 1-MOA or smaller). I think the final finish was Krylon high temperature grill paint from a rattle-can, or something like that -- mundane, common, cheap, and available. 3rd ID got a really good precision capability, quick, with enough time for training and quals before deploying. Jim Scoutten's (the host for the Shooting USA TV show on Outdoor Channel) son went through the USAMU DM course as a Joe before deploying. |
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Posted: 10/2/2021 6:36:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: USMCSGT0331]
[#5]
Originally Posted By PappyM3: I'll dig through the other platoons' pictures to see if there are any to share of the SDM-R in action. I loved that gun and the only thing keeping me from cloning it is that damned Daniel Defense handguard. The Larue 12" picatinny is close, but just not right. Keep an eye on the EE, sometimes they pop up for sale. The last one I saw on the EE was less that a year ago, the listing was up for almost 2 weeks and it finally sold for around $350. I bought one years ago and it's in really good condition, it was also pretty cheap. I also found a shorter DD rail (maybe 6"?) with the correct octagonal barrel nut, so I purchased it in case I found the correct DD 12" rail without the barrel nut. The octagonal nut is a difficult piece to find.   Originally Posted By Sinister: The TRADOC Warfighting Experiment funded 450 original rifles starting with 1-15 Infantry, then the entire 3rd Brigade of 3rd Infantry Division. That was extended again for 3ID attachments from 4ID at Fort Carson. TRADOC paid for the barrels, Daniel rails, a KAC trigger (Tank and Automotive Command safety-certified for Army and USASOC/NAVSPECWAR SPRs -- Geisseles had not yet been Crane-certified for the USSOCOM SOPMOD Kit), Harris bipod and pic-rail attachment, GG&G side sling block, and 1,000 rounds of Black Hills 77s per rifle. Units were to provide their own ACOGs and Matechs. Douglas barrel blanks were cut, chambered, and threaded by Gene Barnett, a long-time friend of the AMU who also did generations worth of M21 sniper rifle barrels for us. Fluting was definitely done on the AMU's CNC lathes -- those things ran non-stop for weeks during duty hours. We installed the barrel extensions, drilled the gas port holes, milled the sight screw flats, and did final assembly and test-fire. Each SDM-R was held to the same precision standard as our across-the-course National Match M16s (five groups of ten shots of Black Hills 77 Match Kings fired from a mechanical rest. Each group at 300 Meters was-is required to be at 1-MOA or smaller). I think the final finish was Krylon high temperature grill paint from a rattle-can, or something like that -- mundane, common, cheap, and available. 3rd ID got a really good precision capability, quick, with enough time for training and quals before deploying. Jim Sutton's (the host for the Shooting USA TV show on Outdoor Channel) son went through the USAMU DM course as a Joe before deploying. Thank you for the info, this really helps us out! |
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Posted: 10/2/2021 6:53:49 PM EST
[#6]
I just found all of the serial numbers for every SAM-R that was made, there's 101 total rifles. Every single SAM-R was built on an FN A2 lower with a 7 million serial number. The serial number range is 71xxxxx to 73xxxxx.
I also have a gen 1 KAC FSGB that was probably from one of the KAC test rifles. The first generation FSGB's are extremely rare, IIRC about 2 dozen were made before switching to the gen 2 FSGB. Some of the SAM-R's used these gen 1 FSGB, but most of them used the gen 2. Not sure what to with it, since I have other SAM-R uppers completed. Maybe do an SR16 build with a KAC 25125 rail or something.  |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 10/2/2021 8:20:19 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CMCctx: Can you eventually do one for me? I happen to have a C AF 20" match upper that's begging for this. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/4/2021 3:51:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: PappyM3]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: The TRADOC Warfighting Experiment funded 450 original rifles starting with 1-15 Infantry, then the entire 3rd Brigade of 3rd Infantry Division. That was extended again for 3ID attachments from 4ID at Fort Carson. TRADOC paid for the barrels, Daniel rails, a KAC trigger (Tank and Automotive Command safety-certified for Army and USASOC/NAVSPECWAR SPRs -- Geisseles had not yet been Crane-certified for the USSOCOM SOPMOD Kit), Harris bipod and pic-rail attachment, GG&G side sling block, and 1,000 rounds of Black Hills 77s per rifle. Units were to provide their own ACOGs and Matechs. Douglas barrel blanks were cut, chambered, and threaded by Gene Barnett, a long-time friend of the AMU who also did generations worth of M21 sniper rifle barrels for us. Fluting was definitely done on the AMU's CNC lathes -- those things ran non-stop for weeks during duty hours. We installed the barrel extensions, drilled the gas port holes, milled the sight screw flats, and did final assembly and test-fire. Each SDM-R was held to the same precision standard as our across-the-course National Match M16s (five groups of ten shots of Black Hills 77 Match Kings fired from a mechanical rest. Each group at 300 Meters was-is required to be at 1-MOA or smaller). I think the final finish was Krylon high temperature grill paint from a rattle-can, or something like that -- mundane, common, cheap, and available. 3rd ID got a really good precision capability, quick, with enough time for training and quals before deploying. Jim Sutton's (the host for the Shooting USA TV show on Outdoor Channel) son went through the USAMU DM course as a Joe before deploying. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: The TRADOC Warfighting Experiment funded 450 original rifles starting with 1-15 Infantry, then the entire 3rd Brigade of 3rd Infantry Division. That was extended again for 3ID attachments from 4ID at Fort Carson. TRADOC paid for the barrels, Daniel rails, a KAC trigger (Tank and Automotive Command safety-certified for Army and USASOC/NAVSPECWAR SPRs -- Geisseles had not yet been Crane-certified for the USSOCOM SOPMOD Kit), Harris bipod and pic-rail attachment, GG&G side sling block, and 1,000 rounds of Black Hills 77s per rifle. Units were to provide their own ACOGs and Matechs. Douglas barrel blanks were cut, chambered, and threaded by Gene Barnett, a long-time friend of the AMU who also did generations worth of M21 sniper rifle barrels for us. Fluting was definitely done on the AMU's CNC lathes -- those things ran non-stop for weeks during duty hours. We installed the barrel extensions, drilled the gas port holes, milled the sight screw flats, and did final assembly and test-fire. Each SDM-R was held to the same precision standard as our across-the-course National Match M16s (five groups of ten shots of Black Hills 77 Match Kings fired from a mechanical rest. Each group at 300 Meters was-is required to be at 1-MOA or smaller). I think the final finish was Krylon high temperature grill paint from a rattle-can, or something like that -- mundane, common, cheap, and available. 3rd ID got a really good precision capability, quick, with enough time for training and quals before deploying. Jim Sutton's (the host for the Shooting USA TV show on Outdoor Channel) son went through the USAMU DM course as a Joe before deploying. Great info, thanks. I suspected that AMU did the work on the barrel blanks, but didn't know for certain. Also, the AMU taught SDM course is/was fantastic. I was able to attend an MTT version they taught in Iraq. Originally Posted By ringer706: That's funny, whatever it takes right? Any photos in the field would be awesome though, so definitely looking forward to what you find. I sent out some FOIA requests to the 3rd ID and a few other departments for more info so hopefully there's something to be shared from that. There isn't really much out there so it'd be great to learn more about the program When you had it, do you remember if it was the KAC trigger? Or did they run geisseles? I decided to start the hunt for a handgaurd too so we'll see how long it takes to find one. There was one that just sold on the EE a few weeks ago actually, so they are out there. Here are some 1-15 IN, 3ID pictures from OIF V. The same guns were around for OIF III in 2005, but I don't have any pictures from that deployment. Some may scoff at me blacking out faces/PII of conventional forces, but whatever. I haven't asked if I can post their pictures and I respect privacy in today's world of facial recognition. Man, I forgot how common three point slings were for 20"ers back in 2007. Just as common as single point slings for M4s. Oof.      He was double duty as the SDM and also a CLS guy(green bag):   The battalion's sniper section used them too. This was before the M110 came out.  Boresighting a thermal scope. Useful for SKTs. 
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Posted: 10/4/2021 7:05:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: ringer706]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PappyM3: Great info, thanks. I suspected that AMU did the work on the barrel blanks, but didn't know for certain. Also, the AMU taught SDM course is/was fantastic. I was able to attend an MTT version they taught in Iraq. Here are some 1-15 IN, 3ID pictures from OIF V. The same guns were around for OIF III in 2005, but I don't have any pictures from that deployment. Some may scoff at me blacking out faces/PII of conventional forces, but whatever. I haven't asked if I can post their pictures and I respect privacy in today's world of facial recognition. Man, I forgot how common three point slings were for 20"ers back in 2007. Just as common as single point slings for M4s. Oof. https://i.imgur.com/iFKfBK1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Did58wf.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Omdibiw.jpg https://i.imgur.com/X8YUKRo.jpg https://i.imgur.com/HCzzyte.jpg Double duty as the SDM and also a CLS guy: https://i.imgur.com/bhUPXKJ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/ZWYtWUB.jpg The battalion's sniper section used them too. This was before the M110 came out. https://i.imgur.com/NIi9ylF.jpg Boresighting a thermal scope. Useful for SKTs. https://i.imgur.com/uEQduPE.jpg This is excellent, appreciate you sharing your experiences with them! This about tripled the number of good reference SDM-R photos. Do you remember which 3 point sling were the issuing at that time? Was it generally specter? ETA: I've seen in a lot of SDM photos that the auto sear is removed, was it standard practice to remove them on all of the issued SDM-R's? It looks like it's missing in the 2nd photo, but in the 3rd and 5th photo, it looks like it's installed. Maybe it's just the light? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 10/6/2021 6:07:18 AM EST
[#10]
awesome job, Pappy! appreciate the post
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Posted: 10/7/2021 3:26:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: orpheus762x51]
[#11]
James of War Machine LLC (War Block) has agreed to create a one off PWS/prototype SAM-R gas block.
It would be easier for him and cheaper per unit if multiples are made. If you're interested, DM me and I'll put you in touch with him.  Attached File |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2021 3:47:42 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By orpheus762x51: James of War Machine LLC (War Block) has agreed to create a one off PWS/prototype SAM-R gas block. It would be easier for him and cheaper per unit if multiples are made. If you're interested, DM me and I'll put you in touch with him. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/305821/Screenshot_20211007-162525_Drive_jpg-2121558.JPG     Bro... DM coming in HOT! I gotta see this thing through |
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Posted: 10/7/2021 3:54:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: Sinister]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CMCctx: Bro... DM coming in HOT! I gotta see this thing through Hokey Smokes, Bullwinkle! Get some 69s and 77s loaded, Booooooooyyyyy! 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/7/2021 5:34:27 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: DUDE! Seeing what I think you're plotting for this barrel (from your other thread), DIS GON' ROCK! Hokey Smokes, Bullwinkle! Get some 69s and 77s loaded, Booooooooyyyyy! this build has me stoked for him big time! I may be interested in one of those gasblocks, soo let me know when/if they'll be made so that i can get on that list. |
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Posted: 10/7/2021 5:51:59 PM EST
[#15]
I discovered this old-school thread and flipped through a few random pages, didn't see: Anyone have any photos of the USMC carbines with their Gemtech HALO suppressors installed?
Too many bare muzzles in this thread.
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Posted: 10/7/2021 6:07:36 PM EST
[#16]
These were posted a few pages back....
   
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Posted: 10/7/2021 6:37:13 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ringer706: These were posted a few pages back.... Those have the KAC cans, but nice pics! |
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Posted: 10/7/2021 8:18:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: ringer706]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kel: Those have the KAC cans, but nice pics! Reading is hard  . On the bright side, I bought an old PD-trade in Gemtech Halo from 2005 or 6, so if I can get a SAM-R clone made I'll be happy to blast that photo! Anyone want to hook a brother up with a FSGB...
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Posted: 10/7/2021 11:56:57 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kel: I discovered this old-school thread and flipped through a few random pages, didn't see: Anyone have any photos of the USMC carbines with their Gemtech HALO suppressors installed? Too many bare muzzles in this thread. The reason there's so many bare muzzles is because only a handful of very late SAM-R's ever used an NT4 silencer. Since there were so few used, photos of them are pretty rare. |
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Posted: 10/8/2021 11:08:58 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CMCctx: https://i.imgur.com/sBOMI4b.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Y3tomxG.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7oSJhIG.jpg https://i.imgur.com/b1pZXG3.jpg Bro... DM coming in HOT! I gotta see this thing through That looks gorgeous. All DMs replied to on the PWS repro blocks. |
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Posted: 10/8/2021 1:58:47 PM EST
[#21]
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/8/2021 2:41:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: CMCctx]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By orpheus762x51: It's been a while, but what about the PWS(?) Picatinny gas block? @HaveBlue83 any thoughts on zipping up one of these? Given the KAC FSGB costs about as much as the rest of the rifle, I could live with a pic rail block, provided it's this exact one (bayonet lug, taper pinned, rail at the same height as the upper/handguard). I can make some CAD drawings if needed.  Attached File Attached File Attached FileAnyone have a clue what rings these are? I have the riser, but need direction on the rings. Looks to be the same ones on the EBR behind it. |
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Posted: 10/8/2021 3:27:31 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By USMCSGT0331: This is a SAM-R/SDM-R clone thread, why are you asking for carbine and Gemtech pics here? Let's not clutter this thread with stuff that doesn't belong here. The reason there's so many bare muzzles is because only a handful of very late SAM-R's ever used an NT4 silencer. Since there were so few used, photos of them are pretty rare. Sorry - thought this was a SAM-R photo and discussion thread, not just for modern clones. I agree photos are rare, as there were only 52 of the early carbines that were equipped with HALO suppressors to start with, and any of the DARPA/USMC experiment ones. IIRC that was a Warfighting Lab project in that family of carbines. If I've got some nomenclature wrong and hopped into the wrong thread, my apologies. Figured it was close enough to the topic at hand and found myself curious if any photos had surfaced. The carbines would have been from this time period: 
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Posted: 10/8/2021 3:39:18 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CMCctx: Anyone have a clue what rings these are? I have the riser, but need direction on the rings. Looks to be the same ones on the EBR behind it. |
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Posted: 10/8/2021 6:25:37 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kel: Sorry - thought this was a SAM-R photo and discussion thread, not just for modern clones. I agree photos are rare, as there were only 52 of the early carbines that were equipped with HALO suppressors to start with, and any of the DARPA/USMC experiment ones. IIRC that was a Warfighting Lab project in that family of carbines. If I've got some nomenclature wrong and hopped into the wrong thread, my apologies. Figured it was close enough to the topic at hand and found myself curious if any photos had surfaced. The carbines would have been from this time period: https://i.imgur.com/KYF3nHh.png That's some great info on a rarely seen USMC variation. Your best bet is to start a thread on this specific set-up, that way we can get a parts list, photos and information on these rifles. My wallet hates you now that I've added this rifle/silencer to my clone build list, lol |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/11/2021 12:34:26 PM EST
[#26]
Just needs a proper optic (but the Vari-X III 2.5-8 will do in the meantime), Badger rings, OG railed gas block, bipod with direct mount sling stud, and some older KAC sights. Other than that we are well on our way to the OG SAM-R. I say "other than that" like those are the easy parts to get
 I almost gave up hope ever using this A.R.M.S. #5 riser, but good thing I just stashed it away.   
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Posted: 10/21/2021 8:31:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: ringer706]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: The TRADOC Warfighting Experiment funded 450 original rifles starting with 1-15 Infantry, then the entire 3rd Brigade of 3rd Infantry Division. That was extended again for 3ID attachments from 4ID at Fort Carson. TRADOC paid for the barrels, Daniel rails, a KAC trigger (Tank and Automotive Command safety-certified for Army and USASOC/NAVSPECWAR SPRs -- Geisseles had not yet been Crane-certified for the USSOCOM SOPMOD Kit), Harris bipod and pic-rail attachment, GG&G side sling block, and 1,000 rounds of Black Hills 77s per rifle. Units were to provide their own ACOGs and Matechs. Douglas barrel blanks were cut, chambered, and threaded by Gene Barnett, a long-time friend of the AMU who also did generations worth of M21 sniper rifle barrels for us. Fluting was definitely done on the AMU's CNC lathes -- those things ran non-stop for weeks during duty hours. We installed the barrel extensions, drilled the gas port holes, milled the sight screw flats, and did final assembly and test-fire. Each SDM-R was held to the same precision standard as our across-the-course National Match M16s (five groups of ten shots of Black Hills 77 Match Kings fired from a mechanical rest. Each group at 300 Meters was-is required to be at 1-MOA or smaller). I think the final finish was Krylon high temperature grill paint from a rattle-can, or something like that -- mundane, common, cheap, and available. 3rd ID got a really good precision capability, quick, with enough time for training and quals before deploying. Jim Sutton's (the host for the Shooting USA TV show on Outdoor Channel) son went through the USAMU DM course as a Joe before deploying. I’ve seen it referenced before that the SDM-Rs came with rifle and not M4 extensions, is that correct? Also, what upper receivers were used when building these up? It seems common for commercial brand flat top uppers to have no M4 ramps in the early ‘00s, but did Colt/FN/Armalite/etc. make uppers in that configuration as well? |
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Posted: 10/28/2021 1:02:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: orpheus762x51]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By orpheus762x51: James of War Machine LLC (War Block) has agreed to create a one off PWS/prototype SAM-R gas block. It would be easier for him and cheaper per unit if multiples are made. If you're interested, DM me and I'll put you in touch with him. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/305821/Screenshot_20211007-162525_Drive_jpg-2121558.JPG Slight update on this. I messaged the interested users for contact info to get for James to have a rough count. If I missed you, please let me know. Hopefully we will have some word soon on final pricing and ETA on the PWS repro block. |
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Posted: 10/28/2021 9:17:35 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By orpheus762x51: Slight update on this. I messaged the following users for contact info to get for James to have a rough count: accurate CMCctx ringer706 5pt56 Acetomco TheFlyingNerd41 If I missed you, please let me know. Hopefully we will have some word soon on final pricing and ETA on the PWS repro block. Thank you for organizing this! Much appreciated. |
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Posted: 10/28/2021 10:01:13 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ringer706: I’ve seen it referenced before that the SDM-Rs came with rifle and not M4 extensions, is that correct? Also, what upper receivers were used when building these up? It seems common for commercial brand flat top uppers to have no M4 ramps in the early ‘00s, but did Colt/FN/Armalite/etc. make uppers in that configuration as well? |
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Posted: 10/28/2021 10:11:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: Sinister]
[#31]
Originally Posted By USMCSGT0331: Originally Posted By PappyM3: I'll dig through the other platoons' pictures to see if there are any to share of the SDM-R in action. I loved that gun and the only thing keeping me from cloning it is that damned Daniel Defense handguard. The Larue 12" picatinny is close, but just not right. A few years ago I found myself on the same firing point at Camp Perry with Gunner Davis, the (now-retired) Precision Weapons Battalion Master Warrant Officer and one of the Marine SAM-R development gurus. He and I got to talking about the similarities between the SAM-R / SDMR, and he said if he built them today he'd use the Larue rail. I agreed since Daniel Defense discontinued their legacy M4-series with the rail ring for the new MK-18 style with multiple bolts. At the time we started building them in 2005, KAC rifle-length free-floats were simply too hard to find and too expensive. |
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Posted: 10/29/2021 7:49:54 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 5pt56: Thank you for organizing this! Much appreciated. My pleasure. I try to share the wealth on efforts like this, and definitely don't mind helping out other guys who won't accept "it's discontinued/we don't make that" as an answer. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 12/1/2021 6:01:19 PM EST
[#33]
Can someone eith certainty say which KAC rear site was used.Eas it the Micro USMC marked version or the large wheel 200-600 version
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Posted: 12/1/2021 6:50:03 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By forceman: Can someone eith certainty say which KAC rear site was used.Eas it the Micro USMC marked version or the large wheel 200-600 version It's the KAC 98474 200-600m rear sight |
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USA
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Posted: 12/1/2021 8:18:34 PM EST
[#35]
Does anyone know that there’s yet another SAMR variant out there..? A very unique combination of parts, and the KAC fans should enjoy. I’ve sat on it for a while, hoping I’d maybe put together a clone of it. But if someone wants to post it, email me. I don’t have picture abilities, and not setting up an account.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/2/2021 11:09:48 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By j-dubya1: Does anyone know that there’s yet another SAMR variant out there..? A very unique combination of parts, and the KAC fans should enjoy. I’ve sat on it for a while, hoping I’d maybe put together a clone of it. But if someone wants to post it, email me. I don’t have picture abilities, and not setting up an account. 
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USA
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Posted: 2/23/2022 2:32:17 PM EST
[#37]
I may have missed it but is it known who produced the SDM-R barrels? In other words..who chambered, contoured, fluted the douglas blanks?
Are there any known drawings (prints) of the SDM-R and/or SAM-R barrel, showing contour and fluting specs etc. ? I've searched for the answer to both questions and came up empty handed. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2022 3:04:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: CMCctx]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Veprz: I may have missed it but is it known who produced the SDM-R barrels? In other words..who chambered, contoured, fluted the douglas blanks? Are there any known drawings (prints) of the SDM-R and/or SAM-R barrel, showing contour and fluting specs etc. ? I've searched for the answer to both questions and came up empty handed. I'm fairly certain that the SAM-R was Kreiger barrel Edit: per CLE's website 1″ under the handguard, .750 gas block diameter and 740 at the muzzle. Mine is perfect other than the fact that it's an Obermeyer blank turned by Bill Wylde. I can live with that difference for that kind of lineage 
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2022 3:58:55 PM EST
[#39]
i had hands on 2 SAM-R uppers, ans yep, kreiger 1" at the upper, thickkk bois
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2022 4:03:22 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HaveBlue83: i had hands on 2 SAM-R uppers, ans yep, kreiger 1" at the upper, thickkk bois Oddly enough you don't feel the weight like you'd imagine. Definitely heavier than other setups, but the way they're shot it's no big deal. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/23/2022 6:10:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: Veprz]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CMCctx: I'm fairly certain that the SAM-R was Kreiger barrel Edit: per CLE's website 1″ under the handguard, .750 gas block diameter and 740 at the muzzle. Mine is perfect other than the fact that it's an Obermeyer blank turned by Bill Wylde. I can live with that difference for that kind of lineage Yes the SAM-R barrel evidently was a Krieger blank finished by CLE, but the info I have seen on the SDM-R was that they used Douglas blanks. Who performed the contouring, chambering and fluting of the SDM-R barrels? Also the SDM-R drawings/prints should show specifics like number of flutes, spacing of flutes, depth of flutes and exact start and stop locations for the flutes, any additional changes in diameter along the length of the barrel, radiuses etc. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2022 6:15:22 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Veprz: Yes the SAM-R barrel evidently was a Krieger blank finished by CLE, but the info I have seen on the SDM-R was that they used Douglas blanks. Who performed the contouring, chambering and fluting of the SDM-R barrels? Also the SDM-R drawings/prints should show specifics like number of flutes, spacing of flutes, depth of flutes and exact start and stop locations for the flutes, any additional changes in diameter along the length of the barrel, radiuses etc. I've always assumed that it was either WOA or CLE, but have also wondered who made the SDM-R barrels, including the 82nd Airborne versions. Also never been able to find that out. |
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Posted: 2/23/2022 6:33:44 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By forceman: Can someone eith certainty say which KAC rear site was used.Eas it the Micro USMC marked version or the large wheel 200-600 version The "micro" sights weren't available yet when the SAM/SDM rifles were being issued.  ... |
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Posted: 2/23/2022 6:55:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: Sinister]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Heavy655: I've always assumed that it was either WOA or CLE, but have also wondered who made the SDM-R barrels, including the 82nd Airborne versions. Also never been able to find that out. For the big order the USAMU Shop had Gene Barnett (same fella who did many of our M14 barrels) cut and profile Douglas blanks. We would flute, chamber, crown, and thread at the AMU. We only made three M4 prototypes (one for the 82d, one for the 101st, and one for reference). If you want a copy of the barrels we made, both Frank White at Compass Lake and John Holliger at White Oak make really close copies. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/23/2022 7:03:02 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: The first rifles for 1-15 Infantry were made with whatever premium barrels we had in supply (Obermyer, Krieger, Lothar Walther, Douglas, whatever was on the shelf). For the big order the USAMU Shop had Gene Barnett (same fella who did many of our M14 barrels) cut and profile Douglas blanks. We would flute, chamber, crown, and thread at the AMU. We only made three M4 prototypes (one for the 82d, one for the 101st, and one for reference). If you want a copy of the barrels we made, both Frank White at Compass Lake and John Holliger at White Oak make really close copies. Well that is excellent info, thank you! So the fluting was performed on blanks already on hand, and therefore very likely not final lapped at the blank manufacturers facility after contouring and fluting? Would that be correct? Did you note any loss of performance (precision, consistency etc.) after fluting? Thank you. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2022 7:07:48 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: The first rifles for 1-15 Infantry were made with whatever premium barrels we had in supply (Obermyer, Krieger, Lothar Walther, Douglas, whatever was on the shelf). For the big order the USAMU Shop had Gene Barnett (same fella who did many of our M14 barrels) cut and profile Douglas blanks. We would flute, chamber, crown, and thread at the AMU. We only made three M4 prototypes (one for the 82d, one for the 101st, and one for reference). If you want a copy of the barrels we made, both Frank White at Compass Lake and John Holliger at White Oak make really close copies. Thank you for the history lesson! First I've learned of Lothar Walther being used in any capacity as well. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2022 8:07:25 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CMCctx: Oddly enough you don't feel the weight like you'd imagine. Definitely heavier than other setups, but the way they're shot it's no big deal. |
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Posted: 2/23/2022 8:31:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: Sinister]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Veprz: Did you note any loss of performance (precision, consistency etc.) after fluting? Remember, for us, Lothar Walther was just up the road from Benning outside of Atlanta. Fairly easy for us to make visits or call. Here's an Infantry magazine article about the DM rifle (pages 49-51): P. 49 - 51 USAMU support |
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USA
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Posted: 2/23/2022 9:07:38 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: I honestly don't remember and would have to dig through old e-mails on disc. I'm fairly sure the guys wouldn't have released them to go to war if they didn't group -- their reputation rode on it. The service rifle standard was under a minute at 300 Meters. Remember, for us, Lothar Walther was just up the road from Benning outside of Atlanta. Fairly easy for us to make visits or call. Here's an Infantry magazine article about the DM rifle (pages 49-51): P. 49 - 51 USAMU support Makes sense. Thank you, the info is very helpful! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/23/2022 9:51:35 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sinister: The first rifles for 1-15 Infantry were made with whatever premium barrels we had in supply (Obermyer, Krieger, Lothar Walther, Douglas, whatever was on the shelf). For the big order the USAMU Shop had Gene Barnett (same fella who did many of our M14 barrels) cut and profile Douglas blanks. We would flute, chamber, crown, and thread at the AMU. We only made three M4 prototypes (one for the 82d, one for the 101st, and one for reference). If you want a copy of the barrels we made, both Frank White at Compass Lake and John Holliger at White Oak make really close copies. @Sinister please don't make me track down a DD MR 12.0 |
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